1977 CB200

[ancientdad]

But do you know if those pistons are stock bore before ordering 2nd over pistons? Your pics won't enlarge so the scuffing in the cylinders is difficult to see, though I can see a bit of it in the second pic. No rings are stuck? Also, note the cam chain wear in the head near the tensioner shaft

 

[Othen]

But do you know if those pistons are stock bore before ordering 2nd over pistons? Your pics won't enlarge so the scuffing in the cylinders is difficult to see, though I can see a bit of it in the second pic. No rings are stuck? Also, note the cam chain wear in the head near the tensioner shaft

View attachment 28518

Thank you - I'm either being very daft or there is something very strange indeed going on with my 198cc motor:



Your post prompted me to check the pistons, expecting a 55.5mm bore as per the workshop manual. I couldn't believe my eyes, here is the measurement from the barrels:



... 61.5mm (or thereabouts) bore! Have I contacted the dementia early in life, or has this motor had a huge modification?

I'm more that a little confused.

Alan

 

[ancientdad]

Wow, that's a major overbore. I wonder if they're SOHC CB750 pistons (61mm bore, 63mm stroke). I've not heard of anyone doing it but they're the only Honda piston that comes to mind with that size, though there may well be others.

I'd be looking for a set of stock cylinders and pistons. And check the rods closely, if that engine was abused heavily with that large an overbore the big end rod bearings could have taken a beating.

 

[Othen]

Wow, that's a major overbore. I wonder if they're SOHC CB750 pistons (61mm bore, 63mm stroke). I've not heard of anyone doing it but they're the only Honda piston that comes to mind with that size, though there may well be others.

I'd be looking for a set of stock cylinders and pistons. And check the rods closely, if that engine was abused heavily with that large an overbore the big end rod bearings could have taken a beating.

That is the only conclusion I can come to, here are the barrels from my CB200:



... and here is a photo of some standard ones I found on an eBay ad a few minutes ago:


... the scale isn't quite the same, but you can see the liners are much thinner on my engine.

I don't know where the pistons came from, but I agree this will only work if I return the motor to standard. I can either break the CB200 for parts (and it does have quite a few good ones) or return it to standard, it is too good a bike to break so I'll get some standard barrels. I've found a set on eBay that look okay but the seller says need a re-bore (stock at the moment) for under £40. This sounds like the best plan: replace the barrels, get them re-bored for the +0.5mm pistons, fit a replacement camshaft... check over everything whilst it is apart.

This is why we like 50 year old motors so much!

 

[Othen]

Assuming a 61mm bore and 41mm stroke that gives a capacity of 240cc!

 

[Othen]

This CB200 is costing me a fortune! Actually I’m not that concerned, this Is a fun project.

The eBay sellers of the camshaft and the block have both accepted my slightly lower offers so the pair have cost me just over £200.There has also been £70 for the oversize pistons and £20 for the tappet covers. Let’s call it £300 - there will also be £45 for the re-bore and the lovely new silencers were £300 - so the CB200 will owe me about £2,100 by the time it is back on the road. One always takes a risk with projects, and with 20-20 hindsight I’d have paid less if I known what I do now about the motorcycle. No matter, I’ve enjoyed today and look forward to getting the CB200 back on the road in a few week’s time.

Alan

 

[2wheel]

It will repay you with smiles

 

[Richard Pitman]

I wonder what on earth caused the cam carrier to fail like that, seems most unusual. Do you think that the engine has been apart before, maybe someone had a struggle with the endless chain / camshaft / sprocket jigsaw puzzle, overtightened a bolt before the sprocket was properly in place ?

( A possible bodge - get the sprocket welded to the cam, then use a rivet link in the cam chain )

EDIT I also notice the usual CB200 cam chain wear marks in the cylinder head tunnel. New chain might be in order.

 

[Othen]

I wonder what on earth caused the cam carrier to fail like that, seems most unusual. Do you think that the engine has been apart before, maybe someone had a struggle with the endless chain / camshaft / sprocket jigsaw puzzle, overtightened a bolt before the sprocket was properly in place ?

( A possible bodge - get the sprocket welded to the cam, then use a rivet link in the cam chain )

EDIT I also notice the usual CB200 cam chain wear marks in the cylinder head tunnel. New chain might be in order.

It is a mystery. I’m certain the motor has been apart previously (not least when someone bored it to 240cc) - the fasteners all came apart easily and certainly had not been in place for nearly 50 years. I can’t really think of an explanation for the sprocket carrier failing.

I’m not sure that part would be easy to weld - it looks like a cast item. I’ve bitten the bullet and bought a second hand camshaft for £170 (delivered). We’ll see how it goes back together in a week or so.

Alan

 

[LongDistanceRider]

It is a mystery. I’m certain the motor has been apart previously (not least when someone bored it to 240cc) - the fasteners all came apart easily and certainly had not been in place for nearly 50 years. I can’t really think of an explanation for the sprocket carrier failing.

I’m not sure that part would be easy to weld - it looks like a cast item. I’ve bitten the bullet and bought a second hand camshaft for £170 (delivered). We’ll see how it goes back together in a week or so.

Alan

People have tried welding that flange in the past meeting with failure every time.

 

[Othen]

People have tried welding that flange in the past meeting with failure every time.

Thank you for that. In that case I take it this isn't an uncommon occurrence?

It is a pity because the rest of the cam (journals and lobes) appears to be in really good condition.

 

[Richard Pitman]

I wasn't paying attention last night, missed the part about the vast over bore. It has been reported here ( or the other place ) before, UK member with the handle 'Brush' had a CB200 with this modification. It blew up and he ended up selling it for parts - I bought a CB200 rear grab handle from him.

Yawn CB200 cafe racer​

Regarding that flange - if welding isn't an option, are there any other solutions ? The 175 cam sprockets are simply pressed into position, if I've read an earlier past by Simo correctly.

 

[Othen]

I wasn't paying attention last night, missed the part about the vast over bore. It has been reported here ( or the other place ) before, UK member with the handle 'Brush' had a CB200 with this modification. It blew up and he ended up selling it for parts - I bought a CB200 rear grab handle from him.

Yawn CB200 cafe racer​

Regarding that flange - if welding isn't an option, are there any other solutions ? The 175 cam sprockets are simply pressed into position, if I've read an earlier past by Simo correctly.

Wonderful. I can see that thread is about a decade old. I wonder whether it was inspired my my bike - or perhaps the other way round? I have no idea when the 240cc bore appeared, on SDV588R, it could have been decades ago. We may have identified the pistons as from a CB750F2, but that doesn't help a great deal as it is going back to standard next week.

I'm guessing the rubber tip for the tensioner plunger (part #14556216020) is a service item and so I'd be sensible to change it before reassembling the engine. I can't find one in stock online - does anyone know where I might find one (here in the UK)?

I'm guessing Hondatwins.net has an affiliation with this forum because some of the contributors seem to be the same?

Some good news: the cylinder head has passed my overnight kerosene leakage test with flying colours. I'll clean it up and bolt it back on the way it is.

Alan

 

[gerkin]

I have become somewhat addicted to older project cars and motorcycles, in recent years there have been quite a few Volvos (several 240s and the Amazon I still use most days) and motorcycles from Triumph, Suzuki, CCM and Honda. I tend to buy unfinished projects that someone has given up on, like this 1984 Goldwing that was a non-runner the PO had given up on, but 5 months later is a nice bike that I’ll keep:

View attachment 28431

Having more or less ‘finished’ (projects are rarely ever completely finished) the Goldwing I started looking for something else interesting. This 1977 Honda CB200 was advertised on eBay as a runner but needing ‘a few jobs to finish’:

View attachment 28432

The seller and I agreed a price of £1,500 over the telephone, then Bob (the dog) and I hitched up the bike trailer early this morning to collect it in Surrey (2 hours drive away). The PO seemed a genuine chap, he was new to motorcycle projects and having spent a fortune on the bike and new parts had realised he had bitten off more than he could chew. This was exactly what I was looking for: a complete bike in need of some work (but I hope not much money) to get it to a good standard. I never attempt to get vehicles to a show standard, but always to make good useable and reliable cars and motorcycles.

It looks like the CB200 had been off the road for at least 20 years until reassembled by the penultimate PO. Being more than 40 years old it is registered as an historic vehicle and so doesn’t need a MoT test and is tax exempt. The bike looks lovely, and seems to consist of more or less original parts, except the horrible silencers (mufflers for North Americans):

View attachment 28433

The silencers are far too noisy, don’t fit properly (the kick start would hit the right hand one) and not correct at all. I have found a supplier of new copies of the originals at £300/pair; I’ll order some tomorrow.

The motorcycle came with a printed copy of the Honda workshop manual, a Haynes manual, a folder of receipts and box of useful spares. The issues that foxed the PO were a very noisy top end (sounds like a bag of nails) and poor running. If I’m fortunate the noisy top end will be fixed by adjusting the tappets and tensioning the cam chain, I’ll do those jobs tomorrow. The PO had the carburettors cleaned, but they obviously need setting up properly, once I’ve sorted out the mechanical issues with the top end that should be easy enough to fix.

I noticed a few electrical jobs that need sorting, such as the horn button doesn’t work. There will probably be a myriad of other jobs once I have a better look at the motorcycle.

So, that is episode one. I’ll have a better look at the Honda in the light of day tomorrow and make a better estimate. I hope the noisy top end will be fixed by a bit of adjustment, but if it ends up needing something more then so be it - I bought this as a project. I’ll post an update after a proper reconnaissance - and almost certainly ask for some advice on fixing the issues I find.

More to follow…

Alan

Looks great .hello from Norwich

 

[Othen]

Looks great .hello from Norwich

Thank you.
The CB200 does have some unexpected issues, which you may see as you read on.
It is a simple motorcycle though, I should be able to solve the problems in a couple of weeks as long as I can get the parts.
Alan

 

[NeverEverJamToday]

Instead of getting new cylinders, could get the ones you have sleeved.

the oil I drained did smell of petrol,

This can happen to perfectly healthy cylinders& rings if while parked the float bowls stick with and the petcock left open. Just overflows right into the cylinders during the night while you are in bed dreaming about tomorrow's ride.

 

[ancientdad]

I'm guessing Hondatwins.net has an affiliation with this forum because some of the contributors seem to be the same?

Not exactly an affiliation, in fact far less than that. But yes, most of the core group here came from there.

 

[Richard Pitman]

I've got a set of rebored CB200 cylinders in the shed, never been run. I'll have a look later on, see what condition they are in. Can't remember if they are +05 or +1. Also some new pistons to match, but I'm a bit dubious about those, branded 'Bailey'. Dubious because the gudgeon pins are a tight fit in the small ends and loose in the pistons, which seems back to front to me. Bored at Malvern Rebores, who have done a couple of 175 cylinders for me.

I'm guessing Hondatwins.net has an affiliation with this forum because some of the contributors seem to be the same?

Thereby hangs quite a tale. Sufficient to say that we were all perfectly happy on that site, until it got taken over by a commercial outfit, who stole our content and polluted the site with adverts, simply a revenue driven thing. In consequence, some of the original members founded and run VHT. I got banned from HT.net for the heinous crime of mentioning this site. Just my take on things.

EDIT Toms post arrived whilst I was typing ......

 

[Richard Pitman]

Oddly enough, whilst trying to remember details of my CB200 cylinders, found this thread which I had posted back in the olden days. In summary, +.075 Bailey Taiwanese pistons, original rings discarded, genuine Honda .75 rings fitted ( Third oversize ).

CB200 Piston rings

 

[Richard Pitman]

Dug out that cylinder and pistons, still coated in oil. Gudgeon pins are actually a nice sliding fit in both the small end and the piston, don't know why I remembered otherwise.

Some photos. 50 quid + postage, if any use to you ?

 

[LongDistanceRider]

Thank you for that. In that case I take it this isn't an uncommon occurrence?

It is a pity because the rest of the cam (journals and lobes) appears to be in really good condition.

Don't know about the CB200 cams but it's seen on the 350's when people use the wrong bolts

 

[LongDistanceRider]

I got banned from HT.net for the heinous crime of mentioning this site. Just my take on things.

EDIT Toms post arrived whilst I was typing ......

You're in good company Richard,

 

[Othen]

Dug out that cylinder and pistons, still coated in oil. Gudgeon pins are actually a nice sliding fit in both the small end and the piston, don't know why I remembered otherwise.

Some photos. 50 quid + postage, if any use to you ?

Gosh, I wish I’d known about these a few days ago - but I’ll certainly take them at £50, it will save me time getting the barrels I’ve ordered re-bored. Worcester isn’t so far away, I could drive over (with Bob the dog) and collect them at the weekend if that suited?
Alan

 

[Othen]

Not exactly an affiliation, in fact far less than that. But yes, most of the core group here came from there.

Thank you (and Richard) for that explanation.

Alan

 

[Richard Pitman]

Gosh, I wish I’d known about these a few days ago - but I’ll certainly take them at £50, it will save me time getting the barrels I’ve ordered re-bored. Worcester isn’t so far away, I could drive over (with Bob the dog) and collect them at the weekend if that suited?
Alan

Hi Alan, we are out and about quite a bit this weekend and again on Monday ( I'm retired ) , which is a shame since Holly and Chester, our very friendly spaniels, would love to meet Bob. I usually post items via the Parcel Force 24hr service, so the parts could be with you by Tuesday. Best to continue this conversation via the PMs on this site.

 

[Othen]

Hi Alan, we are out and about quite a bit this weekend and again on Monday ( I'm retired ) , which is a shame since Holly and Chester, our very friendly spaniels, would love to meet Bob. I usually post items via the Parcel Force 24hr service, so the parts could be with you by Tuesday. Best to continue this conversation via the PMs on this site.

Hi,
I've sent you a PM with my cell phone number and email address.
Many thanks,
Alan

 

[Othen]

I wonder what on earth caused the cam carrier to fail like that, seems most unusual. Do you think that the engine has been apart before, maybe someone had a struggle with the endless chain / camshaft / sprocket jigsaw puzzle, overtightened a bolt before the sprocket was properly in place ?

( A possible bodge - get the sprocket welded to the cam, then use a rivet link in the cam chain )

EDIT I also notice the usual CB200 cam chain wear marks in the cylinder head tunnel. New chain might be in order.

I'm wondering whether this motor has been apart fairly recently (maybe a few years) and that whomever did the work didn't get the chain tensioner set up quite right, so the chain ran a bit slack and left those scores on the cylinder head tunnel? There are some chain marks on the rubber tip that goes on the tensioner rod - which is why I'm thinking the above.

I've turned the rubber tip round through 180 degrees, so I think it will be okay to re-use it as I can't find a new one in stock anywhere.

 

[Richard Pitman]

The 160 and 175 twins also use that same part, might be worth looking for a used item from one of those.

Just wondering about your crankcase top, has it been modified to get the bigger liners in ?

If you could pm me your postal address I'll get the cylinder and pistons boxed up, pistons inserted in bores for safer transit. Don't worry about payment yet, I'll send them 'on approval', return them if you don't like them.

Cheers, Richard

 

[Othen]

The 160 and 175 twins also use that same part, might be worth looking for a used item from one of those.

Just wondering about your crankcase top, has it been modified to get the bigger liners in ?

If you could pm me your postal address I'll get the cylinder and pistons boxed up, pistons inserted in bores for safer transit. Don't worry about payment yet, I'll send them 'on approval', return them if you don't like them.

Cheers, Richard

Thank you, that is interesting about the 160/175 twins using the same part.
I've sent you a PM with my details. Super duper.
Alan

 

[Othen]

The 160 and 175 twins also use that same part, might be worth looking for a used item from one of those.

Just wondering about your crankcase top, has it been modified to get the bigger liners in ?

If you could pm me your postal address I'll get the cylinder and pistons boxed up, pistons inserted in bores for safer transit. Don't worry about payment yet, I'll send them 'on approval', return them if you don't like them.

Cheers, Richard

Hi again Richard,
Re the crankcase top: I probably won't be sure until I try your barrels, but at first sight I'd say the bigger hole has been achieved at the expense of the standard liner thickness, rather than fitting bigger liners. Here is the bottom of the block:



This isn't very scientific, but comparing the thickness of the liner walls with the image you posted above I'd say they are much thinner. Indeed I've just measured the liner walls at the bottom at 1.5mm - which I think would be right on the limit for structural and thermal stability. They certainly couldn't have been re-bored to take an oversize CB750 piston.

We'll see when I drop the new barrels in next week.

Alan

 

[Flyin900]

Thank you.
I was thinking of that, but there isn't much room around the head with the motor in the frame. I'd like to get the covers off before pulling the engine out so I'll concentrate on that and creating enough room in my garage/gym to undertake an engine-out repair today.

 

[Flyin900]

In reading your post earlier I was going to suggest flipping the barrels over to see if there was still a ring guide area in the bottom of the sleeves. That picture tells it all, as those liners are wafer thin. I can't imagine any long term running of the motor with that big of an overbore.
I replaced the CL175 Sloper rubber cam chain tensioner bit from CMSNL a few years back, as mine too had wear into the cylinder and tensioner block metal box. Possibly poor maintenance on a PO's part and never tensioning the chain per the FSM recommendations.

While you're in there now a new cam chain if available would be advisable, as they don't fair well when they are eating aluminum and metal material along with their other duties. I also soaked my crankshaft for a week + in Kerosene in a small plastic container just the right size for the assembly. There was lots of very fine aluminum bits that came out of the crankshaft bearings over the soaking time.

I guess it all depends how far and how much you want to do in the rebuild, as there have been a number of surprises already it appears.

 

[Othen]

In reading your post earlier I was going to suggest flipping the barrels over to see if there was still a ring guide area in the bottom of the sleeves. That picture tells it all, as those liners are wafer thin. I can't imagine any long term running of the motor with that big of an overbore.
I replaced the CL175 Sloper rubber cam chain tensioner bit from CMSNL a few years back, as mine too had wear into the cylinder and tensioner block metal box. Possibly poor maintenance on a PO's part and never tensioning the chain per the FSM recommendations.

While you're in there now a new cam chain if available would be advisable, as they don't fair well when they are eating aluminum and metal material along with their other duties. I also soaked my crankshaft for a week + in Kerosene in a small plastic container just the right size for the assembly. There was lots of very fine aluminum bits that came out of the crankshaft bearings over the soaking time.

I guess it all depends how far and how much you want to do in the rebuild, as there have been a number of surprises already it appears.

I think you may see from the photo that there is no ring guide, the liners are very thin at the bottom so I think a PO has taken all the metal out of the originals rather than pressing in larger liners. For me that is a good thing as I hope the crankcase is standard.

The rubber tensioner is normally available from CSMNL, but out of stock at the moment. I can’t find another anywhere, but I think the old one will do, I’ve turned it through 180 degrees.

I hear you about the cam chain, but short of blueprinting the whole engine and gearbox I have to draw the line somewhere. I’m not planning to split the crankcases, so I’ll stick with the original cam chain and tensioner as long as I can get it all to fit properly when I put the motor back together. I am planning to flush the crankcase (with the crank in situ) with kerosene when I remove the pistons (probably tomorrow).

There are usually compromises to be made when fixing older vehicles (unless one is doing an as-new restoration).

