1972 CB450 K5 Hot Mess

12ozPBR said:
Well you know what they say when we ASSume things… I should have actually gone and looked at one of my bikes when I responded earlier. I must have been thinking of a 350 twin?

What boddy shows is more correct than what I said. The harness runs down the left side then crosses over to the right side under the frame in front of the battery. Here is a pic of a ratty K5 showing what I think is original. Sorry if I created confusion. 😵‍💫
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No worries and you can't add any more confusion to a brain like mine. It is already so full that if you try to add any extra it just spills out. I really appreciate you making the effort to pull the tarp off and take a look. I am sure it was hot enough to just want to stay in the AC. With yours and Boddy's help I think I will get it routed correctly.
 
Wanted to post a update, Been working between the heat and other things so no huge accomplishments other than get the front forks mounted. New switches run in the handlebar and the wiring a little closer to how it needs to be. Still cleaning and painting, rebuilt the master cylinder and caliper. A number of other small things just slowly making progress.

Had a visitor a few weeks ago who heard that I was restoring a Vintage Honda Twin. Common black snake probably looking for some relief from the heat. Photo courtesy of my wife.

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3 Honda's in a row. Showing a little progress on the 450.

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Heading to Deal's gap in the morning to meet my daughter and her husband and stay through Monday. They got there yesterday and rode the Tail of the Dragon this morning. She has a 2017 Triumph Bonneville Bobber and he has a Honda CBR1000RR not sure of the year. She is pretty new to riding with about 3 years or so experience and as a rider I am very proud of her but as a dad well we worry a bit.
Her quote, " We survived!! It was hard as @#%&. Picture of their patches.

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Perhaps I will have the 450 ready by next year and give it a go.
 
Back from a really nice weekend at Deal's Gap> Didn't ride the Dragons Tail but I did take my daughters Triumph out for a spin around the local area and enjoyed it a lot, never got out of 3rd for the most part. If you love curves it's paradise up there. For anyone considering a trip up there I recommend avoiding holidays and if possible go during the middle of the week to avoid congestion. Anyway definitely motivated me to get the 450 finished and running,.

This about as far as my wife is going to go as far as riding a motorcycle. She's posing on my daughters bike and my son in law by his bike.

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Piddling in the garage between chores and the heat and finally taking a good look at the air filters and covers I have. I only have one set of filters that would have to have the paper stripped and use foam and one set of boots that are in decent shape. I have 3 sets of the covers, one from my project and 2 from the boxes of stuff that came with the donor engine, one of which is in very good shape. One of the other sets is corroded looking but physically in good shape and last set is cracked pretty bad. Mentioning this in case anyone is looking for covers. The cracked set could probably be plastic welded.

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Between having to buy foam and the hassle factor of refurbishing the filters I am considering just ordering replacements from Scrambler Cycle. Just wondering if anyone has used them and if the fit is good or if there were any issues.

scramblercycle.com

Honda 72-74 CB450 72-74 CL450 Air Filter Set Left and Right - Reproduction

Honda 72-74 CB450 72-74 CL450 Air Filter Set Left and Right - Reproduction Honda 72-74 CB450 72-74 CL450 Air Filter Set Left and Right - Reproduction...
scramblercycle.com


I also have to order a couple of the joint tube seals, 17213-292-000, Looks like CMSNL, Class Studios and a Retro CB has them available. Wondering is anyone has ordered from Retro CB. Looks like his main business is making side covers.
 
I think the Scrambler Cycle air filters are close to an original fit, might need slight tweaking. Others here have bought them, including @12ozPBR IIRC
 
RobMan said:
Between having to buy foam and the hassle factor of refurbishing the filters I am considering just ordering replacements from Scrambler Cycle. Just wondering if anyone has used them and if the fit is good or if there were any issues.

scramblercycle.com

Honda 72-74 CB450 72-74 CL450 Air Filter Set Left and Right - Reproduction

Honda 72-74 CB450 72-74 CL450 Air Filter Set Left and Right - Reproduction Honda 72-74 CB450 72-74 CL450 Air Filter Set Left and Right - Reproduction...
scramblercycle.com
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I currently have these on my ‘71 CL450. I had to use a metal file on one (x2) of the upper bolt holes for exact alignment. With these being advertised as ‘72-74, they should just drop right in.

