Mousetown, my own 73 CL350

Here is my HM345 exhaust that I'm pretty sure was original to the bike. Yes Bill, it does have an upper muffler drain pipe with attached ~8" of hose, assumably so it doesn't drip on the lower muffler, which only has a simple drain hole.

The pipes have a satin finish, which may have been sandblasted but the chrome seems intact and the cheap black paint comes off easy with a wire wheel. I don't see any rust but maybe that is why it was blasted, or they just wanted to paint it and hoped that would make it stick better. IDK.

Both mufflers have several patches welded (fairly well) even the tailpipes show repair. I will remove all the paint and think the satin look will be fine.

At least all the clamps and brackets are there. It only had one heat shield, the upper one (I accidently bought another of the same when trying to get the missing ones).

There was a loose broken partial baffle rattling inside the lower muffler which I was able to snag and collapse then withdraw (it took awhile). Kind of like building a ship in a bottle, except in reverse, wrecking and removing the ship.
KXcz26w.jpg

E7j33X5.jpg

ZhZbxnd.jpg



I was thinking of using an old plumber's drain snake with some kind of wire brush to run the interior lengths of the pipes and then perhaps a vinegar enema of the mufflers.
Hoping for no hidden surprises, but this is Mousetown after all.
 
It would be interesting to invent a pipe cleaner with a piece of plumber's snake at each end and a wire brush in the middle, so you could run one snake through and then pull the wire brush back and forth in the pipe. I guess it would take two people. Like a giant piece of dental floss. Probably not worth the effort. I can say, from personal experience, it would be smart to just run a snake through the pipe to be sure there's nothing blocking the way.
 
wentwest said:
It would be interesting to invent a pipe cleaner with a piece of plumber's snake at each end and a wire brush in the middle, so you could run one snake through and then pull the wire brush back and forth in the pipe. I guess it would take two people. Like a giant piece of dental floss. Probably not worth the effort. I can say, from personal experience, it would be smart to just run a snake through the pipe to be sure there's nothing blocking the way.
Click to expand...
Except for the impassable muffler on the one pipe, that is kind of what I was thinking. After a shooting session I use a bore snake (a nylon rope with a weight on one end and an embedded bronze bristled cylindrical brush), even though a rigid cleaning rod works well on a straight bore, but a curvy exhaust needs some kind of snake. If my plumber's snake doesn't work, I'll use some 1/4" steel cable with a frayed end for a brush in my drill.

Edit: There really shouldn't be that much carbon in there to actually cause a problem but a quick pass through a couple times will give me peace of mind and remove any vermin. o_O
I did once open up a completely plugged heat riser tube (10-15mm?) on an air cooled VW intake manifold that made for much better cold weather operation.
 
Last edited:
ballbearian said:
That makes sense even with steel rims and stock tyre sizes. Pretty slim pickens on rims in 36 hole 2.15x18, none at 4into1.
Maybe I'm starting to get an eye for race wheels, that bike above looks good wheel-wise.
I was listening to this Dutch guy talking about his 50cc racer and they go for the skinniest tyre/rim they can find but hey, it's just a notch or two above bicycle speeds. :D
Click to expand...
Mikes XS has them. They are out of stock right now. You may want to contact them and see if they are going to restock. The XS650 uses the same size and spoke number as Honda. Check out my post on my restoration about the re-lacing of my wheels here:
Relacing Rear Wheel

The Wheels look great. I also got spokes from Buchanan's in Cal. They were Stainless so a little pricey, but they stay shiny and don't rust.
 
Mydlyfkryzis said:
I also got spokes from Buchanan's in Cal. They were Stainless so a little pricey,
Click to expand...
You made a great thread there and hopefully will inspire others to give relacing a go. I got to admit just a bit of jealousy for Buchanan's spokes (maybe next time). We called them single butted, as opposed to straight gauge in bicycle speak.
I did just order 2 WM style 1.85 silver alloys from 4into1 (cheap), for a future set for my K0. If Mike's, or someone gets in some 2.15 in WM, not H style, I'd do it for the rear wheel. The H style is actually cooler, IMO, but I'd rather not mix WM and H on the same bike, someone may get the impression I lack vanity and am just pragmatic. :ROFLMAO:
 
My spokes were "Swaged" they are 8 gauge in the center, 9 gauge towards the rim. That's how the stock spokes were on my CB360t. At the time, the total cost for the spokes for one wheel was $108. That was more than the cost of the wheel. Wheels were on sale for $69 each and free shipping. The 2.15 wide rears gave a better profile to the stock 3:50x18 tires. As I said in the that thread, the bike really handles noticeably better with that setup.
 
