1972 CB450 K5 Hot Mess

ballbearian said:
Another option.
code: VHT10OFF

scramblercycle.com

Honda 12v Brake Tail Light Assembly CB750 CB500 CB/CL350 CB/CL450 CB175 CL175

Honda 12v Brake Tail Light Assembly CB750 CB500 CB/CL350 CB/CL450 CB175 CL175 Reproduction part. 12 volt bulb included. There was a few different versions for some of these models over the years so check out the pics and your bike before ordering. Approximately 5" wide x 3.5" tall x 2.6"...
scramblercycle.com
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That light has 2 lens screws but the one for my bike and later has 4 and is more square as @ancientdad said. 4in1 has a replacement assembly for $30 but a little concerned on how well it is made.
 
RobMan said:
That light has 2 lens screws but the one for my bike and later has 4 and is more square as @ancientdad said. 4in1 has a replacement assembly for $30 but a little concerned on how well it is made.
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Yeah, the big rectangular lens started with the K5. I'm just wondering about the Scrambler Cycle (clearly) aftermarket unit for the K4 and back, just looks off a bit.
 
boddy said:
If your tail light lens is looking a bit tired you could always put it on a buffing wheel to shine it up. I did that on mine and it came out nice. Don't stay in one place too long or apply too much pressure or you will melt the plastic.
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Thanks for the idea, buffing is definitely an option. The lens is in good shape other than missing the reflector on the right side. Apparently the reflectors are glued in place. Perhaps I will come up with a cracked lens at some point I can steal the reflector out of. :unsure:
 
@RobMan I went to look through some boxes of old parts and found a tail light assembly. It's in a little rough shape but it's yours for the postage (not sure if cost effective if coming from Canada). Not sure if it's for the 450 or even if it's OEM. Do you have any markings on yours to identify it? Mine just says C.G.C and made in Japan
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Thanks for the offer and really appreciated but that is an earlier taillight assembly than mine, . Mine is like this. Arrow marks the reflector that's popped out of my lens. I may just order the whole assembly from 4into1 later and call it a day.

72 tail light.jpg
 
boddy said:
If your tail light lens is looking a bit tired you could always put it on a buffing wheel to shine it up. I did that on mine and it came out nice. Don't stay in one place too long or apply too much pressure or you will melt the plastic.
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This is the correct wheel for any plastic lens. Use the blue compound and buff away with no heat issues or melting plastic. Most of my bikes use the original lens even if scratched lightly. You can fine sand the scratch out first with progressive finer paper to 2000. Then buff with this wheel to a brand new lens finish vs buying original Honda ones which can be pricy. The other option is an aftermarket lens which is way cheaper.
True story I had a couple of aftermarket lenses in my parts lot I was selling at the Paris Rally swap meet last summer. A picky picker noted they were aftermarket with no "Stanley" markings. :confused:

caswellcanada.ca

6" String Buff - Caswell Canada

Buff Plastic without danger of melting. Choice of 1/2" or 3/4" hole.
caswellcanada.ca caswellcanada.ca
 
Started taking the front forks apart the other day and everything was going well until I tried to take the Allen bolt (#18) out of the bottom of the left fork leg. I was using a 6MM bit in a 3/8 socket but ended up rounding it out. Looks like the only option at this point is to drill the head off unless someone has a better solution. Have not tried the right leg yet. When it stripped I when back to the old Hee Haw song, "If it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all".

Fork Bolt.JPG
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If you have any Torx bits, see if you have one you can force into the allen head. Those can be damn tight at times and it helps to clamp the flat sides of the lower part of the slider in between a couple wood blocks in the vise to hold it still.
 
ancientdad said:
If you have any Torx bits, see if you have one you can force into the allen head. Those can be damn tight at times and it helps to clamp the flat sides of the lower part of the slider in between a couple wood blocks in the vise to hold it still.
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Good idea, I do have a good set of Torx bits in holders so will give that a try. I did have the leg clamped in a vise with wood blocks. Really want to save these as they appear to be in as good shape as most I have seen on E-bay.
 
