The build of The Three Twins (CB450's, maybe 4), an inquiry into Differences and Similarities

Since I have two ultrasonic cleaners taken home from work (see CB400f thread), I figured out to start cleaning the CB450 carburettors as well (and CB72 and dream carburettors). I forgot how many sets I had, CB450 K0 and on, even a few CB500T carburettors. After cleaning all the parts, I will make a few good sets for the K0, K1's and K2's.

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K0, K1, K2 in different bags as a set. Some are dirty, some are cleaned, but not in a ultrasonic bath.



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CB72's sets, by pairs in bags

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Cleaned C77 dream carburettors ready for assembly.
 
Sometimes work and hobby's come together in a nice way. Last week I found out that the AM department of our company will buy an ATOS-GOM, see link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiooQ3rCnvA. I'm sure I will spend some evenings with this new "co-worker" together with some hard to get CB450 engine parts, large and small. It's able to scan a complete engine, or even a complete frame, with an accuracy of 0,05 mm or better (depends on the resolution and virtual bounding box). Small parts like cam's, cam followers and many other parts can be scanned within an accuracy range of 0,004 mm. The export is a 3D model or/and 2 D drawings which can be used for CAD-CAM machines.

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An impressive amount of work you've accomplished with the carbs. I enjoyed reviewing this whole thread. What possible uses will you put the new equipment to, I wonder?
 
The first thing I want to do is to scan a NOS CB450 K0 dynamo side cover and copy it a few times. The second thing I want to do is to scan a 10 NOS cam followers to make a "golden average model", and think how to duplicate these. A complete cylinder head is also on the list, not for copying, but to see how it's build up.
 
Goods news from the paint shop, parts are ready to paint. I do a lot of things myself, but painting, and making parts paint ready isn't one of them. This kind of work and quality is above my head.

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Two sets K1 and one set K2. One front fork with covers (US type) and two European types. When these parts are ready I will throw in all the black parts of the K1 and K2, including 1 or two sets of black bomber parts.
 
I know you keep track of the budgets for your builds. If you are willing to discuss costs of things like this fine paint work, I would find it interesting. I imagine you save some by having the three sets painted together.
 
Yes, I keep track on the budgets for this build, and yes, no problem to share costs. However, cost aren't comparable on a global scale, it's important to keep that in mind.

But first the value of these bikes when ready, because to me that's a starting point. It doesn't mean that the total costs for a resto shouldn't be higher than the value, but it's a good guide of what is sensible.
.
CB450 K1, complete original and restored condition is worth around 4000 to 5000 euro. Maybe more, but not realistic
CB450 K2 complete and original condition is worth around 3000 to 4000 euro, I have seen bike's that go for more, but also for less.
CB450 K0 complete original is worth 6000 to 7000, however, it's hard to predict since not many are for sale.

Adding these (average) numbers gives a total budget of two times 4500 for the K1's, one time 3500 for the K2 and an additional 6500 for the bomber, making 19.000 euro.

Bikes are not coming for free, so I have to subtract the buying costs if these bikes first.

The CB450 K1 Dutch version set me back 1000 euro, I got it as a non runner, in parts, without mufflers and a broken engine. It seemed a steep price, but it's a very low serial number, and it had all the Dutch features like the mudflap, Dutch rear fender, Dutch metal headlight shell, Dutch winkers etc.
The CB450 K1 US version set me back 0 euro, got if for free, however, I had to pay for shipping from the US, and the shipment included many extra parts and a few CB72's and a CB77. I calculate 350 euro for this bike.
The CB450 K2 US version set me back 1500 euro, and was in the same shipment as the above bike, so another 350 euro added to the costs.
The CB450 K0 is more difficult to calculate, since I got this bike (in parts) in a stash of parts with frames etc. I can build at least 2 complete bike out of this stash, plus spares, so let's say I paid 1000 euro for 1 bike.

In total this makes 4200 euro's, and after subtraction the total (fictive) budget for restoration is 14.800 euro's.

You asked about the paint job, and the answer to that question is average 600 euro per set, meaning 1800 euro's in total, so I have left a fictive amount of 13.000 euro's to build 4 bikes.

However, in the bomber stash alone there are 3 frames, 4 engines, 6 fuel tanks, chrome panels, speedo's, complete sets of carbs, mudguards (front and rear), headlight cases, front forks, rear forks, chain cases, horns, wheels and many small parts. I need a certain amount of parts for at least two bombers to complete (two frames have papers, one not, and it's cut) but there will be many parts left. These parts have a value, so I can add this to the virtual budget. The same for the extra parts for the K1 and K2, many of those parts represent a certain value. It's difficult to give price tags, but realistically I can add at least 6000 euro to the budget. I already sold 2 fuel tanks, 1 speedo and a front mudguard, so I know it's a realistic pricing. It's a pity that shipping to the US is expensive, because there the selling prices are much better.