Mydlyfkryzis said:
My spokes were "Swaged" they are 8 gauge in the center, 9 gauge towards the rim. That's how the stock spokes were on my CB360t. At the time, the total cost for the spokes for one wheel was $108. That was more than the cost of the wheel. Wheels were on sale for $69 each and free shipping. The 2.15 wide rears gave a better profile to the stock 3:50x18 tires. As I said in the that thread, the bike really handles noticeably better with that setup.
Click to expand...
Ok, 'swaged' in motorcycle speak but 'single butted' in bicycle speak, I can't help it, I was a shop monkey for 20 years.
Actually, the prices you paid are reasonable, even good, with the free shipping and great quality. I hate to admit that the spokes for this bike cost about $90 with shipping from Bangkok.
The 2.15 with a 3.50 makes sense and I'm glad to hear your positive experience on that.
I was reluctant to accept the fat rim logic and can only plead off road wheel influence (a different animal there), but I see the light. (y)
 
Last edited:
Filter tins painted and new filters test fitted. I wished I'd bought the filters from Kevin at Srambler, he was cheaper than these from ebay, they are probably very similar. The retroCB side covers need painted and I'm wondering if the Duplicolor I used on the CB160 will match ok with the Hawaiian Pacific Blue of the original paint on the tank.
When I bought this bike, it had no carbs, so I bought a nasty complete pair on ebay for kinda cheap. There wasn't much available then but they were comeplete. I found a couple issues and back-burnered them for a while. The stuck small emulsion tube and the broken off tip of the idle jet in the worst side, right side, have been overcome but the throat is fairly pitted. Next is to try cleaning up the throat and blow all the passages. I hope I can save this right side 722 body.
An63NcG.jpg

wb0qyTa.jpg

4jVm306.jpg




I found this green ground pigtail in that must've fallen into the carb boxes and can't remember where it's from. Seems like a Honda production afterthought, maybe used to fit turn signals to a bike that came without.
bjLifywm.jpg
 
ballbearian said:
I found this green ground pigtail in that must've fallen into the carb boxes and can't remember where it's from. Seems like a Honda production afterthought, maybe used to fit turn signals to a bike that came without.
Click to expand...
If it was a production afterthought, it was fairly prevalent. I remember seeing these in some of the new bikes I assembled out of the crate back in the day, and my CB350K1 has one also. Mine was plugged into one of the grounds that come from a sheet metal tab spot-welded to a mounting nut for the headlight case.
 
ballbearian said:
Filter tins painted and new filters test fitted. I wished I'd bought the filters from Kevin at Srambler, he was cheaper than these from ebay, they are probably very similar. The retroCB side covers need painted and I'm wondering if the Duplicolor I used on the CB160 will match ok with the Hawaiian Pacific Blue of the original paint on the tank.
When I bought this bike, it had no carbs, so I bought a nasty complete pair on ebay for kinda cheap. There wasn't much available then but they were comeplete. I found a couple issues and back-burnered them for a while. The stuck small emulsion tube and the broken off tip of the idle jet in the worst side, right side, have been overcome but the throat is fairly pitted. Next is to try cleaning up the throat and blow all the passages. I hope I can save this right side 722 body.
An63NcG.jpg

wb0qyTa.jpg

4jVm306.jpg




I found this green ground pigtail in that must've fallen into the carb boxes and can't remember where it's from. Seems like a Honda production afterthought, maybe used to fit turn signals to a bike that came without.
bjLifywm.jpg
Click to expand...


YIKES, that carb body!

I bet I have a 722a body in my collection that you can have. Just let me know and I will take a look.

I have accumulated quite a collection of the 3d and 722a carbs and parts.
 
ausman1000 said:
YIKES, that carb body!

I bet I have a 722a body in my collection that you can have. Just let me know and I will take a look.