RobMan said:
I also have to order a couple of the joint tube seals, 17213-292-000, Looks like CMSNL, Class Studios and a Retro CB has them available. Wondering is anyone has ordered from Retro CB. Looks like his main business is making side covers.
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These are the joint seals that I am using. You may find a better price elsewhere.

 
Danager4792 said:
I currently have these on my ‘71 CL450. I had to use a metal file on one (x2) of the upper bolt holes for exact alignment. With these being advertised as ‘72-74, they should just drop right in.


These are the joint seals that I am using. You may find a better price elsewhere.

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Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate knowing something works properly before ordering even if I can return it. :D
 
I have used the earlier K1 style repop filters from Scrambler. Everything about them seemed identical to the originals. Scrambler at one time also had the rubber crossover seals as well. Buy with confidence from Scrambler.
 
I was looking for the seals at their site but they must not stock them now. I do prefer bundling as much stuff as I can in a single order to make the most of shipping. :giggle:
 
Danager4792 said:
These are the joint seals that I am using. You may find a better price elsewhere.
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I just took a look at Clauss Studios ebay store and they were down to their last set so I went ahead and popped for them. I am trying to get everything I need to see if I can get the engine to run before investing in the new seat and wheels it needs. I would feel a lot better about the expense if I can at least hear it run without loud banging noises. Still a ways to go but getting closer. I sure wish the heat and humidity would drop a point or two so I get more garage time. :confused:
 
Just placeed an order with Scrambler Cycle for the air filters, carb insulators, shocks (chrome is terrible on my old ones) and a set of grips. In case anyone is wondering the the discount for VHT members, VHT10OFF, is working and made this order a bit sweeter. :giggle:
 
Can anyone point me to or tell me the dimensions of the original battery for the CB450K5? I have looked pretty extensively but can't find them.
I ordered a Mighty max battery, YB12A-A and the dimensions are 5.24 in x 3.15 in x 6.10 in. and just want to make sure the height is OK.
 
RobMan said:
Can anyone point me to or tell me the dimensions of the original battery for the CB450K5? I have looked pretty extensively but can't find them.
I ordered a Mighty max battery, YB12A-A and the dimensions are 5.24 in x 3.15 in x 6.10 in. and just want to make sure the height is OK.
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Slow and small updates. Received the parts from Scrambler Cycle and Clauss Studios and everything was in good shape. I had also ordered some top shock nuts and washers from VintageCB750 and got free shipping which I wasn't expecting until I was checking out so nice bonus. Been a little cooler so getting a little time in the garage and slowly making some progress.

Sorted the wiring in the headlight bucket and tested the switches to make sure they were working properly with no evidence of any misrouted leads or shorts. The stock horn is louder than I remembered and actually started me a bit but that is a good thing, the one on the S90 is pretty anemic.

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I have a spare yellow lead that should have gone to the voltage regulator but I am assuming just stays disconnected now that I have installed the Sparek Moto unit. I added a terminal to the extra ground lead and connected to the battery as an extra ground point as I saw no sense in just leaving it dangling. Otherwise just slowly adding apiece here and there and torquing bolts as I am pretty sure I will not need to remove that part. Next big step is to get the bike lifted and the center stand and side stand installed.

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I'm curious about that unused yellow wire, you might email or PM Matt to ask. I assume you bypassed the headlight switch and looped the white/yellow and yellow in the main harness in the headlight case, but to have an extra yellow coming from the main harness in that area seems odd to me.

Also, you might have to lift the main harness behind the engine for clearance for the choke linkage.
 
Yes I will need to PM Matt just to confirm the wiring is done correctly. I am sure I will need to adjust the harness after I put the carbs on. Currently I am still in the loose install piece it back together stage. :rolleyes:
 
ancientdad said:
I'm curious about that unused yellow wire, you might email or PM Matt to ask.
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Emailed Matt from Sparck Moto to ask about the yellow wire that would have gone to the original voltage regulator and he confirmed that with the new unit it is not required to be connected anywhere. I will tape up the connector to make sure no chance of a short and and secure it back to the harness. I will say again the new harness was well worth the money compared to the hassle it would have been to use the old one.
 
