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Twin 160's - since you can never have too many projects
- Thread starter EzPete
- Start date
Yeah, the angle of the levers on the brake panel looks too vertical as they sit, one tooth should do it.
Looking really good brother.
Looking really good brother.
Grumpybugger
Veteran Member
Really nice work Pete. Looks awesome.
mike in idaho
Veteran Member
That lower toolbox bolt is actually a long stud, threads sticking out on both sides to retain the air cleaner covers. Part # 90157222000 . A 6mm nut and flat washer on either side to retain the toolbox followed by a nut, flat washer and a lock washer to hold the tab on the air cleaner cover.
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Yeah, at $20+Shipping I went with a screw for now. There's a couple of things that if I wanted to push another $500 or so into the pot could make it a bit nicer. (New front fender, headlight trim ring, that bolt, etc.)
Wow, looks really good and all this in only 4 months!
My thoughts exactly, I've been working on my drag bike project for over 6 years....
Now I know how much time I used to waste drinking!
PugMug
Veteran Member
Really nice work! Maybe you mentioned it earlier and I missed it, but I was curious what handlebars you've got on the bike?
Argh. I have gremlins.
Starter bench tested fine. Won’t fire on the bike. Got 12.6 volts at the starter measured from negative terminal of the battery to the stud on the starter when the starter button is depressed.
Headlight - same deal, although I’m only seeing 12.2 there, so it’s leaking somewhere. High beam indicator also not working.
Tailight. Same. Voltage to the socket - no light. This one feels like the bulb doesn’t lock into place properly though.
LED upgrade for the Speedo lights and neutral indicator looks great.
Oh well. Needed something to do while the seat cover migrates across the globe.
Starter bench tested fine. Won’t fire on the bike. Got 12.6 volts at the starter measured from negative terminal of the battery to the stud on the starter when the starter button is depressed.
Headlight - same deal, although I’m only seeing 12.2 there, so it’s leaking somewhere. High beam indicator also not working.
Tailight. Same. Voltage to the socket - no light. This one feels like the bulb doesn’t lock into place properly though.
LED upgrade for the Speedo lights and neutral indicator looks great.
Oh well. Needed something to do while the seat cover migrates across the globe.
Grounds all good everywhere, even the heavy ones like engine mounts?
Yeah. I added a couple since I needed to ground the rec/reg anyway. All voltages check out back to the negative battery terminal so there should be a clean path to ground (the leaky circuit does need to be checked out on both sides - waiting for the heater to do its thing right now before going back out there.
The starter I’m betting on a rebuild. Headlight and taillight are odd ducks though.
Oh. And having replaced all of my other bikes with EI’s, I completely left the condenser out of the equation - had to laugh at myself on that one.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Have you tried jumping the starter directly from the positive post on the battery to the connection on the starter with jumper cables or heavy wire? That should help eliminate if it is the negative or positive side that has a bad connection assuming the starter is working properly.
I haven’t tried that. Just checked if it was getting 12+ at the post - that should be basically the equivalent? Well, unless there’s an amperage drop I guess. Time to rig up an 8ga jumper and see.
Welp. No dice on the jumper. Looks like the starter is coming out. I did manage to get a disdainful groan out of it after charging the battery to 13.3 - so I’m betting on brushes and internal contacts.
Really wish the starter design in these bikes was like the CX/GL with a gear drive. Taking the side panel, shift lever, etc is a real pain without dropping the exhaust.
Looks like I’ll be replacing the bulb socket as well. I measured the pins on the 1157 bulb, tried a few different versions - everything says it should snug in exact right, it just simply won’t turn in its “slots” far enough to engage the contacts.
Little stuff. Always fun.
Spokes
Veteran Member
My bet is old dried out grease in the starter gearbox and bushings as well as dirty contacts. Be aware that you need a grade 2 grease for the starter and not too much at that.
I still have 1/4lb of Krytox GPL 295 grease from the bearing plant (I'm a retired Site/Chemical Manager, Koyo Needle bearing). Krytox GPL 295 is the forever grease used in Bosch alternator and starter needle bearings. You just need a light thimble full brushed on gears and contact surfaces.
I can send you an ounce if interested. (Google pricing of Krytox GPL 225 and you will be stunned at the cost of this fluorinated grease) Otherwise, a good grade #2 grease should work.
Gregg
Member
I had a 1966 CB160 that had a seized lower connecting rod bearing. I wanted to replace the bearing. The Honda Shop mechanic told me that getting the crank apart is hard enough but to reassemble it required a special jig that only the factory has. I have seen the crankshaft parts on CSML and wondered why they would sell something that the average guy cannot use.Looking good there Pete.
I did PM message Graham Curtis in England about the CL160 crankshaft and the internal sludge traps. He sent me a bunch of pictures and info on the CL160 crank. There are extensive sludge traps in there just like the other CB450 DOHC and CL77 cranks. As suspected you cannot clean the cranks without pressing them apart for a proper cleaning. It is beyond my skill level and you need at least a 5 ton press and some metal blocks to set up for the operation.
I feel I have got something fluid wise going through the journals to the conn rod big ends and hopefully it will suffice.
There is a difference between shop procedure and how you can actually do things. Just look at "special tool # whatever" in every maintenance manual. To reassemble the multipiece crank, you need a press and a scheme to keep the counterweights and key way(s) aligned. This would require you to build your jig before you take it all apart.
Meant to answer this earlier. They’re apparently an aftermarket set from the late 70’s as far as I can tell. I know the bike was last on the road in 81 so that would track. There’s also (or was) some painted over damage from a lay down on the right side so I imagine they were replacements for this.
They seem to have a bit more rake than the stock bars, and may be a hair wider and taller.
Unfortunately, they weren’t drilled so I had to carve my way through that pre-chineseum steel, but I like the feel. I’ve was meaning to measure them out to see what a modern comp would be to replicate for the other one - but that was before the CMX front end somehow jumped onto the frame to taunt me.
mike in idaho
Veteran Member
Those scrambler bars are likely CL77 pieces, they weren't drilled for wires at the factory. The giveaway is the slightly larger diameter cross brace, on the CL77.
My bad. I was talking about the ones on the red bike. The scrambler style from the orange bike I’ve just got shoved on the rack.
Got the heater fired up enough to bring the shop to “manageable”. Got the taillight sorted out. Turns out the rubber seal around the bulb had just shrunk and hardened to the point the bulb just wouldn’t seat all the way. Little heat gun action and the LED dropped right in.
Popped the starter off. Not as easy of a fix, unfortunately.
Looks like the primary positive contact for the brush was just semi clamped to the actual supply, so that needs to get soldered back in place.
Brushes were also worn. They weren’t sliding real well and likely bound at some point.
While they could probably get reused after cleaning everything. It’s one of those “I’m here so I might as well” $30 items that gradually adds up. Replacements on order.
The funny thing was if you remove load altogether and hit the button, it’ll actually spin - just not enough juice to kick the engine over.
Popped the starter off. Not as easy of a fix, unfortunately.
Looks like the primary positive contact for the brush was just semi clamped to the actual supply, so that needs to get soldered back in place.
Brushes were also worn. They weren’t sliding real well and likely bound at some point.
While they could probably get reused after cleaning everything. It’s one of those “I’m here so I might as well” $30 items that gradually adds up. Replacements on order.
The funny thing was if you remove load altogether and hit the button, it’ll actually spin - just not enough juice to kick the engine over.
You know those days when you’re better off not trying to piecemeal projects together because your ADHD brain might get stuck somewhere else?
That’ll teach me to bounce between testing electrical, repairing the starter motor and replacing the washing machine agitator in the same time block.
Went out to make sure the heater was off. Saw the dim glowing light of the neutral indicator.
Virtual walk of shame back to 4into1…
That’ll teach me to bounce between testing electrical, repairing the starter motor and replacing the washing machine agitator in the same time block.
Went out to make sure the heater was off. Saw the dim glowing light of the neutral indicator.
Virtual walk of shame back to 4into1…
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NOS PartsNow order came in today while I was at the office.
Got excited to looking forward to at least hearing it crank.
… I guess there’s always next week. Ugh. Oh well, coil should be here at the same time so guess we’re just doing it all at once.
Got excited to looking forward to at least hearing it crank.
… I guess there’s always next week. Ugh. Oh well, coil should be here at the same time so guess we’re just doing it all at once.
Hmm, set of one.
PugMug
Veteran Member
Ugh- that's a bummer. Hopefully they get that sorted asap...
To NPN’s credit, they were very quick to acknowledge the mistake and correct it this morning. Sent them an email last night, had the shipping confirmation and the “whoops” email by 9AM.
Well. Got the first fire out of the way… as per the usual, there’s issues to tackle.
Definitely running on just the left in the video. Won’t hold idle (which is why video sucks, had to hold the throttle), right header was cold - although it did start firing (albeit kind of poorly - popping, etc) after a few seconds of higher RPM. So I still need to troubleshoot that. Almost certain it’s a fuel delivery issue.
Of greater head scratching is this. Had a fair oil leak that I couldn’t pinpoint right away
That’s not camera angle warpage. Starter is at a cockeyed angle - almost like it needs a spacer between the crankcase and the mounting tab to square it up. That’s with a brand new oring as well - oil
Is seeping past there then dripping off the step bar.
Fun times
Hmm. Imgur is fighting me here on the video. Let’s try YouTube.
Definitely running on just the left in the video. Won’t hold idle (which is why video sucks, had to hold the throttle), right header was cold - although it did start firing (albeit kind of poorly - popping, etc) after a few seconds of higher RPM. So I still need to troubleshoot that. Almost certain it’s a fuel delivery issue.
Of greater head scratching is this. Had a fair oil leak that I couldn’t pinpoint right away
That’s not camera angle warpage. Starter is at a cockeyed angle - almost like it needs a spacer between the crankcase and the mounting tab to square it up. That’s with a brand new oring as well - oil
Is seeping past there then dripping off the step bar.
Fun times
Hmm. Imgur is fighting me here on the video. Let’s try YouTube.
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Well. Oil leak solved by placing a washer between the crankcase and the starter mounting tab. Truly bizarre, so the EBay dig will commence for a replacement - something ain't right with this one.
Carbs on the other hand... May have been too far gone to be serviceable, I'll be giving them a very extended soak while I'm out of town the next couple of days, but it looks like an Ebay kind of week. Seems like these salvage projects always like to find one area to really fight you on.
Carbs on the other hand... May have been too far gone to be serviceable, I'll be giving them a very extended soak while I'm out of town the next couple of days, but it looks like an Ebay kind of week. Seems like these salvage projects always like to find one area to really fight you on.
With a set of carb bodies in my eBay cart, I gave this right one another go. Two days of time in the soak, flushed and cleaned every passage. Turns out some yahoo completely missed the fact that the slow jet was completely obstructed and that the float pin wasn’t springing.
Took quite a while with some single strand copper wire and cleared the jets, got the float pin and seat sealing again, reset float height and it’s getting fuel through. It’s a little bit late for a real running test, so that’ll wait until tomorrow.
Took quite a while with some single strand copper wire and cleared the jets, got the float pin and seat sealing again, reset float height and it’s getting fuel through. It’s a little bit late for a real running test, so that’ll wait until tomorrow.
That same yahoo shows up and works at my house pretty often!
Man, that yahoo sure gets around!That same yahoo shows up and works at my house pretty often!
Yeah - I need to have a chat with that guy - he put the slide in backwards on the carb as well.That same yahoo shows up and works at my house pretty often!
Pete,
A little late here ........ yet Joe has a set of CB160 carbs I believe, as a parts set. The last time I saw them they were mostly compete IIRC. If you need some parts or bodies I can dig into it further. Joe will likely sell them cheap as they are and shipping would be semi costly around $50.00 I would think to Texas.
Looks like the second round of cleaning got the right carb in line. It fires right away with no choke now (probably means I’m running a bit rich), both are sounding pretty good.