I have accumulated quite a collection of the 3d and 722a carbs and parts.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I do love a 'lost cause' however, I may have to cry uncle on this, but not yet.
 
ballbearian said:
Thanks. I do love a 'lost cause' however, I may have to cry uncle on this, but not yet.
Click to expand...
I have already cried uncle on your behalf. Good lord man, please let me know when you have come to your senses. Only then will I pull out the box that is inscribed "carb bodies" ... for a looksee!

carb b.jpg

Yes, they are the cheap ones from Target :ROFLMAO:
 
A true friend will harsh your mellow when you're humming the Siren's song of cheap parts.

I'd come to my senses, if I could find them :ROFLMAO: . My garage is my life and it's a mess, I may have misplaced them, if I ever had them. Is there a part number for that?
Ufsqg8am.jpg
jS0zQ7Lm.jpg
02qtdBlm.jpg
enlarge this 3rd pic for pothole close up.


It's like this:
I find this wallflower at the dance. Maybe she'll clean up nice at the House of Butte-tay. How will she dance, is the question? Just because she's coyote ugly, she may dance like a Dervish, or maybe she'll have some weird behaviors. Hmmm.

I may need a Target intervention, even if that dog driving the truck looks psycho.
 
ballbearian said:
A true friend will harsh your mellow when you're humming the Siren's song of cheap parts.

I'd come to my senses, if I could find them :ROFLMAO: . My garage is my life and it's a mess, I may have misplaced them, if I ever had them. Is there a part number for that?
Ufsqg8am.jpg
jS0zQ7Lm.jpg
02qtdBlm.jpg
enlarge this 3rd pic for pothole close up.


It's like this:
I find this wallflower at the dance. Maybe she'll clean up nice at the House of Butte-tay. How will she dance, is the question? Just because she's coyote ugly, she may dance like a Dervish, or maybe she'll have some weird behaviors. Hmmm.

I may need a Target intervention, even if that dog driving the truck looks psycho.
Click to expand...
Yes, truck driving dog does look a little psycho but only because it forgot to throw a few drops of Lumify before getting behind the wheel.
 
Which side are we talking again, Left or right? And you need any specific keihin brass?
 
ausman1000 said:
I'll open the psycho dog box tomorrow and let you know what I find. I have the brass stuff too, so if you need a certain hard to source piece speak up.
Click to expand...
Damien, you're a prince. So far even the bowls, rods, plates, slides, etc. look ok. I've even got new chromy tops coming. I hope you find a single and don't have to break a set. Just let me know. My carb career should last a while, with at least 3 more sets to go on the bikes here.
 
Years ago Ray on CarTalk was talking about getting parts for carburetors by picking up old ones in pieces, and he said, "When you start to work on a carburetor, pretty soon you'll have two." I remember shouting at the radio (remember radios?) "Two? You'll have 5." When I bought my Bomber project it came with 8! And a pair of Mikuni's.
 
Just curious. Is there anything good or positive about the 3D carbs on the 350's? Or are the 722's just better all around?
 
ballbearian said:
Damien, you're a prince. So far even the bowls, rods, plates, slides, etc. look ok. I've even got new chromy tops coming. I hope you find a single and don't have to break a set. Just let me know. My carb career should last a while, with at least 3 more sets to go on the bikes here.
Click to expand...
This one didn't have a mate so it is happy to have one soon :)

Still has its lovely factory rainbow finish which is always nice for originality sake. I like to use Dawn Ultra if it is heading for an ultrasonic cleaning. It won't hurt the finish like some other products do.

Check your PM's

thumbnail_IMG_4711.jpgIMG_4712.jpg
 
ausman1000 said:
This one didn't have a mate so it is happy to have one soon :)

Still has its lovely factory rainbow finish which is always nice for originality sake. I like to use Dawn Ultra if it is heading for an ultrasonic cleaning. It won't hurt the finish like some other products do.
Click to expand...
Beauty! Good of you brother.
 
ausman1000 said:
This one didn't have a mate so it is happy to have one soon :)

Still has its lovely factory rainbow finish which is always nice for originality sake. I like to use Dawn Ultra if it is heading for an ultrasonic cleaning. It won't hurt the finish like some other products do.

Check your PM's
Click to expand...
That is a gem. A JJ and a LA :love:. Now a fluid dynamics duet.
Thanks for the Dawn tip. I'm ditching the Extreme Simple Green aircraft industrial sauce, It makes carbs very dark if too strong or too long a soak, maybe good for de-mossing the old van.