RobMan said:
Emailed Matt from Sparck Moto to ask about the yellow wire that would have gone to the original voltage regulator and he confirmed that with the new unit it is not required to be connected anywhere. I will tape up the connector to make sure no chance of a short and and secure it back to the harness. I will say again the new harness was well worth the money compared to the hassle it would have been to use the old one.
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Some of us (me!) are squirrels who can't stand replacing things that we maybe can fix. It's a form of mental illness. My wife yells at me a lot about this ugly compulsion.
 
wentwest said:
Some of us (me!) are squirrels who can't stand replacing things that we maybe can fix.
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Believe me that is the way I grew up and lived most of my life especially if it was something for me. At this point in my life though I want to pick my battles and a hardened, faded and spliced wiring harness was not one of them. I am getting good out of the old one though cutting jumper leads so I can use the correct color wires. :D
 
Got out in the garage before it got to hot today and took care of a couple of small issues. One was coming up with some washers to space out the top mount of the new shocks I got from Scrambler Cycle. This is noted on their website but I sure wish they sold the washers as an add on sale. The original shock top mount is about a 1/8 inch or more wider so I had to cobble up some washers. Inside diameter of the washer needed is 5/8 inch which is readily available at a hardware store but the outside diameter is too big. Finally used some flat 5/8 inch rubber hose washers and a couple of aluminum washers that were the correct outside diameter and needed the inside opened up a bit. I am sure there is an over the counter washer/spacer out there but I wasn't finding it and this works.

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In the course of tiding up the wire harness I noticed that the neutral light was not coming on and after a bit of troubleshooting narrowed down to the obvious suspect the neutral light switch. I had previously took it apart and cleaned it and it was working but I guess the solder joint at the wire was not up to the abuse and had come loose, you can see the crack in the photo. After getting a bottle of one my favorite liquid refreshments I re-soldered it and installed back on the bike and the neutral light works as advertised now. Temp got above 90 in the garage so put everything up until tomorrow morning.


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Coming along.

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Rob, here's a link to a very original CL450K6 posted this morning that shows lots of proper component positioning for reference.

bringatrailer.com

No Reserve: 1974 Honda CL450 Scrambler

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 1974 Honda CL450 Scrambler at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #202,827.
bringatrailer.com bringatrailer.com
 
ancientdad said:
Rob, here's a link to a very original CL450K6 posted this morning that shows lots of proper component positioning for reference.
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Thank you Tom, that is really helpful. I did not take enough photos during tear down and of course who know what was correct to begin with. I have been souring the web looking for pictures of certain areas to try to get it close. I do find myself at Bring a Trailer a lot. :D
 
RobMan said:
Thank you Tom, that is really helpful. I did not take enough photos during tear down and of course who know what was correct to begin with. I have been souring the web looking for pictures of certain areas to try to get it close. I do find myself at Bring a Trailer a lot. :D
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Yep, that bike is as close as any I've seen in a while, even the stock throttle cable run through the cable holder on the handlebar clamps, rare to see these days with the inaccuracies in cable lengths now. The electrics under the seat is what caught my eye first, nice and clean aside from that original style lead-acid battery.
 
Decided to go for an oil static leak test so got the bike lifted up so I can check the oil drain bolt (yes it was loose) and put a pan under the engine. Added 3 quarts and it has been sitting for about an hour with no obvious leaks. Next step is to test the starter and make sure the engine is oiling properly. I believe I have read the best way to check that the engine is oiling properly is to remove the exhaust valve cover as the exhaust cam that is the last place to get oil, is this correct? Any other advice I should consider?
 
RobMan said:
Decided to go for an oil static leak test so got the bike lifted up so I can check the oil drain bolt (yes it was loose) and put a pan under the engine. Added 3 quarts and it has been sitting for about an hour with no obvious leaks. Next step is to test the starter and make sure the engine is oiling properly. I believe I have read the best way to check that the engine is oiling properly is to remove the exhaust valve cover as the exhaust cam that is the last place to get oil, is this correct? Any other advice I should consider?
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I would pull both valve covers so you can drip a little lube on both sets of lobes before cranking, and your focus should be the left exhaust cam lobe (as sitting on the bike, of course). It is the very last thing to get oil flow. Since the camshafts are hollow, it takes the time to fill them up and the oil to start flowing out of the orifices in the lobes.
 
ancientdad said:
I would pull both valve covers so you can drip a little lube on both sets of lobes before cranking, and your focus should be the left exhaust cam lobe (as sitting on the bike, of course). It is the very last thing to get oil flow. Since the camshafts are hollow, it takes the time to fill them up and the oil to start flowing out of the orifices in the lobes.
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I will do that and let you know how it goes. Cross fingers!
 
And don't panic. Ii takes longer than you think to get oil there with the stock pump. Even with Jay's pump it felt like an eternity the first time I did the same thing.
 
EzPete said:
And don't panic. Ii takes longer than you think to get oil there with the stock pump. Even with Jay's pump it felt like an eternity the first time I did the same thing.
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Thank You! I do have the stock pump and I was starting to feel the icy fingers in my core because I was seeing nothing. I will take a deep breath and open a bottle of Shiner Bock to calm my nerves. With that said the starter (Thank you again Brody @stl360+450) and the engine just spinning with spark plugs out and no load sounds great. Just smooth mechanical sounds no grinding, clanging or other scary noises. I will go back and give it a few more spins.
 
RobMan said:
Thank You! I do have the stock pump and I was starting to feel the icy fingers in my core because I was seeing nothing. I will take a deep breath and open a bottle of Shiner Bock to calm my nerves. With that said the starter (Thank you again Brody @stl360+450) and the engine just spinning with spark plugs out and no load sounds great. Just smooth mechanical sounds no grinding, clanging or other scary noises. I will go back and give it a few more spins.
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Yes with the engine running, and obviously spinning a lot faster than the starter can turn it, it still takes between 1 and 2 full minutes.
 
I am getting oil from each cam lobes and can see it puddling a bit but it is anemic. I do believe a Jay's oil pump will be a future upgrade! With that said very happy to see what I am getting.
 
RobMan said:
I am getting oil from each cam lobes and can see it puddling a bit but it is anemic.
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While I am in no way telling you not to add Jay's oil pump later, remember again that the anemic output right now is at starter speed only. Even idle speed is roughly 5 to 7 times that fast. And remember that the lunatic who rides that loud red-framed thing WFO half the time it's running is surviving on the stock oil pump :rolleyes:
 
ancientdad said:
While I am in no way telling you not to add Jay's oil pump later, remember again that the anemic output right now is at starter speed only. Even idle speed is roughly 5 to 7 times that fast. And remember that the lunatic who rides that loud red-framed thing WFO half the time it's running is surviving on the stock oil pump :rolleyes:
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Running your bike the way you do is a tribute to both the machine and the mechanic/rider. Thanks for the reassurance that the stock pump is more than capable of providing the required lubrication even when pushed hard is very reassuring. I am quite pleased with today's results and next steps will be making sure I am getting spark and a compression check.
 
RobMan said:
Running your bike the way you do is a tribute to both the machine and the mechanic/rider. Thanks for the reassurance that the stock pump is more than capable of providing the required lubrication even when pushed hard is very reassuring. I am quite pleased with today's results and next steps will be making sure I am getting spark and a compression check.
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I know you have concerns and it's good to feel that way, overconfidence is never good in these things. You've done a meticulous job of assembly so you'll be fine, just have trust in your work.
 
Wow I got an allen head kit to swap them out during my engine work. Now you've got me rethinking it. I hadn't thought about stripping out the threads. And to be honest I've never had any issues because I use a JIS screwdriver and a impact screwdriver on the stubborn ones and so far it's just worked every time. This is good to know, if I do go with the allens I'll have to make sure to be extra gentle on them.
ancientdad said:
Just be aware that if you do use allen heads, you can easily over-torque some bolts and end up with stripped aluminum threads, or in the case of the points screws, a stripped points plate which are NLA and good ones are hard to find (and NOS with new points on one is way over $100)
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Banjo1974CB450K7 said:
Wow I got an allen head kit to swap them out during my engine work. Now you've got me rethinking it. I hadn't thought about stripping out the threads. And to be honest I've never had any issues because I use a JIS screwdriver and a impact screwdriver on the stubborn ones and so far it's just worked every time. This is good to know, if I do go with the allens I'll have to make sure to be extra gentle on them.
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You just gotta stop watching videos that influence you to ignore what Honda did :giggle: they were smarter than most vehicle manufacturers back then despite some of the things they did that deviated from the norm at the time (like JIS screws). You can get a #3 JIS screw more than tight enough with a t-handle and you'll never ruin threads or break off a screw that way.
 
Still a good ways to go but seeing a glimmer down the tunnel. :cool: I tend to move at a slow pace these days and overthink some things but feeling very positive right now

Tom thanks again for the link to the BAT CL450, there are some really good pics and really helpful especially the closeups of the battery connections.
 
RobMan said:
Tom thanks again for the link to the BAT CL450, there are some really good pics and really helpful especially the closeups of the battery connections.
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Your bike was the first one that came to mind when I saw those nice clear pics, and I'm going to harvest them for a similar group I gathered for the SL350K0 since that 450 seems to be virtually unmolested.
 
ancientdad said:
You just gotta stop watching videos that influence you to ignore what Honda did :giggle: they were smarter than most vehicle manufacturers back then despite some of the things they did that deviated from the norm at the time (like JIS screws). You can get a #3 JIS screw more than tight enough with a t-handle and you'll never ruin threads or break off a screw that way.
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Haha you already know I was watching wayyy to many those guys in Houston videos before I joined this forum and listened to your sage advice regarding them. That is exactly the source of this misguided effort. My intuition told me that since I hadn't stripped any JIS screws or had any issues that I should keep going with them, I just kept seeing over and over and over again guys converting these to allen heads.

To me though it already seemed intuitively based on my experiences with my bike that the JIS work just fine if you are kind to them and use the correct tools and techniques. Lets hope those guys in Houston lets me return the allen bolt set because seeing y'all advise the exact same thing my instincts told me makes me glad I haven't done the conversion yet. I also dislike the idea of switching away from JIS because I still have my original honda tools and toolbag and the OEM screwdriver is a bit goofy with some of the smaller JIS screws I noticed, but I have a short handled toyota JIS screwdriver that works really well and fits in the tool holder just fine. I'll definitely go order a t handle with some JIS heads. What length on the t handle? I imagine if it's too long you could overtighten them.
 
Banjo1974CB450K7 said:
What length on the t handle? I imagine if it's too long you could overtighten them.
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Since you generally only use one hand on the T portion of the T-handle, you must have gorilla strength if you can wrist one of these #3 screws enough to break one off or strip it. I like things tight, but I've never stripped the threads or broken a screw using either of the T-handles I have, one from Vessel bought in 1972 and the other the Motion Pro unit I've suggested to many here. This is from the Amazon listing for one:

Product Dimensions‎11 x 6 x 0.5 inches
 
Procrastination bites. I had ordered 6 NGK 2411 B8ES from Rock Auto back in April 2024 that were part of a closeout, (Only received 5, they subbed in a different plug) and they have been sitting in a box waiting for the day they are needed. I have been seeing a lot of chatter about bad and counterfeit spark plugs since I have been on the forum and have been telling myself I need to check the resistance on the plugs. Packaging looks good as do the plugs physically but only 1 out of the 5 measured close to 0 resistance, about 4 ohms. The others all measured from 25K to 35K ohms. I had ordered 2 plug caps from 4into1 and they look good with right at 5K ohms. An option I am considering is Denso but I have seen some folks say they have issues with them.
The ones I am looking at are Denso 4030 W24ES-U Nickel U-Groove Spark Plug ordered directly from Denso.


Their site show the plugs fit the 1972 CL450 so I am sure it would fit the CB450 as well. :rolleyes:

Anyway has anyone used these and with what results?


​

 
RobMan said:
The ones I am looking at are Denso 4030 W24ES-U. Anyway has anyone used these and with what results?
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Yep. I think @ballbearian, @Jays100, and I are all using them. I was fouling them kinda fast in my CB450, but I hope that was due to experimentation with alternate advancer springs. Let's see if they have anything else to add. Some of the FSMs mention the ND plugs as an alternative to the NGK B8ES also.
 
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