stl360+450
Veteran Member
Sounds like Dan only needs one turn signal body. Focusing on the body itself, am I correct in thinking that the front and rear assemblies are identical, aside from the wire color coding for left/right?
-
Don't overlook our Welcome Package, it contains many links to important and helpful information about functions at VHT like posting pictures and sending PMs (private messages), as well as finding the parts you need.
AD
1971 CL450 that sat for 40 years.
- Thread starter Danager4792
- Start date
If it doesn't have running lights on the front, then yes. And the CL450K4 did not.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Should there be an audible “click” or sound from the spring/plunger when I adjust the cam chain?
Do spark plugs need to be out when turning the crankshaft?
Do spark plugs need to be out when turning the crankshaft?
Sometimes you'll hear something from it, usually when the adjuster moves more than usual meaning it hasn't been adjusted in a while. Most of the time when maintenance is fairly regular, you won't hear it. I'm guessing yours hasn't had regular maintenance. But, there's also the possibility that the adjuster is stuck from sitting a long time too. You've probably noticed that the tensioner body has a hole in the back of the shaft area, so you can stick a rod or 90° tipped tool of some sort into the end of it and give it a light push if you suspect it doesn't move. Do NOT push it to enhance the tensioning though, it's a good way to cause early death of the tensioner roller that is probably hard rubber now.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
I think you won't hear the plunger normally because it's already against the cam chain.
Removing the plugs will make it easier to turn the motor by hand, but it's not necessary.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Cam chain adjustment is done. Now for valves. I’m reading over your previous notes towards bottom of the 1st page
Danager4792
Veteran Member
The left cylinder valves were so tight, that my thinnest .003” feeler gauge would not go in them
Pretty sure you mean "narrowest" .003" feeler, since it's .003" thin...
Danager4792
Veteran Member
I will take the VHT terminology class after the stress is gone from adjusting these right valves correctly lolPretty sure you mean "narrowest" .003" feeler, since it's .003" thin...
Danager4792
Veteran Member
When spinning the crankshaft to set the right valves, do I visually wait until the right exhaust valve is closed, or the right intake valve?
stl360+450
Veteran Member
After you turn to LT with TDC of the compression stroke for the left cylinder, you rotate 180 degrees to the T mark to get TDC of the compression stroke on the right cylinder. Both right intake and exhaust valves should be closed at this point.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
So big mistake on my part. FSM says
0.03 mm (0.0012" in.)
I was using this feeler gauge:
0.3 mm (0.012” in.)
The lowest my set goes is:
0.04mm (0.0015” in.)
Will that be good to use?
0.03 mm (0.0012" in.)
I was using this feeler gauge:
0.3 mm (0.012” in.)
The lowest my set goes is:
0.04mm (0.0015” in.)
Will that be good to use?
I saw the .003" reference earlier, but because your engine hasn't run in a long time you would do just fine to leave it there for now, and I'd set the right side valves at .003" too. Run it for a few miles and do another valve adjustment later.
Do as Brody suggested but to confirm, you always look for the intake valve to close because after that comes TDC on compression stroke (both valves closed).
You might find this interesting.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
Yes, 0.012" is way too big! But, thankfully, you noticed before going too far.
I try to get mine pretty close using flat stock that I ordered online, but 0.003" will do fine and is probably easier to achieve.
I totally missed that, read it as .0012.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
I definitely missed it too when looking over the feeler gauges.
After triple checking, the lowest gauge I have is .0015 - Next size up is .003
The factory calls for .0012". Back when I worked at Honda dealerships we used to set them at .0015" since feeler stock of that thickness was available. Since even that is pretty snug, I've since set them at .002". the shortness of the followers in the 450 engine keeps them from making as much loud "clacking" noise as other twins like the 350 when they're loose. Since your engine hasn't been run for a (possibly long) while, that's why I suggested .003" above. If there is any buildup of deposits on the seats, or even rust on one that was open while sitting, it might change a bit once you run it a bit so .003" will be fine for now. As I mentioned earlier, you can always reset them in 500 miles or so, at which point I'd change the oil again as well considering you'll be learning a lot about the engine's overall health during that time.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Sounds good AD. I am actually about to be doing another oil change. The original oil was 40 year old gunk that had metal glitter in it. Maybe the little bit of idling I did, let the fresh oil circulate enough to “clean” it out.
If it got up to full running temp, maybe. If it was mine I'd probably dump it again too, best to do more than less.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
I have a new starter solenoid, condenser, coils, and spark plug boots on the way.