So, in total a realistic budget after painting is 19.000 euro, including the sold parts.

I will share the above in an excel sheet over time, but did not start to do that jet.
 
Thanks for the willingness to share the budgeting information. I'm interested mainly out of curiosity and I find your organization impressive, not only with the technical aspects of the builds, but in the careful accounting for the sale of spares. It takes a lot of work to build up a parts cache like this, sort through it, and determine what's required for the builds. Are you planning to keep all three finished bikes in your collection long term?
 
The last 25 years I keep track of all parts I have, NOS and used. All info is written down in an Excel sheet. I have six categories of information, namely :

- item information
- part number information
- bike information
- buying information
- price information
- storage information

Per row:

- unique item number
- state of item (NOS/used quality)
- part number
- part number break down (item group thus first 5 digits, 3 digit model code, 3 digit follow-up code, and if needed color code etc)
- date of buying
- bike type (CB450 K1 CB72, CB350 etc)
- cross references
- where or from whom I bought or got it
- price I paid for
- minimum sales price
- bag nr, box nr.
- shelf nr., rack nr.
- location

Every item has a unique number, and is connected to a database of pictures where the name of the picture is this number. Most items are photographed, some not, and working on it.
It seems to be a lot of work, but if you do it every time you get a part, it doesn't take much time at all, except when getting a large batch of stuff at once.

This way I can find parts easily and, when I pass away, my wife and kids can manage them selves.
 
Ok that is pretty impressive with all of this as noted above from the work place to the level of detail on the record keeping of the bikes and parts. Do you have that paint shop at work too that did the primer, or is that a outside supplier who does your work?
 
All your work will also benefit future restorors to have those parts available and not lost or thrown away. So, many anonymos thanks you's.
 
Ok that is pretty impressive with all of this as noted above from the work place to the level of detail on the record keeping of the bikes and parts. Do you have that paint shop at work too that did the primer, or is that a outside supplier who does your work?

Preparation, bodywork and paintwork is in the hands of one company. He is using epoxy to achieve that kind of finish. The paint is ink, but with a UV resistant top coat, since ink cannot withstand UV.

Are you planning to keep all three finished bikes in your collection long term?

Yes, I'm planning to keep all four bikes for myself, as my both sons will both want and get a CB450 K0 and a CB450 K1. The K2 on the other hand will be my daily rider. Normally I always want to build as original as possible, this bike will be an exception because I like to add E-ignition, voltage regulation etc, and will be painted in a color that has never found it's way to the K2's and that's my favorite (next to candy flake orange) candy blue-green with an euro-style front fork (gathers instead of metal bushings) and a metal head light shell.
 
Yes, I'm planning to keep all four bikes for myself, as my both sons will both want and get a CB450 K0 and a CB450 K1. The K2 on the other hand will be my daily rider.

That's an admirable motivation for the three builds. Very cool. I'm curious to see that candy blue green color, too.
 
Amazing to see all those 50+ year old shiny parts. I might be asking for a sale of some of your spares should I not be able to source them on this side of the pond. ??????
 
Finally, after 16 months or so,I got a few parts back from the paintshop. He promised me that the rest will be ready before the end of this year, we'll see.

He started with, to me, the most difficult colour, namely the candy blue green. He said this is the most time-consuming of them all, since it's build up of many layers. He started with white epoxy primer, then a silver layer, then a few thin green layers and finally a few thin blue layers. After adding the striping decals, 2 layers of high gloss. I know it looks better then original but I'm happy with the results.

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The white spot is just a bit of dust.

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As described earlier, this bike has two sets of paintwork, one European set with a painted fork bushings and headlight case in colour, and one set original black fork bushings and head light case.
 
That will be some exceptional bike! Your work is always an inspiration, keep em coming.:drool:
 
If you're not in a hurry (and you aren't) and the quality of work is this nice, it's definitely worth waiting for. Very nice.
 
I know it's difficult on a picture, but what about the colour ? There are so many shades of this colour on the CB750's and later CB450's, that it is really hard to match. I had several NOS parts with this colour, and these parts differed in colour out of the bag. Since these colours are very hard to paint (building up of thin layers) the mix of green and blue has to be just right, and I think he nailed it !
 
I haven't seen that color in person in a very long time but from what I recall and from pictures I've seen, it looks right.
 
Beautiful. You set the bar so high that it's intimidating to mortals like me...

Come on, I have nothing to do with the quality of painting, I just found the right guy for the right job and being very patient...


I'm curious how the bike will look like in this colour, this is what the bike looked like before disassembly.

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and this is one of the NOS parts with the colour:

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The candy red and candy blue (both early K1's) sets are painted the coming weeks, so hoping to have everything at home at the end of year.
 
Happens to be my favorite color. It is a difficult balance. Blue is a true 'cool' color, whereas green tends towards the 'warm' spectrum, being a combo of yellow and blue. It tickles your eye because it's right in the middle, emotionally. Use of a silver base would pull towards the cool, but a gold base would draw warmer. Your painter is an adept color artist.

I bet you can't wait to get it into the sunshine.
 
Awesome colours.
Is your black a high gloss enamel or a basecoat clear coat?

Having painted a couple of early Kawasaki's with the Candy Paint, I did a lot of research first. The biggest problem was that the colour is added to the clearcoat. Then depending on how thick the layers or how many layers were put on, it drastically changes the hue of the colour. At the factory, even if they had a colour sample in front of them, if the side covers were not painted at the same time or by the same painter, there could be a slight difference in the shade. This made it difficult to replace just one painted part on a bike afterwards.

The bike in my avatar I ended up painting it with a Toyota Ruby Pearl Flare, then used the same paint to tint my clear coat ( took 2 coloured clear coats) to get the same hue and shade of the original sample I had. Not quite the same process as original but the final product was very very close, and still took 11 layers including stripes, decals and 2 final clear clear coats.
 
I bet you can't wait to get it into the sunshine.

You're right !

The actual costs where a little higher due to more work to getting things straight. These fuel tanks are not 100 % symmetrical like modern stuff, and he found more damages then expected. No problem.

btw, here is a picture of the man and his work :

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A totally different bike then mine, build by himself (and painted).
 
Thankyou Jensen for sharing that man's creation. Full of wonderful surprises there. Humor me, when I get old, I want a lift chair to help me get up from sitting and a lift seat, like that to help get me off the bike!:biggrin:
 
A few weeks ago I started a thread about an ad at our local internet market place. The prices of the CB450 K0 bomber parts where low, and the quality was moderate to good. I actually bought a few things like a K0 kickstarted, a K0 shift shaft, a K0 horn, a K1 horn, K0 rear passenger foot rests, a complete K0 wire harness with winker wires including starter relay and a Dutch / German key/contact switch with key. I was looking for this key switch a long time. The switch differs from all other non Dutch / German switches because it has one wire extra. It isn't a police switch, it's larger than a standard switch, and it has it's own switch bracket (larger). Unfortunately the switch key was damaged but restored now. The switch has 6 wires, and 4 positions.

Position 0 is off
Position 1 is ignition on
Position 2 is ignition plus city light on (small bulb in headlight) / tail light on
Position 3 is ignition on plus main head light / tail light on
Position 4 is ignition off, parking light on (tail light plus city light on)

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Electrical diagram CB450 K0 with winkers.jpg
 
That is interesting. It is about as big as the Dream switches here and has 5 positions, but we don't have the city light position, rather the priming position where the ignition is off but the starter functions. Quite handy for colder climates.
 
That great looking switch looks somewhat similar to the CB77 Superhawk headlight switch I just sold as a package Deal to a member here;the top brass switch control shaft was very rounded-off(missing the knob)and needs replacement.I wonder if just the shaft is available somewhere ?
 
It's that time of year again, winter ! Time to fix or upgrade things that I didn't like last riding season. I took the headlight and speedo off to upgrade the wiring to the acquired ignition switch. I also have to renew the plastic tube of the wire harness (too stiff and broken). One of the front fork legs is leaking oil, the started clutch had it's best time, and the seat need to be upholstered or replaced with one of my other, flat seats. No big issue's, just annoying in the past season.


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Every winter I take the carbs, air filters and mufflers off to clean them and prepare them for the coming season, kick-starter, shift paddle, and footrests too.

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Don't worry, the brown stains aren't rust, just tetile I spray every year between the double wall pieces. When very hot, the tetile melts.

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And I have to clean the bike, last season I didn't have the time to wash the bike, I just rode it.

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There is some corrosion on the cylinder and head due to road salt, inevitable when riding through rain and freezing weather (the last ride to work and back was very cold, -9 degrees Celsius, 15,8 Fahrenheit). I will also replace the stainless bolts with the original re-plated bolts, which came back from the plater this year.

This year I rode another 9.628 km (5982 mls).

It's also time to make a lot of pictures per part, for the build of the other CB450 K0 (Dutch version).
 
It's a rider, that means that I ride it, no matter if it's hot, raining or freezing cold, the bike was flawless this season, again. Next year I will mainly take the CB400f, while building the four 450's.
 
Tonight I worked on the mufflers, cleaned them, checked them, and put a new tectile coating inbetween the sandwiched metal sheet parts. I do this every year, I drain the old tectile by heating up the parts with an airgun, clean it with pressed air and put a new layer of tectile when it's still hot.

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I will forget how to put the clamps on next year, so I made some pictures this year, I'm not getting younger. This position is not shown in the FSM, but it's the way I got the bike. I couldn't tell on the marks that it was in an other position in the past, so I assume that this is how it left the factory.

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Cleaned, heated and refilled with tectile on both sides.

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Almost ready for next year, next job is to fight a very small rust spots. I do this every year (there is always a new one), cleaning with oxalic acid (locally) and paint with heat resistant silver paint.

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Tomorrow cleaning the rest, and looking in my stash for another left front fork leg, so I can switch the one which is leaking with a fresh one, and fix the other one during the season. Since I have a very good front brake, I have the experience that the left front fork leg is always the issue when it comes to excessive wear due to the forces on that typical leg.
 
Thanks for the observation about the additional stresses on the left leg and it's accelerated wear.
I wonder what would be the US equivalent of the tectile product. Great maintenance technique.
Your metabolism and stamina are impressive (thermal resistance and sheer mileage).
 
I think it's the same thing here in the US: tectyl. https://tectyl.com/en/

Yes, it is, I use the amber or transparent version, not the black one.

Those nylock or nylon insert nuts (aircraft nuts) must survive the exhaust bracket temperatures ok.
These nylock, stainless steel (A4) insert nuts are not getting really hot.

Your metabolism and stamina are impressive (thermal resistance and sheer mileage).

My wife needs the car once in a while (we are a 1 car family), so I can choose between working home or going by bike, not a difficult choice. I have very modern motorcycle gear, warm and dry.
The only thing that's getting cold are my hands, and my battery operated heated gloves keep my hands warm just not long enough, but since I have an air cooled engine, I sometimes put one of my hands on the cylinder head.
 
You are averaging 115 miles every week, year round. (y)(y)
Stop and go riding is good for the hands on the heads but then my faceshield or glasses fog up. It's almost hard to believe I once did so much high altitude (above tree line, 10K+ft.) Nordic skiing when I was younger. Anything even approaching freezing is strictly verboten.
 
Oneway to work is 60 km (37mls), so 120 km (74 mls) per day, if I take the shortest route, and I almost never do that. In the summer I ride at least 3 days a week, which adds up quickly. There are weeks that I ride more then 1000 km (620 mls), but more weeks that don'r ride at all. I don't care about low temperatures, I don't like rain, not that I get wet, but due to visibility and cleaning the bike afterwards. Fog isn't my favorite too, just like you, and we don't have heights here, I hardly come above sea level will riding to my work.

btw, I don't stop and go, just put my hand on the cylinder head while riding.
 
Last post in 2022 !, shame on me :lol:

Last week I got the last shipment from the US, a incomplete K1. But not just a K1, but a incomplete NOS K1, including an engine build of NOS parts, all new, never run. Today I took the parts bike apart, engine will be done next week. Some of these parts will be used to add to the build of the three 450's (2 K1's and one K2).

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A complete frame (without numbers and registration), engine cases without an engine number, NOS front fork, and lot's of NOS parts are included. Since the CB400F is finished (finally), I will re-start this thread, and it will be a loooooong one.

(did I mention that the NOS wheels including original tires are also part of the shipment ?)
 
Last post in 2022 !, shame on me :lol:

Last week I got the last shipment from the US, a incomplete K1. But not just a K1, but a incomplete NOS K1, including an engine build of NOS parts, all new, never run. Today I took the parts bike apart, engine will be done next week. Some of these parts will be used to add to the build of the three 450's (2 K1's and one K2).
A complete frame (without numbers and registration), engine cases without an engine number, NOS front fork, and lot's of NOS parts are included. Since the CB400F is finished (finally), I will re-start this thread, and it will be a loooooong one.

(did I mention that the NOS wheels including original tires are also part of the shipment ?)

NOS (y) (y) (y)
 
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Do you remember the NOS CB450 K1 a few years ago on Ebay ? It was discussed on the other forum by you, and AD, as the bike didn't have a vin, no numbers etc...
 
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