First, add penetrating oil over a longer period. The bolt is steel, the fork-leg is aluminum, heat the aluminum a few times and every time after a heating cycle you add penetrating oil. After this "foreplay" you take a hammer, and beat the torx bit in the allen head. Usually I use an impact screwdriver, electric or air driven, but be carefull not to break the head off. Try to avoid drilling the head off, the surface underneath the bolt is flat for a reason.
 
jensen said:
First, add penetrating oil over a longer period. The bolt is steel, the fork-leg is aluminum, heat the aluminum a few times and every time after a heating cycle you add penetrating oil. After this "foreplay" you take a hammer, and beat the torx bit in the allen head. Usually I use an impact screwdriver, electric or air driven, but be carefull not to break the head off. Try to avoid drilling the head off, the surface underneath the bolt is flat for a reason.
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Thanks for the tips but I have a question. Is the fork leg threaded? I thought the Allen bolt went through a hole in the bottom of the fork leg and was threaded into the steel damper assembly. I am only going on what I see in the parts manual as I haven't had a set of these forks apart before.
 
RobMan said:
Thanks for the tips but I have a question. Is the fork leg threaded? I thought the Allen bolt went through a hole in the bottom of the fork leg and was threaded into the steel damper assembly. I am only going on what I see in the parts manual as I haven't had a set of these forks apart before.
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No, the lower fork leg hole is not threaded - it is as you suspect, but remember that the flat surface under the allen head is also a sealing surface for the fork fluid and the allen bolt has a copper washer on it, so if the flat surface gets damaged it might affect the seal where the copper washer sits.
 
ancientdad said:
No, the lower fork leg hole is not threaded - it is as you suspect, but remember that the flat surface under the allen head is also a sealing surface for the fork fluid and the allen bolt has a copper washer on it, so if the flat surface gets damaged it might affect the seal where the copper washer sits.
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Thanks for the confirmation on how it threads together. If I do end up drilling the head off I will step it so that I only use the smallest drill I have to. I am planning on using a piece of tape wrapped on the drill bit as a depth gauge to avoid going deeper then I have to as well. Hopefully I will be able to see copper shavings from the sealing washer that will tell me I have gone far enough.
 
RobMan said:
Thanks for the confirmation on how it threads together. If I do end up drilling the head off I will step it so that I only use the smallest drill I have to. I am planning on using a piece of tape wrapped on the drill bit as a depth gauge to avoid going deeper then I have to as well. Hopefully I will be able to see copper shavings from the sealing washer that will tell me I have gone far enough.
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Yeah, I'd drill that one only as a last resort. Hopefully the torx bit works and as Jensen said, find the one that fits the tightest and drive it into the head so it has the best fit possible.
 
Depending on how rounded it is, it’ll be either a T40 or T45 - usually T40.
 
I can't see how much of the fork leg you took apart already, but in my limited experience I was more successful getting that bolt loosened while the legs were still in place, so nothing else was able to rotate. The steel piece the bolt is threaded in can try to turn inside the leg, and that's very difficult to deal with. When it's all assembled in place the springs put a lot of force on that piece, which keeps it stable. It's clumsy to do the job in place, but all I was trying to do was crack the bolt loose, and remove it later.
 
wentwest said:
I can't see how much of the fork leg you took apart already, but in my limited experience I was more successful getting that bolt loosened while the legs were still in place, so nothing else was able to rotate. The steel piece the bolt is threaded in can try to turn inside the leg, and that's very difficult to deal with. When it's all assembled in place the springs put a lot of force on that piece, which keeps it stable. It's clumsy to do the job in place, but all I was trying to do was crack the bolt loose, and remove it later.
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If you're talking about your Bomber front forks, I think this is different. The later models have an allen bolt inside the bottom of the fork slider above the axle, so it can't be reached without removing the front wheel and axle and then the sliders have nothing to keep them from rotating on the upper tubes.

Bomber - https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partsl...ort-usa-front-cushion_bigma000064f02_64d9.gif

K5 and later - https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partsl...-k6-c5-k7cl450-k5-k6_big3IMG01171602_9ca3.gif
 
The damper inside the fork is threaded, the bolt presses the damper onto the bottom of the fork. Heat the outside lower part of the fork and bolt, and heat will reach the damper by conduction. The reason why the bolt is stuck is corrosion on the flat area underneath the bolt and corrosion between between bolt and damper. If these bolts where never taken out in all those years they can be very tight. The reason that your Allen key destroyed the bolt is that the bolt is made of mild steel, and I would suggest to use a hardened bolt when rebuilding.
 
Big thank you to @ancientdad and @jensen! Got the bolt out using heat, Torx bit and patience. Took about 3 cycles of heat and col and then hammered the Torx tip in. Great feeling when I felt the bolt break loose. Also used a piece of PEX pipe as a spacer to hold spring tension on the damper assembly. I am a bit concerned about the damper though as the rod doesn't travel smoothly up and down but tends to bind. I have been cleaning it with some kerosene and it is better. Started working on the other fork and doing heat and cool cycles.