I was always curious what the deal was with this right spark plug wire.
I was always curious what the deal was with this right spark plug wire.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
The caps essentially screw in to the plug wire to establish the connection. When it gets sloppy after many years, you can clip off about 2 cm and redo it. Yours is missing the rubber seal that covers the joint, protects it from moisture, and helps secure the twist-on connection.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Yeah there is no way these two are screwing back together. Didn’t know you could trim them
Danager4792
Veteran Member
This new gasket does not match my intake valve cover “plate”. Still ok to use?
Last edited:
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Take a pick or thin nail and spread the wires so the screw goes up the center.
Notice the greenish color in the spark plug wire? That's corrosion that should trimmed off
Where did you get the gaskets? Did you buy a top end set, or just the valve cover gaskets? There was a change in the crankcase baffle plate along the way and the vent holes were moved as you can see by the differences. I believe your original is the later version. Do you have the baffle plate on the intake cover? I neglected to mention the intake cover needs 2 gaskets, I'm so used to having multiples on hand that it didn't occur to me for your situation.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
I know in some cases, those guys in Houston can be the most logical option to purchase something. I bought a complete gasket set from them. When I looked at the 4into1 set, someone complained about missing gaskets. I actually don’t have a baffle plate for the exhaust valve cover.
Edit: The plate you see pictured on the left, came off the inside of the intake valve cover.
The kit came with about 4-5 valve cover gaskets
Last edited:
Since most gasket sets are sourced from a handful of suppliers, the sets from most aftermarket sellers come from one of 3 of the usual brands (whether the label says so or not), Vesrah, NE and Athena, and I can vouch for the quality of Vesrah and NE as I've used both. But the manufacturers all make the same mistakes when gathering and packaging these sets, they include valve stem seals that are often incorrect or aren't even used on some engines, o-rings that are incorrect/not used or even for a different engine entirely, and omissions of gaskets where more than one is required like the valve cover gaskets for the 450. I asked about the baffle plate because at one time the proper gaskets were full-sized and looked like your plate (black in color from crankcase gasses), not just the perimeter of the plate but completely solid so I assumed you were showing me 2 different gaskets. You can mark and cut those holes in the proper locations since the plate will cover the holes in the wrong locations. There is no baffle plate on the exhaust valve cover, it's located on the intake because that's where the crankcase breather tube is located.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
You would be correct. The left baffle plate still has the original gasket on it. I haven taken it off yet, because I didn’t know if I would need to salvage it. That’s a good idea to cut out holes in the new gasket. Is the breather tube supposed to have a rubber tube connected to it? It looks like I’m seeing one on the parts diagram
Yes, it's a long road draft tube that goes down behind the engine in front of the swingarm and ends just below the bottom of the frame. If it's missing from the bike, it will be a difficult find because the stock breather hose is thin-walled and of course, metric diameter. If you buy locally supplied hose from a parts store it will not fit properly and will have huge wall thickness. I found that the Yamaha XS650 breather tube is essentially the same but now they're hard to find as well.
David Silver Spares sells an aftermarket version, hard to tell by the single picture of the wall thickness is the same.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
I’ll have to check that out. What are the downsides of not having one for the time being?David Silver Spares sells an aftermarket version, hard to tell by the single picture of the wall thickness is the same.
Edit: Found this.
Breather Hose - Engine - With Spring - Black - XS650 - XV750 - XV1100
Color/Finish: Black Material: Rubber/Steel Dimensions: Hose length: 12 in Spring length: 10 in Fits: Yamaha XS650, XV750, XV1100 OEM Ref: 90501-101J3-00
www.mikesxs.net
NOS Honda Breather Tube 1968 - 1974 CB450 CL450 K1 K2 K3 K4 K5 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NOS Honda Breather Tube 1968 - 1974 CB450 CL450 K1 K2 K3 K4 K5 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Downside of not having one is oil mist from blow-by gasses all over the battery box, air filters and under the tank, so you want one on there before you ride it at all. That one you found is the later version that is only 1 foot long and connects at a catch-box to separate the mist and recycle the 'air' back into the air filter, not long enough to do the job right. I finally found the one I bought, they changed their listings since I bought mine.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Wow. Thanks again. Will be ordering this tonightDownside of not having one is oil mist from blow-by gasses all over the battery box, air filters and under the tank, so you want one on there before you ride it at all. That one you found is the later version that is only 1 foot long and connects at a catch-box to separate the mist and recycle the 'air' back into the air filter, not long enough to do the job right. I finally found the one I bought, they changed their listings since I bought mine.