PM sent.
 
ballbearian said:
That is a gem. A JJ and a LA :love:. Now a fluid dynamics duet.
Thanks for the Dawn tip. I'm ditching the Extreme Simple Green aircraft industrial sauce, It makes carbs very dark if too strong or too long a soak, maybe good for de-mossing the old van.

PM sent.
Click to expand...
I also tried the simple green once, and once only. I had the exact same results as you mentioned above. It ruins the finish and I definately do not like the smell.

Dawn Ultra. I like my carbs to smell like a freshly washed dish :ROFLMAO:
 
Last edited:
The new diaphragms from Scrambler fit really nice. I was worried that the old ones wouldn't come out and or that the plastic ring would be a problem. The new ones needed to be gently worked back into the grove with my thumbnail and was able to rotate the piston for proper alignment with the little tab on the diaphragm.
The bodies are back into the ultrasonic for another soak but with just hot water and a good amount of Dawn Ultra dish soap, instead of the Simple Green extreme.
Yeah, one of the choke plates is missing it's lower edge, but I don't think it will matter much.
I'm still wire brushing the hardware bits, they were kinda crusty even after a soak in the Bilt Hamber Deox-C. It does dissolve the plating which leaves a blackish coating on everything that can be scrubbed off with detergent.
I haven't measured the jets in Scrambler's kit but may use most of it. Pleased to see the kit even includes the tiny washer to support the O ring for the air mix adjuster screw.
The replacement right side carb body (Thanks, Ausman1000 !) and the new felt shaft seals should both be here Monday.
wWXdBAr.jpg
 
Hmm, wonder where the bottom edge of that choke plate got away to. It probably spoiled somebody's day. Got springs on those choke flaps?

I have some old 3D bodies, but no choke plates left in any of them.
 
fxray said:
Hmm, wonder where the bottom edge of that choke plate got away to. It probably spoiled somebody's day. Got springs on those choke flaps?

I have some old 3D bodies, but no choke plates left in any of them.
Click to expand...
They came from ebay this way. Flaps and springs are still good. IIRC, before flaps were 'invented', some carbs just had a small hole to have a minimal air flow. I think it was you that wound your own springs. A heroic save for sure.
It does make you wonder if that piece caused it's bike to end up parted out.
 
ballbearian said:
I think it was you that wound your own springs. A heroic save for sure.
Click to expand...
I did wind my own choke flap springs. The jury is still out as to how heroic that was. :rolleyes:
ballbearian said:
It does make you wonder if that piece caused its bike to end up parted out.
Click to expand...
I was wondering the same thing. I'd say there is a high likelihood of that.
 
ballbearian said:
The new diaphragms from Scrambler fit really nice. I was worried that the old ones wouldn't come out and or that the plastic ring would be a problem. The new ones needed to be gently worked back into the grove with my thumbnail and was able to rotate the piston for proper alignment with the little tab on the diaphragm.
The bodies are back into the ultrasonic for another soak but with just hot water and a good amount of Dawn Ultra dish soap, instead of the Simple Green extreme.
Yeah, one of the choke plates is missing it's lower edge, but I don't think it will matter much.
I'm still wire brushing the hardware bits, they were kinda crusty even after a soak in the Bilt Hamber Deox-C. It does dissolve the plating which leaves a blackish coating on everything that can be scrubbed off with detergent.
I haven't measured the jets in Scrambler's kit but may use most of it. Pleased to see the kit even includes the tiny washer to support the O ring for the air mix adjuster screw.
The replacement right side carb body (Thanks, Ausman1000 !) and the new felt shaft seals should both be here Monday.
wWXdBAr.jpg
Click to expand...
So those aftermarket diaphragms have locating tabs? That’s nice but you still gotta make sure the piston holes are facing the right way.

I always wonder if those aftermarket diaphragms react the exact same way to vacuum as OEM. Kinda critical operation isn’t it?
 
Last edited:
RockReef said:
So those aftermarket diaphragms have locating tabs? That’s nice but you still gotta make sure the piston holes are facing the right way (towards intake valve I believe?).

