(Not so) Budget drag bike project - DOHC 450, of course

birdland said:
Clean, tidy. It looks SOOOOO good.

Makes me want to tackle my wiring harness.
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Thanks - but what does your harness need? The headlight case is always a mass of wires, not a whole lot you can do with it but try to gather stuff a bit while keeping enough space for the back of the headlight/plug. If all your functions work and the battery stays charged, just ride it :)

Now that I think about it, I do have one harness cover left over from the red 450 and I might just use it to cover the main switch terminals, it's the only part of the wiring that still bugs me.
 
ballbearian said:
Looks good. What cover are you talking about? Got a pic?
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Those "funnel" shaped harness covers like at the end of a harness. No worries, I checked out the one I had left over and it's not only too large for the job but also I didn't take into consideration the small harness coming from the right handlebar switch, so it won't work. It's just me trying to over-tidy it up.

Besides, I now have bigger fish to fry. I took the time to put the lower case in the frame with countershaft in it, front sprocket on and chain draped over both sprockets. Battery box is too close to be safe, the upward movement of the run when the clutch comes out will probably bounce off the bottom of the box. I'll need to raise the box up at least 1", maybe more. Back to the drawing board in my head to come up with different brackets and lower support.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
No plan survives first contact with the enemy, in this case the chain.:lol:
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Yeah, I've had to make other adjustments along the way too of course. This is just another one. I might actually have to go pick up some new material to work with, I'm down to my last length of flat steel and it's a lot thicker than necessary for this situation (and harder to work with as a result). It's a good thing this project has taken as long as it has, plenty of time to think in between screw-ups.
 
boddy said:
4into1 has a selection of different sizes, not sure which one might work.

https://4into1.com/wire-harness-connector-cover/
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I think that's where I bought the two or three I used when I put the red bike together, thanks. I'm just going to let this go, it was just me trying to tidy up a utilitarian bike more than it really needed anyway. I mean, I don't want it to look like a backyard hack job, but I'm not worried about every little detail being perfect either.
 
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Back to the virtual drawing board for the battery box mounts. At this point because I'm both stubborn and hate spending gas money if I can find something that will work lying around in my garage (at least on this build), I spent this afternoon looking at everything I have in my shop for something I could use for a lower support. I have a few pieces of strap steel but the thin piece I used for the original support - which turned out fine except for the lack of enough height - used up all that material. I really didn't want to fight with something a lot thicker and more substantial, plus the battery only weighs a little over 3 lbs so it doesn't need much.

The new upper mount (no separate picture) was a piece of that thicker stuff, ends twisted about 45° and bolted to the front of the forward rear fender mount. Other than the difficulty of accurately drilling holes in that permanently attached frame member without again disassembling the rear of the bike, I managed to center punch and drill 1/4" holes there to mount the upper bracket but of course, they didn't come out quite straight. Good enough for this responsibility.

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I first thought I'd use an old aftermarket door lock actuator rod, plenty thick enough but simple enough to bend into the shape I wanted. Then I realized it would barely be long enough and didn't want to waste it if it didn't work out. A few more minutes of staring at shop contents and I realized I had an extra rear brake rod that won't be used. Plenty long enough but significantly thicker, so the struggle to make something functional began. Naturally, my measurements were just a little off compared to the execution and it ended up being about 1/4" too tall, so back to the large pliers and big vise for some revisions. That was more difficult than the initial creation and I was concerned about over-fatiguing the metal and it breaking off, not nearly enough length to make another from if it happened. Try not to laugh when you notice the less than symmetrical shape, but it's stout and serves the purpose.

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Since it would have been REALLY challenging to make a loop in the middle of the top part for the post on the bottom of the box to sit in, I decided to cut a slot in the post for it to locate on. Worked out well and the only wiggle room is a bit of side to side, but the light weight of the battery and the virtually-all-forward activity this bike will be doing means it won't matter.

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Done and done. Again. And this time with plenty of chain clearance.

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Well . . . you could do maybe one more thing to it. Can you flip the rubber strap over to hide the Yamaha tuning forks? :)
 
fxray said:
Well . . . you could do maybe one more thing to it. Can you flip the rubber strap over to hide the Yamaha tuning forks? :)
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I'd had that battery box for so long I'd forgotten what it came from and during the first efforts with it I finally noticed the logo, then found the black Sharpie writing on the bottom of it confirming it came from a Venture Royale. I kinda like the off-brand logo showing, it's somewhat of a mini act of defiance since I've always been a Honda guy and have never owned one Yamaha. I mean, only something fairly insignificant like a battery box from Yamaha can be good enough to grace my Honda project with its presence. :rolleyes:

Besides, it seems to be clamped pretty well into the tab at the other end and I didn't want to ruin its permanent attachment in the name of vanity.
 
ballbearian said:
Nice freehand bend job. Minimalist too. It's never perfect but it's kind of satisfiying.
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Thanks. Prior to having to adjust the height it was pretty damn symmetrical, but then came another half hour of shape and reshape to lower the height another 1/4". Couldn't get all those short bends to completely straighten out despite the brake rod being more malleable than one might think. It's an interesting metal composition in that you can bend it with your hands in longer lengths, and somehow it bent and re-bent quite a few times in the same or similar spots without ever feeling like it was going to crack or break at any point. For me it's more about overcoming the obstacle and making something work that I had on hand, and if it turns out really well that's just a bonus. Now if it had been for the red 450 I would have been a lot more discerning. This bike will rarely get viewed in full daylight, most of its activities will be under the lights at the track and like that guy I once knew used to say... "flat black and it's outta there". :lol:
 
Since this is only my second lithium-based battery I'm still learning about using them. This LiFePO4 battery is said to be more forgiving about charging rate but it still has certain requirements to be fully charged and to get the expected longevity from it, so I decided to shop for a more appropriate charger for it since this bike won't be recharging its own battery like the LRM does. Using the manufacturer's charging instructions and voltage parameters, I did a lot of comparisons of price and output and found this charger to be a good value for the need. It is said to max out at 14.4v and has 4 stages of charge rate to properly top off the battery, which is said to hold a charge level of over 14v at rest.

The first run after I connected it took about an hour and when it finished, I checked the voltage and was surprised it was only 13.8 so I let it rest a while and ran it again about an hour later resulting in 14.4 initially. This morning the built-in meter on the battery read 14.2v. With the larger capacity over the stock size lead-acid, this battery should last an entire evening of runs (hopefully). Very happy with the charger so far, especially for the price of $27.99 US plus tax

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08MPX414R/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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It's a roller. I went all over the frame today tightening every bolt - and there aren't too many - to be sure I hadn't forgotten anything. Other than some spacers to stand the coils off the frame, there isn't a whole lot left to do other than mount the condensers once I get them, put together a couple of short power wires to the coils from the shift relay and extend the points wiring to reach the coils. And since I have a nice long downhill driveway it gave me the chance to test the brakes during a not-so-epic "ride".

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Good to see some wheels on the ground. Looking good Tom! (y)
 
Thanks Chris, it's getting close to total focus on the engine.

The rear brake pedal returns just fine with only the resistance of the cam opening the shoes but to at least give any tech inspectors at the track something to look at with respect to a return spring, I figured I should put something on it for return assistance. I had the shiny new brake light switch spring burning a hole in my spare parts box so I decided to employ it in some way. The webbing in the backing plate was thick enough that I could drill through the web at the rear of the plate for a place to hook the spring, and yet again my accessories installer past comes through with a handy parallel rod clamp from an aftermarket power door lock kit. Had to use the drill press to open up the outer slip-on clamping area to accommodate the rod, then clamp things together. Better than no spring at all, and they likely won't even look at it but it's there just in case.

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How did it feel when you were coasting down the driveway? I'm thinking about the bars, seat, pegs, etc. as I ask, since everything is custom-built and that can be tricky to sort out. The pegs, in particular, appear to be pretty far back.
 
stl360+450 said:
How did it feel when you were coasting down the driveway? I'm thinking about the bars, seat, pegs, etc. as I ask, since everything is custom-built and that can be tricky to sort out. The pegs, in particular, appear to be pretty far back.
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It's interesting that you mention the pegs. They're in the same exact position as my red 450, the factory passenger peg location. Maybe it's the view of the bike without the engine that makes it deceiving, not sure. And since the CB650C swingarm is 4" longer than the stock swingarm, you'd think the pegs would look a bit further forward. As to how it felt, I might raise the clip-ons a little bit but I'll wait until it gets running to know better, otherwise I sat on it in the garage and made some minor adjustments to the controls (lever angles, bars turned back toward me slightly more) prior to the driveway roll. The rear brake pedal feels a little bit clunky to reach but I wanted it high enough to allow my feet total clearance for the position (leaning much further forward than the red 450, toes pointed downward more). It will take a few runs to get used to but it won't be an issue. The likelihood of someone in the other lane doing something stupid that I'll have to brake for in a hurry is slim and unlike back in the day with my old bike, most of the bikes I'll be running against now will probably be ahead of me like Ray was on his 650 Ninja in my 2019 runs at the 1/8 mile. The seat is minimally soft, the molded material doesn't give much and with struts it will be borderline uncomfortable but I obviously won't be riding it for long periods anyway, though I will have to put a few miles on it before going beyond the LDR fast-track break-in parameters to start thrashing it (hopefully) safely. After I made the tach bracket and then rode the bike down the driveway, I realized my old drag bike tach was a bit further from me. I think the one my father made for me back then was a little longer and put the tach out front a little more. My face will be right behind this tach after laying down, literally less than 5 or 6 inches away.

I'm considering fabbing up a flat chain guard, and the coil mounts and wiring are all that's left on the frame. I found a decent combo of spacers for the coils to stand them off the frame, and I'll have to put together a short split power harness for the coils. The only somewhat unknown is the approximate length of the points wiring to reach the coils and condensers wiring but that's about it. I'm not going to take it all back apart again so this one will get the engine hefted into the frame like I used to do all of them back in the day, but it will be a lot simpler since there's so little else to contend with around it.
 
Spent a little time on the chain guard this afternoon. Again, I'm using what's on hand to avoid spending gas and material money on something better than the roughly 1/8" thick piece of flat steel stock I already have from when Mike and I re-did the rear fender mounts. It's a bit heavy but another 8 oz of weight isn't going to matter at this point. It was about 5 feet long before I cut the length for the chain guard and then found this old body work spoon in my father's '60s era bottom box to start shaping it. You can see the decades of inactivity by the level of permadust on it.

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The metal had some coating on it like I've never seen, looked like rust but started to chip away after some of it cracked during the bending and shaping process. Tried paint remover on it and it softened it a bit but it still took the wire wheel and that abrasive attachment to get the rest of it off.

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Got it nice and clean, now I have to fab some brackets for each end to mount it. Meanwhile, I decided to get the fork fluid out of the way too. Had quite a time trying to get the first fork cap back in until I jammed this perfect length piece of 4x4 between the steering stem and the front tire. I put only about 100cc in each leg since I added the PVC spacers to take up some of the upper tube length internally.

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Then it was time to put a few stickers on it and take a couple shots not yet shown.

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Had to represent for my father and my welder/fabricator buddy Mike who can't help anymore since his stroke.
 
I have to chuckle at the tach being oriented with the all-important redline area straight up in your area of focus!

Don't you need one of those Honda "Preserve Nature" stickers? Nah, I guess you're not too old yet to remember your helmet.

My sympathy for your friend who had the stroke, and I like the way you are keeping him and your dad in mind as you work on your project. It is always good to see someone appreciate tools handed down from someone special.
 
fxray said:
I have to chuckle at the tach being oriented with the all-important redline area straight up in your area of focus!

Don't you need one of those Honda "Preserve Nature" stickers? Nah, I guess you're not too old yet to remember your helmet.

My sympathy for your friend who had the stroke, and I like the way you are keeping him and your dad in mind as you work on your project. It is always good to see someone appreciate tools handed down from someone special.
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Thanks Ray. It's the first time I've ever mounted a tach based on the redline being at the top of the display, and I'm sure it will feel odd for a bit until I get used to it. My previous drag bike had the tach mounted just like original, we never thought about it back then at all.

I have a couple of the Preserve Nature stickers but a couple of things kept me from using one. I know there will be gas spilled at the track, it's inevitable with a small tank being filled with a 2 gallon can. And, I didn't want the bike to have too many stickers and look tacky, I feel like it's borderline right now as it is. But I've always loved that sticker, though if I had a "Turn the Gas on, Dummy" sticker like I had back in the '70s I'd put it right near the cap. BTW, the Moon Eyes on either side of the lower end of the tank are for Russ the machinist who made the tank - he told me I'd have to get some of those stickers for it.

Mike had his stroke only weeks after doing the much improved second round of rear fender bracket fabrication for me on the red 450 in late 2017, and I haven't seen him in a few years. A high school friend of his, who lives much closer to him than I, picks him up and takes him to the track now and then so he can get out and enjoy hearing his favorite sounds (cammed-up V8s). I plan to try to coordinate with his high school buddy Rick before I take this one to the track for the first time so hopefully Mike will be able to see it and hear it run. He's done a lot of welding and fab work for me over the years and if he were closer than 70+ miles away I'd get to see him more often. Here's a run in his S10 with a built Chevy 350 running a 2 stage nitrous kit, the truck ran a best 6.51 at 107 mph in the 1/8 mile - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zph0WN5eqG4

After all I learned from my father and all the bikes we built together from total wrecks when I was younger, it's a shame he didn't live long enough to see how my red 450 turned out. He'd have enjoyed watching it go together, and I think he'd have appreciated this project too. I have to acknowledge all that he taught me and the opportunity he created for me when he talked the owner of Honda Village into giving me my first job back in 1970, it changed my life. I wish we'd gotten to go for one last ride before he left us.

Here we are on a break during the ride home from Bike Week in the late '70s.
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Another day, another little bit of progress. And the use of more Harbor Freight leftovers.
Of course I have no idea why the hole came out off-center, had to be the fault of the Sharpie :rolleyes:

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I took the strut off and ground off the extended bit of threads on the backside of the lower mount to make a few more threads for the flange nut on the longer bolt I'm using in the strut for the lower mount.

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Painted and test fitted, yardstick in place to show the clearance to the bottom of the mount bolts from the top of the sprocket teeth.

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And the clearance to the sprocket studs

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$0 spent again, all stuff on hand and long since paid for. Yay, more money saved.
 
Beautiful work on everything! I made a similar chain guard out of flat aluminum back in the early ‘70s. Hey, if you’re looking for stickers, I can mail you a rare Ichiban Moto one…lol

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1969 CL350 said:
Beautiful work on everything! I made a similar chain guard out of flat aluminum back in the early ‘70s. Hey, if you’re looking for stickers, I can mail you a rare Ichiban Moto one…lol
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Thanks Dale. I wish I'd had a piece of flat aluminum stock lying around, this weighs about 3 times that but another half pound isn't going to change things at this point. Eventually I want to take it to Gainesville to give it a try in the 1/4 mile so I made sure the front of the chain guard was high enough to (hopefully) clear a 16 tooth front sprocket. Stock is 15 but with a 39 tooth rear (stock 450 is 35) it might need more than the stock 15 to run the full quarter without hitting power peak/redline too early.

I do have space on the back of the seat upright bracket, right above the rear tire. If the Ichiban sticker is 3" or smaller it would fit there and get rubber bits and track goo thrown all over it, kinda like some of his crazy video results back in the day :lol: (that's why the round VHT sticker didn't go there)
 
If you want the sticker, PM your address to me and I’ll send it. :)

Here’s the only photo I could find of the chain guard. Also in the photo are the struts I had welded up, which were also very similar to yours.

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1969 CL350 said:
If you want the sticker, PM your address to me and I’ll send it. :)

Here’s the only photo I could find of the chain guard. Also in the photo are the struts I had welded up, which were also very similar to yours.
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Nice, it looks like you gave yours about the same clearance I gave mine. Really wish I'd had some aluminum lying around but oh well. In that form your bike must have been pretty firm in the rear, looks like that seat was about as soft as my brat seat and with struts too. I swear, few bikes have lived more diverse lives than yours has.
 
A couple more points of progress today. I gambled that the short CB450 throttle cable from 4into1 for low bars would have the same size splitter box that the lower half of another black throttle cable did that I already had on hand. Of course, I can't use the entire cable because of the barrel ends on the lower half that fit the stock 450 carbs and the lower half I had was for standard slide carbs but didn't have enough inner cable length for the Mikunis on the red 450. In fact, the two did combine halves perfectly (the forgotten part I added to my 4into1 order for which they refunded me $5 for the combined shipping) so I got out one of my PWK 36s to see if the inner cables had enough length for the semi-flat slides in those carbs. They have an interesting attachment setup on the slides, a little trickier than the Mikunis but the cables were more than long enough. So I opened up the right switch assembly and put the throttle cable in place, then connected it to one of the carbs as a test.

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and with the throttle opened about halfway

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So then I set out to finish the ignition wiring. Measured the distance from the points area on the red bike to the underside of the frame, made sure the lengths were generous enough to avoid coming up short and soldered/heat shrinked it all together. I used pieces of the pairs of leads that came with the Dyna replica coils, covered the green coming from both CB400F/550/750 condensers with heat shrink, cut the blue and yellow pair from the old condensers that came with the really old Honda tune-up kit I bought a few years ago for the points and plugs and combined parts. The coils both had yellow points wires so I squirted a little blue paint on the right side wire and mounted the condensers on the plate between the coils. The ground terminal will be well-connected to the frame through the very clean plate, new flat washer and behind the plate up against the frame (cleaned of paint) I used a star washer. I put nylock nuts on the coil bolts too.

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I tried to loop everything out of each other's way since it's all right above the engine heat, but I know the stock bike with full-sized tank in place probably gets hotter under there than this will and those wires are laying all over each other. Just want it fairly clean and long-term reliable. Oh, and the ohm meter shows 0 ohms (once in a while with a light contact, 0.01 ohms) between battery ground and coil ground.
 
Man, I'm a sucker for those clear float bowls, maybe the PW22 on my Dream could use an upgrade. After all, it's really a 315 not a 305 now.

Looks pretty solid and I'm sure you de-burred the edges of your mount plate so the vibration won't chafe your wires.
 
ballbearian said:
Looks pretty solid and I'm sure you de-burred the edges of your mount plate so the vibration won't chafe your wires.
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Yes I did, hand filed and smooth. Didn't bother to paint that one, not much of it is visible.

Hey, the PWK carbs are still pretty cheap though they have gone up a little since I bought my pair for about $65 well over a year ago.
 
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Bill Silver talked about adapting the PW26 from the dual carb 305's to Dreams. I'm sure you said previously but what size are they again and are you going to have a bug screen?
 
ballbearian said:
I can read, really. PWK 36. With my open exhausts too maybe a 32 might do.
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It will be 497cc, 11.5 to 12:1 compression ratio, Chris Schumann ported head with the biggest cams Terry Naughtin ever ran with stock torsion bars (.414" lift, 280° duration) so it should run well with the 36s. My red 450 has 36s on it with milder cams but it probably could run 34s and be about the same. Stock carbs on a 450 are 32s.

No bug screen, most of its runs will be on the 1/8 mile, speeds around 75 to 80 mph or so
 
I meant screens on the carbs so you don't suck some lovebugs :lol:. Seems I remember someone (maybe you, my CRS?) saying that the PWK's are best about one size bigger than one would think.
 
ballbearian said:
I meant screens on the carbs so you don't suck some lovebugs :lol:. Seems I remember someone (maybe you, my CRS?) saying that the PWK's are best about one size bigger than one would think.
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I'll be running velocity stacks on this one, I think they have screens but I plan to add a thin sheet of either aluminum or plastic as an inner fender to keep the wheel-checked debris from aiming at the carbs. I think the carb size comment with respect to the PWKs was from Jay the (oil pump) engineer. I talked about the carb size with Jay as well as Chris Schumann and they both feel like the 36s are going to be good on it. And definitely open exhausts, this time probably with some form of megaphones but it remains to be seen if they have any level of reverse cone on them at all. Still pondering (and soon to be calculating thanks to Jim) the exhaust parameters.
 
Not much left to do on the rolling chassis now. A carb support of some sort once the engine is in, a thin plastic inner rear fender to keep sand and track gunk from being aimed at the velocity stacks, adding the separate petcocks to the gas tank once the engine and carbs are in place and of course, the exhaust. And new tires. I was going to wait until riding it around the neighborhood a bit and getting some heat cycles in before worrying about tires (money), but yesterday afternoon my local riding buddy Ray (the guy who beat me in that 2019 1/8 mile run on his Ninja 650) and I were texting and I sent him some pictures of the progress. We started talking about tires and I told him my budget was pretty much blown on it and I'd be replacing them later. He offered to buy a pair of modestly priced tires for the project as a donation to the cause, so a pair of Kenda Challengers are on the way. Very generous of him (he knows I'm a broke "pensioner") so I told him it would be like a "sponsorship" and I'd get a sticker made to put on the bike for his contribution.

So off the lift and back into the aisle in front of the bench for now while other stuff gets done as well as the engine in the coming weeks and months. Meanwhile, some final shots of the roller complete.

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The difference in wheelbase is really evident here.

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I've been soaking these baffle plates in parts washer solvent for a couple weeks now hoping to soften the gaskets and whatever ridiculous sealant someone used (reminds me of old school Permatex), still pretty tough to scrape but not hard as a brick like it was originally. Ah, the fun parts of engine work.

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LongDistanceRider said:
That extended wheelbase is really something, it'll help keep the front end down.
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Yeah, the 650 swingarm adaptation is probably the single best thing about this bike vs my old one back in the day, and I did have some wheelie problems with that bike at times. 4" longer but in side by side comparison it looks like a lot more, plus both it and the drive with sprocket are so much beefier than the stock 450 parts and with a wider rim too. And the best part was the components cost me $0
 
Juneaudave said:
The chassis sure looks professional! Nice work!
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Thanks Dave. Considering so many parts of it were discarded or leftovers acquired for $0, like the frame that had no title and was under Chris' house in the crawl space, the complete front end that came from a junkyard CM250C and fortunately didn't have rusty upper tubes, and the rusty swingarm and complete rear wheel from yet another junkyard bike, it turned out fairly well for the money invested (most of which went to Russ the machinist for his excellent efforts toward adapting the parts to the frame). I'm happy with it, especially for the overall investment, so I'm hoping I can make the money spent on the engine work together with the roller to perform at least as well as my previous effort back in the day. I mean, dragging my increased current girth to the finish line as quickly as my old one carried my younger, lighter ass down the track back then would be the best I could hope for. :)
 
Sounds like you've an edge on the competition; the speed of cash exiting the wallet. I'd work crew for you, if not so far. I work real cheap. (y)
 
ballbearian said:
I was thinking speed wobble.
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I don't think there will be any of those issues. My old drag bike had a CB175 front end grafted onto it by my father and it sat level like the new bike does with the struts used on that frame, and it never wobbled. Ran 100 to 105 mph in the 1/4 mile every time it went out and handled great.
 
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