I knew they should have them, about 4 years ago I went to Dime City's local store in Tampa and bought a few things for my drag bike project including one of these long breather hoses and it's a good fit, plus longer than stock so you can cut it to fit the length you want. Just took some part number cross-referencing to find it in the conglomerate that is DCC/Mike'sXS/Z-1 Enterprises/Randakk's group. (never done it with Yamaha parts until today, LOL, never owned one)
Danager4792
Veteran Member
I also remember reading that the xs650 advancer springs are a possible fit on a vintage Honda CB/CL. I wonder what else is compatible lol
Really, I'd imagine a lot of general parts might be interchangeable, but anything like switches, controls and manufacturer-specific engine and ignition parts would be less likely. There are some here who have used other brand pistons in some of our twins but that's something requiring some adaptation.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
While I am waiting on parts to arrive, I figured it would be wise to go ahead and figure out a solution for the seat.
I contacted a nice person who runs an upholstery business out of his house. Navy-retired, and has 117 five star ratings on google reviews. He quoted me $200 for a new hand-stitched cover, and for it to be re-foamed.
Upon looking closer at the seat, I noticed the bottom left side is warped and bent out at the bottom(left of the strap, 1st picture above).
Also, there is substantial rust on the seat pan.
Trying to figure out the most logical option. If I go to this guy and get a new cover and foam, then the rusted and warped seat pan will still be a problem. Definitely trying to stay OEM but will consider all options.. Thanks
Am also thinking that I could get more bang for my buck with $200, but I’m not sure what the market is like for “hand-stitched” upholstery work.
I contacted a nice person who runs an upholstery business out of his house. Navy-retired, and has 117 five star ratings on google reviews. He quoted me $200 for a new hand-stitched cover, and for it to be re-foamed.
Upon looking closer at the seat, I noticed the bottom left side is warped and bent out at the bottom(left of the strap, 1st picture above).
Also, there is substantial rust on the seat pan.
Trying to figure out the most logical option. If I go to this guy and get a new cover and foam, then the rusted and warped seat pan will still be a problem. Definitely trying to stay OEM but will consider all options.. Thanks
Am also thinking that I could get more bang for my buck with $200, but I’m not sure what the market is like for “hand-stitched” upholstery work.
Attachments
Last edited:
stl360+450
Veteran Member
There are high-quality replacement seat covers available for less than $100. Seat foam for many models are also available, although I'm not sure if there's a readily available exact replacement for your model/year. Sirius Consolidated is one place to check, along with eBay.
I just did this for a CB350 seat pan after welding the pan to address cracks.
I just did this for a CB350 seat pan after welding the pan to address cracks.
If you decide to do the seat yourself, there's always Evaporust or the stuff Jim found, Bilt Hamber Deox-C to remove the rust on the pan and hopefully it won't be weakened by the level of rust it has.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Could the evaporust be brushed onto the seat pan, or does it have to be submerged?
Evaporust is a thin liquid so you'd have to find a rectangular container to submerge it in, closer to the size of the pan the better since a gallon jug of it would probably do the job in a container of the right size, shape and depth.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Ok, I’ll give that a try.
I’m liking this seat cover, as it matches close enough to the square pattern on my seat.
CL350 K3 and CL450 K4 1971 New seat cover Honda CL 350 450 Scrambler 156 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for CL350 K3 and CL450 K4 1971 New seat cover Honda CL 350 450 Scrambler 156 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
I would be curious how to tackle the foam. Has that topic been covered here before?
Here are site-specific search results for "replacement seat foam"
ballbearian
Veteran Member
It's hard to beat ebay seller gumtwo for quality and price on replacement covers. Your first priority is getting the pan up to snuff. the side edges always rust the worst. Carefully pry the pointy cover spikes out just enough to get the cover off (they beak off easily enough) then assess the side edges and decide if you want to patch any rotten metal with some similar scrap steel sheet, same for stress cracks. Evapo and Deox aren't cheap (I save that for tanks and chrome fenders) but white vinegar is cheap. Seat pans need to be strong but really pretty.
Danager4792
Veteran Member
Cam Shaft End Covers***
I am going to be replacing four gaskets at the very top of the engine. Two of them have a leak. I was curious if there’s anything I need to know before taking them off? I just realized I will have to reset my valve adjustment, as I will probably disturb the adjuster screw.