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As stated earlier I started working on the other fork with a combination of penetrating oil, heat and cool cycles and tapping on the head of the Allen bolt to try to encourage it loosen up. I also ordered a new set of Metric Allen bits to make sure I had the best shot at getting it loose. Tried to break it loose a couple of times this afternoon but no joy, ended up rounding out the head. Didn't even get that bothered about it so heated up the lower leg again and I am letting the lower damper where the bolt screws in soak overnight in some genuine Honda ATF. I will try some more heat and cool cycles to night and tomorrow and then see if I can replicate the Torx tip trick. Patience weed hopper.
 
Drill the head off if it comes down to it. Done that more than once. Those JIS screws are very soft compared to Allen heads. I can't speak to your bike but Loctite was used on some of those bolts/screws, either by the factory or a PO. I always heat profusely first then hit it hard with a correct bit installed into the JIS or Allen head bolt. They normally will release quite easily with either a JIS correct bit or Allen head and impact driver.

You can never have too many correct tools in your quiver. :)

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Progress comes in inches or millimeters depending on the wrench in your hand. Finally got the bolt out of the other fork leg. I have been busy with the yard work my wife wanted done the last few days but I had been finding time to apply heat off and on. Had some time today and viced up the leg, heated for about 15 minutes and pounded a #45 Torx tip in. Started out with my battery powered 3/8 inch impact gun and the bolt laughed at me but the Torx tip was staying solid so said what the heck get out the bigger gun. Heated it up again and the used my old 1/2 inch plug in impact gun. After much laughter from the bolt, I finally felt some movement and I thought at first the head was stripping again but it was the bolt coming out. The copper sealing washer is still stuck on the fork leg but everything else looks OK. Got to clean up, inspect and the get parts ordered.
 
Been doing more cleanup on the front forks while I wait for the parts needed to rebuild them. The travel area of the tubes that go in the lower legs are clean and the tubes do not appear to be warped in spite of a pretty hard spill by the PO that took out the engine guard and handle bars on the left side. I rolled the on a flat surface and no visible wobble. Looking for suggestions on how to handle the corrosion and pitting on the upper part of the tubes that are covered by the fork ears, clamps and the boots. I am just wanting stop or least minimize the corrosion from restarting once it is put back together. I thought about light spraying with rust converter but wondering if there are better ideas out there.

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I wouldn't worry too much about that pitting. You can take a heavy grease and coat the metal after you apply a rust convertor product first.
 
The spray on rust converter, I think it’s called Extend, is exactly what I have used on the upper forks. Mask off as much good chrome as you can. The product that is sprayed onto good chrome remains a sticky mess.
 
Got the parts needed to rebuild my front forks yesterday, and realized I didn't order any fork oil. Checked the FSM and it says use hydraulic fluid and the Clymer manual says automatic transmission fluid. I have a quart of Honda ATF on hand but should I go ahead and purchase a quart of "Genuine Honda Fork Oil". The FSM supplement shows the following for the K5 on fork oil capacity. Any issues with following that guidance? The supplement says use Honda ATF as well.
 
RobMan said:
Got the parts needed to rebuild my front forks yesterday, and realized I didn't order any fork oil. Checked the FSM and it says use hydraulic fluid and the Clymer manual says automatic transmission fluid. I have a quart of Honda ATF on hand but should I go ahead and purchase a quart of "Genuine Honda Fork Oil". The FSM supplement shows the following for the K5 on fork oil capacity. Any issues with following that guidance? The supplement says use Honda ATF as well.
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The use of ATF back then was typical and because dedicated fork oil wasn't available. I haven't changed mine yet, but when I do the ATF I assembled it with 8 years ago will be replaced with 10w fork oil.
 
RobMan said:
Got the parts needed to rebuild my front forks yesterday, and realized I didn't order any fork oil. Checked the FSM and it says use hydraulic fluid and the Clymer manual says automatic transmission fluid. I have a quart of Honda ATF on hand but should I go ahead and purchase a quart of "Genuine Honda Fork Oil". The FSM supplement shows the following for the K5 on fork oil capacity. Any issues with following that guidance? The supplement says use Honda ATF as well.
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ATF is roughly a 5w20 oil, so it should work, just a little messier than fork oil. If you have a Cycle Gear or the like near you, they do stock 5,10,15 and 20 weight fork oil at a pretty reasonable price.
 
