RobMan
Veteran Member
Thanks for the feedback, and yes the FSM does show the DENSO W-24ES as a suitable plug for the K3, 4 and 5 so should be good provided the plugs are well made.
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1972 CB450 K5 Hot Mess
- Thread starter RobMan
- Start date
They've been around for a long time, I remember not thinking much of them while I was still working in the industry because I'd seen some fail in a short time. But our favorite NGK plugs were readily available back then too, and if anything I'd guess ND's manufacturing is on an equal level with all the others today if it wasn't previously.
RobMan
Veteran Member
I will order 2 or 3 sets of the Denso and give them a shot when the time comes. I tested the old NGK's that were in the engine when I got it and both were bad with infinite resistance. Almost makes me wonder if NGK makes their plugs with a built in shelf life some way or the other. 
ballbearian
Veteran Member
+++ on the ND W24 ES-U plugs, of the 8 I bought all were consistent at 2ohm.
Also, ++ on the 4into1 5K caps, I only bought 2 but they were 5 and 7K, close enough. Real NGK 5K caps are getting hard to find and aren't cheap.
Also, ++ on the 4into1 5K caps, I only bought 2 but they were 5 and 7K, close enough. Real NGK 5K caps are getting hard to find and aren't cheap.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Now that's a testimonial I like!
jensen
Veteran Member
Why not use Iridium plugs ? I use them in all my bikes, accept in my CD50H (there are no Iridium plugs that will fit in, as far as I know). When the engine of the CD50H is cold, and I have to start with the choke on, the plug fouls easily when not closing the choke on time. I always take a new plug with me on that little bike.
RobMan
Veteran Member
What Iridium plugs are you using in your 450's and how much do they cost? The Denso plugs I am going to order are $3.42 before shipping which will be $10.00. After I get the bike running I will probably get non resister caps and try some other plugs if I have trouble with the Denso.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Ordered 6 of the plugs from Denso as the shipping is almost the same for 2, 4 or 6. Here is their web page showing the 3 different plus they sell for the 1972 CL450. For some reason if you put in CB450 it comes back as nothing available.
Regular plug is $3.42 as mentioned above, Iridium plug is $9.73 and for anyone who needs them the Racing Iridium plugs are $38.73.
Regular plug is $3.42 as mentioned above, Iridium plug is $9.73 and for anyone who needs them the Racing Iridium plugs are $38.73.
Probably NGK BR8EIX, pretty sure the only version they come in are resistor.
jensen
Veteran Member
Yes, and adding non resistor spark plug caps
RobMan
Veteran Member
Going back to post 856 regarding Scrambler Cycle air filters. Is this the problem you had where the filter boot does not push all the way on the carb flange, blue arrow? I am assuming the correction is to elongate the mount hole at the red arrow.
View attachment IMG_5046.JPG
Danager4792
Veteran Member
That actually looks fairly close to how mine are. Maybe mine are just a hair further. I couldn't get one of them to completely seat against the carb flange. I made sure the carb clamp completely sealed the rubber boot all the way around.
At one point I had to loosen the two bolts on the battery box and move it a hair, and yes I did have to use a metal file on exactly where your red arrow is. I'll take a picture or two here in a little bit of how mine turned out.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Thanks for the confirmation. After I posted this I thought about trying to adjust the battery box and see if I can move it a bit closer to the carbs, I also have an extra set of gaskets for the carburetor insulators and I could double them up to move the carbs a bit closer to the air box as well if needed. No need for pictures if you have to disassemble anything.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Side covers are off, so no big deal at all
I couldn't get the left side to completely seat no matter how hard I tried, but the air flow is completely sealed off with the clamp. The bike was missing one of the upper corner mounting bolts for the filter so I opted for a phillips Ace Hardware replacement at the time.
RobMan
Veteran Member
I see what you mean about the left side but as long as its clamped well then should be fine. Hopefully I can get mine to slip on far enough to clamp down.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
It's a very tedious process getting everything lined up - I experienced sheer frustration when I first attempted it. When the air filters pop out, the rubber joints will attach to them. If you move the battery box too far, the screw holes won't line up haha. Looking forward to when you get everything squared away and we hear it fire up
RobMan
Veteran Member
Saw this ad on Craigslist for a seat, but seller does not know if it is for a CB 250 350 or 450. Can anyone tell from the numbers on the seat pan or another way to tell for sure?
myrtlebeach.craigslist.org
Vintage Honda CB 250 350 450 motorcycle seat - motorcycle parts - by owner - vehicle automotive bike sale - craigslist
Vintage Honda Motorcycle seat. I think it’s for the CB model
Danager4792
Veteran Member
That square stitched design was used on 1971 CL’s and 1972 CB’s. This would be 1972 seeing that the hinge is on the side.Saw this ad on Craigslist for a seat, but seller does not know if it is for a CB 250 350 or 450. Can anyone tell from the numbers on the seat pan or another way to tell for sure?
Vintage Honda CB 250 350 450 motorcycle seat - motorcycle parts - by owner - vehicle automotive bike sale - craigslist
Vintage Honda Motorcycle seat. I think it’s for the CB model
View attachment 47994
Do you have your original seat pan to compare it visually?
RobMan
Veteran Member
I do but none of the numbers on my pan are visible, I think someone sprayed it black. As best I can tell it looks just like my seat as far as hinges, lock and bumpers but without measuring its hard to tell. Did all the CB/CL models use the same seat? I have to run an errand but when I get back I will do some part number research on CMSNL.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
CB’s and CL’s used different sized seats because the fuel tanks were different capacities as well. Also, the 350’s and 450’s had different dimensions too.
Sometimes I use texavina’s website to compare the different years and models of their repro seat pans.
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RobMan
Veteran Member
This is kind of an intellectual exercise anyway as the seller is showing at Myrtle Beach SC which is about 3-4 hours away. I had about decided a Texavina seat was in my future but ran across this and looks pretty good but without actually comparing it to my old seat. Things that make you go HUMMMMM.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
It looks like the pan I have on my CB450k7. The seat was not original to the bike, mine came with a CL seat and I believe I picked this up at a now defunct junkyard. The number 457 is visible on mine, but I touched up the roughest areas and the other numbers are obscured.
RobMan
Veteran Member
I believe there is a good chance it is for a 450 but wish it was closer so I could get a look at it. No pictures of the right hand side either. Still probably get a Texavina.
Just a heads up. Tex has been having some supply/import/tariff issues over the summer. He’s super proactive about taking care of the issue, but he’s still having some get blocked. I’ve had one sitting somewhere in the system in Long Beach for 9 weeks now, one arrived just fine and the third is just now stateside so hopefully it clears customs.
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RobMan
Veteran Member
Update on the Denso spark plugs I ordered, checked all 6 and got 0.03 ohms on all of them at the 200 ohms setting. The consistency helps give me confidence that they are well made plugs
RobMan
Veteran Member
Followup on the air filters not fitting properly. Removed the battery and the battery box bolts and was able to reposition about a 1/4 inch forward and filter boots mount properly on the carbs. Waiting for the carburetor insulator clamps and some other parts to come in so I can piece everything together.
Other than that got the headers off the mufflers to see if the exhaust can be made presentable. PO had spray painted the headers and it is flaking off and there is a lot of rust. Got the headers soaking in a tote with 4 gallons of Metal Rescue. Functionally they are in good shape just pretty ugly. Mufflers much the same except I don't think they were painted but a lot of surface rust.
Other than that got the headers off the mufflers to see if the exhaust can be made presentable. PO had spray painted the headers and it is flaking off and there is a lot of rust. Got the headers soaking in a tote with 4 gallons of Metal Rescue. Functionally they are in good shape just pretty ugly. Mufflers much the same except I don't think they were painted but a lot of surface rust.
Fortunately, there are a lot of options for exhaust on these. But dang do they get pricey in a hurry. I have a big old acid spill on one of mine and just live with it. The clamps de rust pretty well and that helps bring some shine back.
Hopefully the paint on the headers just acted to protect the chrome.
Hopefully the paint on the headers just acted to protect the chrome.
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And now, back to Rob's CB450 hot mess...
RobMan
Veteran Member
Killing time waiting on parts so I can go for an engine start in the near future so worked on the exhaust system cleaning up rust and old paint. Ended up using the the fine wire brush on my bench grinder to get most of the crud off along with most of the remaining chrome. I then used my hand drill and a wire brush so at least I can handle them and confirmed no cracks or holes. I may give some header paint a shot and see how it works at least for the short term.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Posting some shots of my wiring harness layout for posterity. Not saying this is OEM correct at this point and may have to reroute as I install the tank and such but it may help others. Still very happy I purchased the new harness.
Busy bucket and no turn signals yet.
Sparck Moto flasher behind the ignition switch.
Need to add a length of heat shrink to the rectifier/regulator black lead routed between battery box
and air horn. Made a jumper to connect the left over ground directly to battery.
I think I have the wiring at the battery and solenoid sorted as best I can. I will add a shot of the rear wiring
after I put the rear fender in place.
Busy bucket and no turn signals yet.
Sparck Moto flasher behind the ignition switch.
Need to add a length of heat shrink to the rectifier/regulator black lead routed between battery box
and air horn. Made a jumper to connect the left over ground directly to battery.
I think I have the wiring at the battery and solenoid sorted as best I can. I will add a shot of the rear wiring
after I put the rear fender in place.
Interesting, in the first picture it would seem one side of your headlight wiring has red as low beam and black as ground? Also, you should pick up one of those harness boots for over your alternator wiring plug at the harness.
4into1.com
Wire Harness Connector Cover
Wire harness connector cover. Building a wire harness from scratch or cleaning up some unruly connectors? These soft PVC covers are very similar to the covers Honda used on the stock wiring harness used to cover a group of bullet connectors.
4into1.com
RobMan
Veteran Member
The headlight connector is from the bulb I bought from 4into1 and that is how it is wired. Headlight works properly when plugged in and switched from high to low. I believe I have an extra boot I can put over that connector, May have to split it it a bit on the narrow end and the tape to get it on.Interesting, in the first picture it would seem one side of your headlight wiring has red as low beam and black as ground? Also, you should pick up one of those harness boots for over your alternator wiring plug at the harness.
Wire Harness Connector Cover
Wire harness connector cover. Building a wire harness from scratch or cleaning up some unruly connectors? These soft PVC covers are very similar to the covers Honda used on the stock wiring harness used to cover a group of bullet connectors.
I bought the same covers in different sizes. They all had the narrow opening on one end. For the alternator wires, I ended up removing the brown plug from the main harness to feed the wires through, then put the plug back on.
RobMan
Veteran Member
I considered removing the plug briefly but the adage "If it ain't broke don't fix came to mind". I will cut it just enough to slip over the plug and add a bit of electrical tape and call it good.
RobMan
Veteran Member
I had seen several threads recently where bad carburetor floats had come up and one in particular discussing cracks. When I rebuilt my carbs I gave the floats a visual exam but was mainly searching for pitting from corrosion. Decided to take another look and never got past the visual inspection. Of the 3 floats I have 2 had what appears to be cracks in the brass itself. Here is a pic of one and you can see the crack follows up almost to the seam itself. I shined it up with some 400 grit so hard to see but it's there. Ordered a new set of floats from 4into1.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
The cracks kind of surprised me – I would expect the past soldering joints to be the weak spots, but I guess the brass is just very thin.
I've repaired floats with holes in the past, but soldering along a crack doesn't seem worth the effort. One would also need to drill the ends of the crack to stop the propagation.
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RobMan
Veteran Member
A set of floats and pins from 4into1 are only $23.00 and it just didn't seem worth the effort to try to fix them.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Waiting for the new floats to be delivered today and saw the mail carrier come by and said YAY! Went out to the mail box but no package, DARN! Checked the tracking number and says delivered SIGH. Package comes all the way from California to North Carolina and gets lost on the last mile. Hopefully the neighbor who routinely gets my mail will drop it by later like we do theirs. Patience grasshopper.
Amannl
Veteran Member
David Silver lists a repro seat for the CB450K3, 4 & 5 with a center code 457?Saw this ad on Craigslist for a seat, but seller does not know if it is for a CB 250 350 or 450. Can anyone tell from the numbers on the seat pan or another way to tell for sure?
Vintage Honda CB 250 350 450 motorcycle seat - motorcycle parts - by owner - vehicle automotive bike sale - craigslist
Vintage Honda Motorcycle seat. I think it’s for the CB model
View attachment 47994
RobMan
Veteran Member
Thank you for sharing that but I have a new used seat heading my way thanks to the generosity of one of our members for less than the price of a seat cover off ebay. Than you @JustinF25! I will post pictures when it gets here on Friday (if the mail carrier doesn't lose it.)
RobMan
Veteran Member
Mowing the yard yesterday and saw the mail carrier pull up to my mailbox and asked her about the package that was not delivered to me and explained that it may be at another home with a similar address, she said she would check and in a bit she was back with the package, Yahoo! Swapped the floats and reset them to 20 MM and also checked the pilot screws and confirmed set at 1 1/4 turns out per the FSM. I do have question, what is a good bench setting for the Idle Stop Screw just for the initial startup? I couldn't find anything about that in the FSM. I found a reference online to run the screw in until it touches the stop and then one more turn and then adjust after you get it running.
Want to give a shout out to @JustinF25 about hooking me up with an awesome seat for my build. It looks great, vinyl feels like new and foam feel like new. When I sat it on the frame it threw gas on the fire to get this bad boy on the road! I still can't get over the caliber of the people in this forum and makes me humble and look for opportunities to pay it forward.
Want to ask if anyone has suggestion on bets way to repair a couple of small tears on the bottom edge of the seat pan just to stop it from getting worse? I am thinking some good adhesive worked in the tears and then clamped so the adhesive doesn't stick to the clamp but appreciate any suggestions.
Want to give a shout out to @JustinF25 about hooking me up with an awesome seat for my build. It looks great, vinyl feels like new and foam feel like new. When I sat it on the frame it threw gas on the fire to get this bad boy on the road! I still can't get over the caliber of the people in this forum and makes me humble and look for opportunities to pay it forward.
Want to ask if anyone has suggestion on bets way to repair a couple of small tears on the bottom edge of the seat pan just to stop it from getting worse? I am thinking some good adhesive worked in the tears and then clamped so the adhesive doesn't stick to the clamp but appreciate any suggestions.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
Which model carbs do you have? 14H?
I have 723 series carbs and they have two sets of holes in the throat for the idle circuit. The front hole is well in front of the throttle plate and there is a pair of holes right under the plate. My starting position is to have the plate partially exposing that second set of holes. (second picture below)
You can see the line where the plate closes.
This shows the plate in my starting position.
Edited: I can't remember how/if the14H carbs differ. I have a few 14C bodies in rough shape and those have two holes, one under the plate and another in front, but more on the side than at the bottom of the bore.
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RobMan
Veteran Member
I have the 723A's as well and this info is really helpful to get it as close to the proper setting prior to trying for that initial start.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
If your RPM's upon startup are too low, with perfectly aligned throttle plates, there is a simple trick I was taught. Get someone to hold the throttle at your desired RPM's while you kneel down and tighten the idle screws so that they touch the stop arms. When they let go of the throttle, it will stay at the RPM's they held it at.I have the 723A's as well and this info is really helpful to get it as close to the proper setting prior to trying for that initial start.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
When I look at the other pictures I can't even see where those tears are from the outside. So, I would probably leave them alone. Adhesives might complicate removal at some later date. The replacement covers from Sirius Consolidated (SCI) are pretty nice and you could always install one of those later on.
RobMan
Veteran Member
When I get to that point I can see if I can get my neighbor across the street can come over and give me a hand. He just recently got a 71 Mustang convertible with a 351 Cleveland he is bring back to a running state and I am sure he could use and extra hand at some point.
RobMan
Veteran Member
I know what you mean and your right you can't see the tears unless you turn the seat over, just hate for them to get worse. Thanks for the info on the Sirius Consolidated (SCI) covers and if needed will go that route and honestly the cover on it will probably outlast me.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
You can suture them closed like a Hollywood plastic surgeon and apply a tiny bit of ShoeGoo or black liquid tape.I know what you mean and your right you can't see the tears unless you turn the seat over, just hate for them to get worse. Thanks for the info on the Sirius Consolidated (SCI) covers and if needed will go that route and honestly the cover on it will probably outlast me.