I didn’t have the IV elevated enough since the bowls had been leaking as well so you can hear it start to kind of run dry near the end.
Did have another oil leak pop its head up - somewhere between the left crankcase cover and the case. Looks like that cover is coming off again - seems to be fairly low but it leaks inside the front sprocket area.
Sounds pretty good, pipes sound nice too so they must be in good shape.
Did you put some Hondabond around the alternator wiring grommet in the cover? That's a usual spot when all the seals have been replaced, that grommet is probably hard as a brick at this age.
That’s the first thing I thought of as well. It “feels” like the leak is below that point, but it’s the likely culprit. You’re right though, it’s essentially plastic and has probably shrunk so I’ll need a bit of a heavier layer there - it’s just hard to police what could get squeezed off into the interior side of that case there so I’m always a little tentative.
The oil leak was 100% the now-plastic grommet. Gave it a better coat of Hondabond, let that dry for a bit and did a little touch on the case and gasket there. Seems to be solved.
Of course, now the damn thing decides it’s just not going to start - got spark, plugs are wet, nothing from either side.
Always something
Of course, now the damn thing decides it’s just not going to start - got spark, plugs are wet, nothing from either side.
Always something
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You have been bitten by a few garage gremlins lately. I have confidence you will prevail, this ain't your first rodeo.
This is one that has me really perplexed. Probably time to start at the beginning, set timing, valves new plugs, set floats and start from scratch.
It is strange to be sure. And knowing you by this point, I'm sure you've already checked the usual and common possibilities. Battery voltage perhaps?
Yeah. Thought battery yesterday and left it on the charger all night. Right cylinder fires instantly.
Going to let everything cool down for a bit here and try again later
And I know it wasn't at too high a rate that you cooked it.
Yes fun! But also provides many opportunities for ….critical thinking skills, meticulous execution , redoing the same thing four times, starring in disbelief, mumbling under breath, cursing out loud when alone and that’s just my short list!
. Hang in there it’s gonna be fun to ride soon!!
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Nah. It’s a trickle setup - at peak it can put out .3-.4 amps. Anything electrical would present on both cylinders with a single coil.
It has to be something carb related. I’m trying to find a cutaway view to see if there’s an internal passage that I’m missing that could be clogged.
Well, I'm not so sure it wouldn't affect the spark strength to both plugs despite it being a twin lead coil, I suppose it could make both weak or the "better" path to ground might get the lion's share of available voltage. But I haven't had a 360° crankshaft twin since 1971 either, so it's conjecture on my part.
Well. I am absolutely baffled here.
First start attempt, finally fires and only runs on left cylinder.
Thursday night, second start attempt it runs on both, but leaking oil from the stator-side cover.
Saturday, Fix that leak… touching nothing else. No start. Clean carbs again. Adjust floats again. Runs only on right cylinder.
Compression hasn’t changed.
Spark on both sides.
Timing is nuts on
I’ve swapped plugs and leads side to side to side.
Every jet and passageway on both carbs is 100 to include passing a single strand of copper wire through the bowl vent line to rule out a vacuum lock.
Doesn’t matter the throttle position left isn’t firing.
I can’t figure out what could be missing or off or change suddenly like that.
First start attempt, finally fires and only runs on left cylinder.
Thursday night, second start attempt it runs on both, but leaking oil from the stator-side cover.
Saturday, Fix that leak… touching nothing else. No start. Clean carbs again. Adjust floats again. Runs only on right cylinder.
Compression hasn’t changed.
Spark on both sides.
Timing is nuts on
I’ve swapped plugs and leads side to side to side.
Every jet and passageway on both carbs is 100 to include passing a single strand of copper wire through the bowl vent line to rule out a vacuum lock.
Doesn’t matter the throttle position left isn’t firing.
I can’t figure out what could be missing or off or change suddenly like that.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Have you confirmed your getting good flow from the petcock and you don't have a sticking float or needle? I was having similar issue and swapping floats for old ones seemed to resolve it.
Yeah. Running on the external tank bowl fills.