Ordered some 10w fork oil and a metric syringe from Amazon. Supposed to be here Thursday so I will tinker with some other parts n the mean time.


Trying to remove the right hand switch from the handle bars and see if I can salvage it. The left hand is broken from the accident which trashed the handlebars. That begs another question, is there a good source for OEM or close handlebars?

I found a repop set in Germany that is supposed to be OEM about $120 with shipping,and who know with tariffs. Also the fitment chart show it fits up to a CB750.

www.ebay.com

Honda CB 450 K chrome handlebar pipe reproduction US style | eBay

New reproduktion handlebar "Made in Japan" with inside cable routing for the following models Honda Motorcycle Models with no year CB450K4 A Handlebar / Top Bridge. Honda Motorcycle Models with no year CB450K7 A Handlebar / Top Bridge.
www.ebay.com

I also found these on Ebay but not sure how close they would be to OEM. Price is good but shipping is very high. I have to admit I am not real confident in my measuring skills or the vendors for that matter.

www.ebay.com

Dixie Brand Cafe 7/8" Handlebars Honda 1970-1974 CB450 53100-319-000 PU-13 | eBay

Location: OSE1A1C. Hi/AK/PR/APO AP may be higher.
www.ebay.com

Back in the day I would have taken the bent bars, put them in the fork of a tree and took a pipe to it till it broke or fit. Shucks just needs a little tweaking. :unsure:

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No giant steps for mankind but made a little progress, with the fork tubes reassembled and serviced with 10W fork oil, wrapped in packing paper and set aside for reassembly of the front end. I also got the steering lock out of the lower fork bridge, cleaned up and working properly, thanks to @12ozPBR for the keys when I first started this spiral into madness last year. De-rusted the lower bridge and painted. I have been working on trying to salvage the the brake caliper but its slow going, with the pads rusted firmly in place, After soaking with PB Blaster and Kroil I was able to get the pad loose from the back plate but it took a chisel and a hammer smacking the the exposed metal part of the pad to get it to pop loose. Regretfully the piston side does not have an exposed part of the pad metal back plate to hit with a punch or chisel. I have tried several cycles of soaking, heating smoking hot with a heat gun and then applied air pressure at the pipe fitting but zero movement. I have seen where some people resort to getting an adapter to connect a grease fitting to the caliper and push the piston out with a grease gun. Not sure if its worth the effort to try to save it or just cut bait and buy a new one.
 
If it’s that corroded, the cylinder for the brake piston is more than likely toast.

I’ve done the grease gun thing with other wedged on brakes. Doesn’t really work and it’s messy as hell. Almost better off just running brake fluid in there.
 
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EzPete said:
If it’s that corroded, the cylinder for the brake piston is more than likely toast.

I’ve done the grease gun thing with other wedged yo brakes. Doesn’t really work and it’s messy as hell. Almost better off just running brake fluid in there.
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Honestly I am sure I will need to replace the caliper, master system along with the all the hoses, lines and fittings which are all rough. I really don't want to have a mess of brake fluid dripping all over the bike the first time I ride it. o_O

The disc looks good but may send it to have it resurfaced, perhaps at Truedisc which @Flyin900 mentioned in a post recently
 
RobMan said:
Honestly I am sure I will need to replace the caliper, master system along with the all the hoses, lines and fittings which are all rough. I really don't want to have a mess of brake fluid dripping all over the bike the first time I ride it. o_O

The disc looks good but may send it to have it resurfaced, perhaps at Truedisc which @Flyin900 mentioned in a post recently
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Good dude. Super fast work too. He was the only place I could find that would take the discs for my GL build and grind them down a mm. Door to door was 8 days I think? Pretty reasonable pricing.
 
EzPete said:
Good dude. Super fast work too. He was the only place I could find that would take the discs for my GL build and grind them down a mm. Door to door was 8 days I think? Pretty reasonable pricing.
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Yes the price he quotes on his web page is fair and if the shipping is about what he says then cheaper then buying a new disc from 4into1. What sucks is that there are fewer and fewer local shops doing that kind of work but we live in a buy it, use it toss and replace society.
 
Pulled the brake rotor off the front hub and found it to be in really good shape. Other then a very slight bit of surface rust there was no grooving or other signs of wear. there didn't appear to be any lip when I ran a a fingernail across the disc. I do need to measure the disc thickness which according to the FSM is no less than 6MM.

I also was taking a look at the header pipes and mufflers which will need a good clean to see if they can be salvaged. I may end up painting the mufflers for the short term especially seeing the performance modification the PO did which I am sure doubled the horsepower and made the bike sound awesome.

IMG_4893[1].JPG

Appears a hammer and chisel was involved here.
 
Just got home from driving to visit my daughter and grandchildren in Kansas, my brother and sister in southeast Oklahoma and then back home to North Carolina, 11 days and a bit over 2500 miles, Yep a bit tired and the trip seems a little longer each time. Not sure if anyone got them but I was sending big hellos via ESP to other members when I went through their neck of the woods, @stl360+450 in St Louis, @EzPete downi n Texas and @Danager4792 as I was gripping the wheel going through Memphis. Glad to be home and hoping to get a little progress done on 450. :cool:
 
RobMan said:
Just got home from driving to visit my daughter and grandchildren in Kansas, my brother and sister in southeast Oklahoma and then back home to North Carolina, 11 days and a bit over 2500 miles, Yep a bit tired and the trip seems a little longer each time. Not sure if anyone got them but I was sending big hellos via ESP to other members when I went through their neck of the woods, @stl360+450 in St Louis, @EzPete downi n Texas and @Danager4792 as I was gripping the wheel going through Memphis. Glad to be home and hoping to get a little progress done on 450. :cool:
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There are times when I found it was actually cheaper to fly, if it's just you travelling alone.
 
wentwest said:
There are times when I found it was actually cheaper to fly, if it's just you travelling alone.
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It is not the expense in my case, most of it is how much I have come to detest commercial air travel today. I would rather load up in C130 or C141 sitting in canvas troop seats then have to deal with the stockyard cattle car experience we call air travel today. With that said this will probably be my last road trip like this. In the future I will fly to Kansas City to visit my daughter and then take a separate flight to DFW when I visit my brother and sister. I tell ya this getting "Older" is not all its cracked up to be and I would not have done it if I had known. :rolleyes:
 
RobMan said:
It is not the expense in my case, most of it is how much I have come to detest commercial air travel today. I would rather load up in C130 or C141 sitting in canvas troop seats then have to deal with the stockyard cattle car experience we call air travel today. With that said this will probably be my last road trip like this. In the future I will fly to Kansas City to visit my daughter and then take a separate flight to DFW when I visit my brother and sister. I tell ya this getting "Older" is not all its cracked up to be and I would not have done it if I had known. :rolleyes:
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I know the feeling of a painful long road trip and mine are less than half of what you just did. Getting harder and harder to get up for it each year.
 
A while ago I discovered that a hearing impairment is a disability that allows you to pre-board. I certainly have that problem and I'm not ashamed to admit it, and pre- boarding changes the whole experience a lot more than I ever expected. And they happily let my wife accompany me. Check it out if you think you might qualify.
 
wentwest said:
A while ago I discovered that a hearing impairment is a disability that allows you to pre-board. I certainly have that problem and I'm not ashamed to admit it, and pre- boarding changes the whole experience a lot more than I ever expected. And they happily let my wife accompany me. Check it out if you think you might qualify.
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Interesting, having CI's may qualify
 
RobMan said:
Just got home from driving to visit my daughter and grandchildren in Kansas, my brother and sister in southeast Oklahoma and then back home to North Carolina, 11 days and a bit over 2500 miles, Yep a bit tired and the trip seems a little longer each time. Not sure if anyone got them but I was sending big hellos via ESP to other members when I went through their neck of the woods, @stl360+450 in St Louis, @EzPete downi n Texas and @Danager4792 as I was gripping the wheel going through Memphis. Glad to be home and hoping to get a little progress done on 450. :cool:
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That’s hilarious. I was just setting up our regular late spring hog hunt up in OK and we were looking at Rocking J in Boswell, so somewhere the ESP came through.
 
EzPete said:
That’s hilarious. I was just setting up our regular late spring hog hunt up in OK and we were looking at Rocking J in Boswell, so somewhere the ESP came through.
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Crazy small world, Boswell is my home town where I grew up although only older people would remember me as I left for the Air Force in 1976. Don't believe anything your told! I didn't do it or if I did they can't prove it! :)
 
Patience and searching the webverse paid off and found a set of used handlebars off a 1973 CB450 for my project off ebay. No evidence of damage and chrome looks good although I am sure seller shined them up. I really wanted stock bars so there would be no issues with cable length or switch attachment. Cost was very reasonable $17.00 but shipping almost double. :) Before ordering confirmed the same handlebars used on the K3-K7.

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