I am going to be replacing four gaskets at the very top of the engine. Two of them have a leak. I was curious if there’s anything I need to know before taking them off? I just realized I will have to reset my valve adjustment, as I will probably disturb the adjuster screw.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
Following the FSM, one wouldn't normally remove those cam bearings with the cam chain still connected. The process described in the FSM involves disconnecting the cam chain and then disassembling the head, including the cylinder head side covers (cam bearings) where you want to replace the gaskets.
Removing those bearings while they are under load could cause damage to the bearing surfaces. To avoid that, you'd want to work with one cam at a time by making sure both intake (or both exhaust valves) are closed at the same time.
I've only replaced them with the cam chain split, so I would recommend waiting for Tom (ancientdad) to weigh in on the best way to safely replace those gaskets.
Removing those bearings while they are under load could cause damage to the bearing surfaces. To avoid that, you'd want to work with one cam at a time by making sure both intake (or both exhaust valves) are closed at the same time.
I've only replaced them with the cam chain split, so I would recommend waiting for Tom (ancientdad) to weigh in on the best way to safely replace those gaskets.
I've discovered this morning that the search feature with Xenforo is not much better than our old software. I spent over an hour using the forum search, the advanced forum search and site-specific Google search trying to find a thread in which I gave specific, detailed instructions on how to safely do what you want to do and I cannot find it. It happened in a thread where a member started to do that gasket replacement and did NOT follow the instructions specifically, and rotated the engine once he had one of the cam bearings removed. He was never heard from again, but I suspect it was not a good result.
While this thread below is not about replacing the gaskets specifically, it amounts to the exact same procedure. Note that the OP had NEVER done this work on a DOHC 450 prior and because he listened and followed the procedure correctly, he did it without any issues. To avoid any accidental change in cam timing while replacing the cam bearing gaskets one by one, only one at a time and NOT rotating the engine at any point during the operation until each cam bearing is re-installed in order to position the engine to do the next cam bearing, follow this procedure as outlined. And, I'd strongly suggest reading the entire thread through, then asking any questions you might have, then re-reading the thread again to be sure you fully understand both the importance of following it verbatim but the consequences of not doing so as well, before attempting to do this yourself.
www.vintagehondatwins.com
While this thread below is not about replacing the gaskets specifically, it amounts to the exact same procedure. Note that the OP had NEVER done this work on a DOHC 450 prior and because he listened and followed the procedure correctly, he did it without any issues. To avoid any accidental change in cam timing while replacing the cam bearing gaskets one by one, only one at a time and NOT rotating the engine at any point during the operation until each cam bearing is re-installed in order to position the engine to do the next cam bearing, follow this procedure as outlined. And, I'd strongly suggest reading the entire thread through, then asking any questions you might have, then re-reading the thread again to be sure you fully understand both the importance of following it verbatim but the consequences of not doing so as well, before attempting to do this yourself.
Nervous about changing followers
This is a little embarrassing, but I'm really nervous about taking this engine off the frame and changing out all four followers. I have no idea how complex this is and the prospect of dropping a motor and/or buggering things up has me holding back on this job. This is the set of NOS followers...
www.vintagehondatwins.com
ballbearian
Veteran Member
The first guy is helping to make these vintage bikes even more rare. Don't be that guy.I've discovered this morning that the search feature with Xenforo is not much better than our old software. I spent over an hour using the forum search, the advanced forum search and site-specific Google search trying to find a thread in which I gave specific, detailed instructions on how to safely do what you want to do and I cannot find it. It happened in a thread where a member started to do that gasket replacement and did NOT follow the instructions specifically, and rotated the engine once he had one of the cam bearings removed. He was never heard from again, but I suspect it was not a good result.
While this thread below is not about replacing the gaskets specifically, it amounts to the exact same procedure. Note that the OP had NEVER done this work on a DOHC 450 prior and because he listened and followed the procedure correctly, he did it without any issues. To avoid any accidental change in cam timing while replacing the cam bearing gaskets one by one, only one at a time and NOT rotating the engine at any point during the operation until each cam bearing is re-installed in order to position the engine to do the next cam bearing, follow this procedure as outlined. And, I'd strongly suggest reading the entire thread through, then asking any questions you might have, then re-reading the thread again to be sure you fully understand both the importance of following it verbatim but the consequences of not doing so as well, before attempting to do this yourself.
Nervous about changing followers
This is a little embarrassing, but I'm really nervous about taking this engine off the frame and changing out all four followers. I have no idea how complex this is and the prospect of dropping a motor and/or buggering things up has me holding back on this job. This is the set of NOS followers...