I always wonder if those aftermarket diaphragms react the exact same way to vacuum as OEM. Kinda critical operation isn’t it?
Click to expand...
There's a number of the diaphragms that are made with heavier rubber and that will delay the piston rise which in turn will probably cause a flat spot in the power curve.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
I can't remember the bad ones. I've been using Sirius Consolidated for them http://www.siriusconinc.com/products/detail/1070
They also have the preformed Viton float bowl gaskets again, the ones that don't swell up and distort. http://www.siriusconinc.com/products/detail/1506
Click to expand...
Jim, perhaps when you have a moment you can give us a micrometer reading for the diaphragm thickness of those Sirius ones? The ones I have are from Scramblercycle and I would like to compare.

Thanks!
 
I also don't know the thickness of the ones from Sirius, but they seem very light and flexible, and seem to be of high quality. Orient the holes toward the choke end of the carburetor. I posted pictures of mine HERE.
 
fxray said:
I also don't know the thickness of the ones from Sirius, but they seem very light and flexible, and seem to be of high quality. Orient the holes toward the choke end of the carburetor. I posted pictures of mine HERE.
Click to expand...
Oh, thank you Ray for that link. I see you've made a few edits so I've marked it to watch now. I just re-read the entirety and it will be very useful in completion of these and the other carb sets, yet to do.
What a great thread.
I found your comment on attempting to solder the flap shut interesting on whatever soft metal was used, as I had observed the Deox-C was much more aggressive on those plates than other parts. Could it be that Honda intentionally choose that metal because it would be softer and less destructive if sucked into the motor? Why not brass?
I need to double check the looseness of those pivot rods and do the JBweld 'cap' if needed.

I will report on thickness findings on the Scrambler diaphragms and the old ones (which may not be the originals, but perhaps are). If they are uniform thickness, going from the center out to the edge, then good, if not that will effect the responsiveness to pressure changes, among different reproduction copies, I would think.
I found no evidence of any glue having been used on the old ones but they were tight on the pistons and had not rotated from the correct orientation of the two holes towards the choke end of the body. The new Scrambler ones are very snug and difficult to 'clock' them, so I'm disinclined to use any glue there or the perimeter either. Actually the old ones seemed quite functional, lacking any real distortion , pin holes or other leaks. So, I will save them for ....

I was thinking of using an old can of aviator type gasket seal with a toothpick in the groove of the float bowls to try to use the round seals in Scrambler's kit. Save $, make a mess, maybe both.

I also need to pressure test the overflow bowl tubes. I've yet to try my hand at soldering those.
 
Last edited:
The new diaphragms are .36mm thick uniformly and the old unknown ones are .27mm, so less than .1 mm thicker. Will this affect the performance? There is also the spring tension in play.
Perhaps some clever person can think of a way to test this in the actual assembled state.
VRBen3Q.jpg
 
ballbearian said:
The Sixth Plague. Boils
AxtsI55.jpg




Must be the fat in the Dawn Ultra. Will try LDR's fav, Pine sol. Or maybe it needs a statin for cholesterol. Weird.
Click to expand...
I made the mistake once of running my CL350 carburetors in Simple Green. After they turned black like yours, I ran them for a long time in my friend's industrial sized ultrasonic cleaner. He even ordered a special solvent we had read good things about. This was no small deal for him, because his cleaner held about 30 gallons and was equipped with a skimmer so that it only rarely needed to have the solvent changed. Here is how they came out after all of that:



I remember sitting in the rocker on my front porch on a beautiful summer day, cleaning and polishing all the nooks and crannies on those carburetors with a tiny cloth mop on my Dremel Tool. Other equipment included rags and old toothbrushes, and my favorite metal polish, Zephyr Pro-40.

At the end of the day:

 
I’m surprised at the dark finish experienced by some of you guys with simple green. I’ve used it on every carb I’ve done (only about 8). But I’ve always had good results with bright shiny aluminum. I’m curious what the difference is. I just use the standard formula and usually about 20 min or so total time. I do notice a bit of darkening to the brass parts though but it rubs off with my finger. Pic of my MT250 carb right out of the cleaner.
IMG_1153.jpeg
 
The difference is probably in the concentration. I would be delighted with parts like in your picture.
 
fxray said:
The difference is probably in the concentration. I would be delighted with parts like in your picture.
Click to expand...
Must be something along those lines. I’ve heard of other people getting darkened parts also. I didn’t dilute my solution with water. Maybe it’s the cheap harbor freight cleaner. Maybe the frequency has something to do with it. But I’m guessing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom