CB400T Carb repair, etc

OK...........
I just surrendered to winter.
the tank is full.
stabilizer is in.
chain is lubed.
carbs are drained.
now..............
my parts should be here today for the last clutch friction plate.
it will soon be clutch rebuild time, and snow shoveling.
bob
 
Well, the clutch is out and rebuilt.
I cleaned the steel plates and gave them a light sand with 400 wet/dry.
They all were flat........
I now know why there is a different friction plate at the one end of the assembly; it's to clear the spring retainer that holds the end steel plate in place.
I wondered about that, but realized that Honda doesn't do anything without a reason.
now..........
It's time to put it back together............
Did I mention that is 24deg F out in the garage............
Oh to be Canadian!
bob
p.s. - I have a lot of cleaning and polishing to do before it goes back together..........................

04.jpg03.jpg02.jpg01.jpg
 
OK, here's a question......
I have the clutch back on the engine, how do I hold the centre part of the clutch so that I can torque the castle nut to 35 ft/lbs?
I may consider making something to go over the four internally threaded risers that would allow the castle nut socket in the tighten.
unless there is something I am missing?
bob

clutch risers.jpg
 
Not familiar with the 400T but on my 450 I slipped a penny in the teeth of the clutch basket and crank to lock it up. Penny is soft enough not to damage the teeth.
 
I've used one of these clutch basket holders on mine, they're pretty useful. Can confirm that the penny trick works as well, though.
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OK........
I have the clutch back in and torqued............
but.........
I must be missing something, as I could not see anywhere to use a penny?
I put the bike in gear, stopped the rear wheel from turning, and torqued the castle nut to 35 ft/lbs.
what am I missing?
bob
 
ancientdad said:
Jim assumed you knew what he meant. A penny is safe to wedge between the primary drive gears to stop the shaft from turning.

View attachment 53458
Click to expand...
Tom:
I figured that was where I was to put the penny, but......
in my case that would not have stopped the centre part of the clutch from turning.
I had to put the bike in first, block the real wheel from turning, and then torque the castle nut.
When I tried to torque the nut without the bike in gear and the real blocked the centre cage of the clutch would just spin.
bob
 
Bobs twin said:
Tom:
I figured that was where I was to put the penny, but......
in my case that would not have stopped the centre part of the clutch from turning.
I had to put the bike in first, block the real wheel from turning, and then torque the castle nut.
When I tried to torque the nut without the bike in gear and the real blocked the centre cage of the clutch would just spin.
bob
Click to expand...
Yes, and Honda made a clutch hub tool to hold it still but of course, finding one and wanting to pay the price for it are the challenges.
 
ancientdad said:
Yes, and Honda made a clutch hub tool to hold it still but of course, finding one and wanting to pay the price for it are the challenges.
Click to expand...
well........
it's back together and torqued, which is all that I wanted.
Thanks again guys, this is the number one place for Honda help, instruction and information!
bob, that cold canadian.................
 
OK, one last question.
I ordered a new set of springs, and I checked them against the originals.
When I check the OAL, my originals are between 1.600" and 1.613", the new ones are between 1.605" and 1.613".
The service manual calls for a length of 1.624"
Is this a problem?
bob
clutch springs.jpg
 
I was reading over the last several posts. It sounds like you made a clutch adjustment after noticing greater free play as the motor warmed up. This was before the slipping clutch was mentioned. I wonder if there is any connection there. Have you found any of the friction discs to be substantially worn?

I guess your springs, if OEM, are below the service limit. With other bikes, I have found that aftermarket springs do not necessarily conform to the OEM specifications for free length, etc. Are the replacement springs OEM?
 
I asked at the Honda dealership if they could get originals and was told no. So I purchased springs from a parts supplier.
The friction disks that I took out were the same thickeness as the new ones that I received.
If I was still working I would have checked the load of the new springs compared to the originals.
bob
 
It appears that the springs would get longer with use and that once they reach the service limit of 41.25mm THEN they should be replaced.
SO, since both your original springs and your new ones are shorter than the service limit, I'd think you have 2 sets of usable springs.
 
It's supposed to warm in a few days.
It will be going back together with the new friction plates and the new springs.
And yes, I now have spares!
Thanks again guys!
bob
 
Boosted said:
It appears that the springs would get longer with use and that once they reach the service limit of 41.25mm THEN they should be replaced.
SO, since both your original springs and your new ones are shorter than the service limit, I'd think you have 2 sets of usable springs.
Click to expand...
I believe compression springs tend to shorten through extended use. Granted, the image below is taken from the FSM for the dohc CB450, but it specifically states to replace when under the service limit.

504.png

It's still possible that Bob's springs are fine to use, but that may depend on whether they are OEM and a variety of other factors.

I wonder whether the recent clutch adjustment may be the reason for the slippage.
 
Boosted said:
It appears that the springs would get longer with use and that once they reach the service limit of 41.25mm THEN they should be replaced.
SO, since both your original springs and your new ones are shorter than the service limit, I'd think you have 2 sets of usable springs.
Click to expand...
No, springs loose tension with use and become shorter.
 
I will try the new clutch setup I the spring.
I also found another supplier that has both fiction plates and springs by Barnett.
I had a Barnett clutch in my Norton and it was fine.
I'll keep you informed in the spring........
back to hibernation................
bob
p.s. - the clutch would only slip (once in a while) if I shifted fast at high RPM, other than that it was fine.
 
I haven't needed to do any clutch work on any of my 4 bikes yet, and haven't done any on any other motorcycles.
I guessed that the springs elongated with use since his brand new springs came shorter than the usable spec, that's all.
I'll be sure to find out the length of springs in any new spring set I consider in the future before I buy them...
Sorry for the uneducated guess !
 
Boosted said:
I haven't needed to do any clutch work on any of my 4 bikes yet, and haven't done any on any other motorcycles.
I guessed that the springs elongated with use since his brand new springs came shorter than the usable spec, that's all.
I'll be sure to find out the length of springs in any new spring set I consider in the future before I buy them...
Sorry for the uneducated guess !
Click to expand...
Boosted, we are on this path together, no harm, and no foul!
bob
 
I'm going out on a limb here, but I want to say it is the fiction plates ;) Bob, you put that bike away for the winter. From MN cheers, happy Holidays. We do have a warm spell, hmm.
 
kbongos said:
I'm going out on a limb here, but I want to say it is the fiction plates ;) Bob, you put that bike away for the winter. From MN cheers, happy Holidays. We do have a warm spell, hmm.
Click to expand...
I put new friction plates in the clutch build, so I am hopeful.
if this doesn't resolve the issue, it's either stop shifting above 7g's, which is not likely, as it's too much fun........
or the Barnett route. They use Kevlar for the friction material.
either way I am having too much fun for an ol guy!
bob
 
OK, I have a question.
I have polished this case before with better results.
I seem to find it difficult to get a consistent polish on these Honda aluminum cases.
I used Mothers Aluminum polish this time, but it just doesn't seem to get the luster I am looking for.
It seems as though I am introducing scratches with my cotton buffing wheel?
So, I am looking for advice.
Bob

case.jpg
 
I also have another question.
When I polished these cases the first time there was a heavy coat of what seemed to be an epoxy paint on them.
Did Honda use a paint to coat the cases?
bob
 
Bobs twin said:
I also have another question.
When I polished these cases the first time there was a heavy coat of what seemed to be an epoxy paint on them.
Did Honda use a paint to coat the cases?
bob
Click to expand...
Some models were lightly polished and clear-coated, others were painted silver though I don't think it was epoxy paint. I remember my SL175 and SL350 right crankcase covers showing spots where my riding boots wore through the paint.
 
That cover would have likely been polished and clear coated at the factory and not painted in the centre section at least where the Honda logo is located. if you Google your model and year and look at a number of your models pictures, it should show you the original finish from the factory.
You likely have some grit on the wheel that is forming those light scratches in your surface. If you using a drill or another device other than a buffing machine then the speed may also be an issue. Dirt would be my best guess as to the scratching issues, since real buffing compounds are different than a polish meant for aluminum.
 
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One possible solution:

A new buffing wheel is needed with a semi soft fibre wheel. If you can get some rouge buffing compound, preferably a softer compound to use with a rag. A jewellery rouge cleaning compound would work in a pinch. Hand buff the areas well first with the rouge compound using some vigour to get the aluminum surface scratches cleaned up and prepped. Clean the entire part of all the remaining dirt/materials. Now apply a good surface coat of the rouge compound to the area to be buffed/polished now. Reapplying the red rouge and buffing a few more sessions maybe required. Watch for the buff getting dirty and loaded with excess compound on the wheel.

Depending on the machine your using a nice brightness to the shine and a clean finish should be the end result.
 
As a temporary fix, you could hold a piece of hacksaw blade or and old saw at right angles to the buffing wheel and apply a bit of pressure to the wheel. It usually cleans up any lumps of compound. Don't be too aggressive with the pressure as you don't want a saw blade flying around the shop.
 
boddy said:
As a temporary fix, you could hold a piece of hacksaw blade or and old saw at right angles to the buffing wheel and apply a bit of pressure to the wheel. It usually cleans up any lumps of compound. Don't be too aggressive with the pressure as you don't want a saw blade flying around the shop.
Click to expand...
I've used open end wrenches and flat screwdriver blades too, anything tough enough to knock off the outer layer of built-up compound off.
 
we have a place here called Princess Auto, they have quite a bit of polishing do-dads
I'm going to head that way and get a couple of new wheels.
It's a Honda after all!!!!!!!!!!
gotta use the good stuff!
thanks again guys!
bob
 
Bobs twin said:
we have a place here called Princess Auto, they have quite a bit of polishing do-dads
I'm going to head that way and get a couple of new wheels.
It's a Honda after all!!!!!!!!!!
gotta use the good stuff!
thanks again guys!
bob
Click to expand...
Bob,

Princess Auto is a great solution for sure. Here is a link for future reference for Caswell's Canada who sells quite a variety of products with high quality buffing wheels and compounds. The black compound Is your workhorse with a spiral Sisal wheel to start the rougher buff. Then a harder yellow coloured stitched wheel will do most of the remaining work. A softer buff wheel with a red or fine compound as the finishing buff for a pretty shiny outcome.

Princess Auto has the buffing machines and when on sale the 3/4HP top model and has adjustable speed control. They used to be $119-129 on sale and now on sale at the same price as a clearance. Excellent machine use some quality wheels and proper spacing off the shaft area to the motor assembly for room to buff. The buffs that come with the Princess machine are poor quality, yet you could use the looser flap wheels as the final red compound polish setup.

BUFFING MACHINE ON SALE AT PRINCESS NOW:

https://www.princessauto.com/en/8-in-variable-speed-bench-mount-buffer/product/PA0008656860


CASWELL CANADA SUPPLIES LINK:

https://caswellcanada.ca/
 
Flyin900 said:
Bob,

Princess Auto is a great solution for sure. Here is a link for future reference for Caswell's Canada who sells quite a variety of products with high quality buffing wheels and compounds. The black compound Is your workhorse with a spiral Sisal wheel to start the rougher buff. Then a harder yellow coloured stitched wheel will do most of the remaining work. A softer buff wheel with a red or fine compound as the finishing buff for a pretty shiny outcome.

Princess Auto has the buffing machines and when on sale the 3/4HP top model and has adjustable speed control. They used to be $119-129 on sale and now on sale at the same price as a clearance. Excellent machine use some quality wheels and proper spacing off the shaft area to the motor assembly for room to buff. The buffs that come with the Princess machine are poor quality, yet you could use the looser flap wheels as the final red compound polish setup.

BUFFING MACHINE ON SALE AT PRINCESS NOW:

https://www.princessauto.com/en/8-in-variable-speed-bench-mount-buffer/product/PA0008656860


CASWELL CANADA SUPPLIES LINK:

https://caswellcanada.ca/
Click to expand...
Thank you very much Flyin900, I'll check these out.
bob
 
Flyin900 said:
Bob,

Princess Auto is a great solution for sure. Here is a link for future reference for Caswell's Canada who sells quite a variety of products with high quality buffing wheels and compounds. The black compound Is your workhorse with a spiral Sisal wheel to start the rougher buff. Then a harder yellow coloured stitched wheel will do most of the remaining work. A softer buff wheel with a red or fine compound as the finishing buff for a pretty shiny outcome.

Princess Auto has the buffing machines and when on sale the 3/4HP top model and has adjustable speed control. They used to be $119-129 on sale and now on sale at the same price as a clearance. Excellent machine use some quality wheels and proper spacing off the shaft area to the motor assembly for room to buff. The buffs that come with the Princess machine are poor quality, yet you could use the looser flap wheels as the final red compound polish setup.

BUFFING MACHINE ON SALE AT PRINCESS NOW:

https://www.princessauto.com/en/8-in-variable-speed-bench-mount-buffer/product/PA0008656860


CASWELL CANADA SUPPLIES LINK:

https://caswellcanada.ca/
Click to expand...
Flyin900:
I have buffing wheels, felt bobs, some compounds and a rake coming from Caswells today.
Thank you sir!
bob
 
wentwest said:
I can't "Like" this! After living like that for almost 50 years, we moved to California. It was 60 midday today, cloudy and windy, but not frozen.
Click to expand...
I fully understand.
It's just part of living in Canada for me.
It does add a certain level of exceitment to spring though.
When it's time once again to warm up two tires..............
bob
 
getting old has it's challenges.....................
I had an upper rear molar removed yesterday; he had to break it up to get it out.
then he removed a cyst the size of a 3/8" ball, messy.
I'm now drugged and feeling lazy!
and eating luke warm porridge...............
I hope your days are going well.............
bob
 
The crunching and pushing and shoving that goes into pulling a tooth always feels wrong. I try to avoid doing things that make those noises, because it feels like it's always a bad idea.
 
wentwest said:
The crunching and pushing and shoving that goes into pulling a tooth always feels wrong. I try to avoid doing things that make those noises, because it feels like it's always a bad idea.
Click to expand...
the noise that got me was when he ground slots in the tooth, then put some clamp on it and cracked it into 4 pieces.
that crack sound just sounded wrong in my head.
bob
 
Bobs twin said:
the noise that got me was when he ground slots in the tooth, then put some clamp on it and cracked it into 4 pieces.
that crack sound just sounded wrong in my head.
bob
Click to expand...
The sounds and the physical struggle to pull them is the reason my first two wisdom teeth being pulled was a horrible, miserable experience, so I had the second two pulled while I was under general anesthesia and it was a much more normal experience that took far less recovery time, and was no comparison in the pain level - very little at all.
 
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