Alan

 

[ballbearian]

I think you may see from the photo that there is no ring guide, the liners are very thin at the bottom so I think a PO has taken all the metal out of the originals rather than pressing in larger liners. For me that is a good thing as I hope the crankcase is standard.

The rubber tensioner is normally available from CSMNL, but out of stock at the moment. I can’t find another anywhere, but I think the old one will do, I’ve turned it through 180 degrees.

I hear you about the cam chain, but short of blueprinting the whole engine and gearbox I have to draw the line somewhere. I’m not planning to split the crankcases, so I’ll stick with the original cam chain and tensioner as long as I can get it all to fit properly when I put the motor back together. I am planning to flush the crankcase (with the crank in situ) with kerosene when I remove the pistons (probably tomorrow).

There are usually compromises to be made when fixing older vehicles (unless one is doing an as-new restoration).

Alan

If you had serious sludge in the centrifugal oil filter and visible goop in the bottom of the case near the oil pick up, you may have a very restricted crank oiling. How worn are your small end rod bores?

 

[Flyin900]

Here you go out of eBay Germany. It is the correct part for a 1974-75 CB/CL200 series motor.

Honda CA CB CL SL 160 175 200 K T Chain Tensioner Timing Chain Genuine NOS | eBay

Technical specifications: Height: 15mm Length: 20mm Width: 15 mm Honda Motorcycle 1966 CL160 Honda Motorcycle 1968 CL175 Honda Motorcycle 1969 CL175K3 Honda Motorcycle 1970 CL175K4 Honda Motorcycle 1971 CL175K5 Honda Motorcycle 1972 CL175K6 Honda Motorcycle 1973 CL175K7 Honda Motorcycle 1974...

www.ebay.com

 

[Othen]

Here you go out of eBay Germany. It is the correct part for a 1974-75 CB/CL200 series motor.

Honda CA CB CL SL 160 175 200 K T Chain Tensioner Timing Chain Genuine NOS | eBay

Technical specifications: Height: 15mm Length: 20mm Width: 15 mm Honda Motorcycle 1966 CL160 Honda Motorcycle 1968 CL175 Honda Motorcycle 1969 CL175K3 Honda Motorcycle 1970 CL175K4 Honda Motorcycle 1971 CL175K5 Honda Motorcycle 1972 CL175K6 Honda Motorcycle 1973 CL175K7 Honda Motorcycle 1974...

www.ebay.com

Thank you, that was very kind.
That is exactly the right part, but the seller won‘t post to the UK (maybe a BREXIT thing, I don’t know).
I can't help thinking someone has a box of NOS sitting on a shelf somewhere here in the UK .
Alan

Addendum:

I've found a second hand one on eBay - complete with the plunger and spring:

Rubber tensioner

... but I can see it has striations on one side, so it isn't very much better than the one I have. It would appear that the cam chain running against the tensioner or the sides of the tunnel is very common and something of a design flaw.

 

[Flyin900]

I would contact the seller in Germany to confirm, as it also says he won’t ship to Canada. Sometimes it is how they set up the shipping option on EBay that it shows no shipping. I have had shipments from Germany to Canada from other EBay sellers.

 

[Othen]

I would contact the seller in Germany to confirm, as it also says he won’t ship to Canada. Sometimes it is how they set up the shipping option on EBay that it shows no shipping. I have had shipments from Germany to Canada from other EBay sellers.

... I've sent the seller an email (in my best German - I hope he/she understands!).

 

[Othen]

This morn I've removed the pistons and flushed out the bottom end with kerosene. I filtered the residue and the good news is nothing untoward came out with the paraffin. As far as I can see everything looks okay at the bottom, so I'll screw the engine back together when the barrels/pistons arrive from Richard.

It is hard to know when to stop when recommissioning old machines, short of blueprinting the whole engine and gearbox (which might take months to track down the parts) one is never quite sure whether all the nasties have been uncovered.

Alan

 

[Richard Pitman]

It would appear that the cam chain running against the tensioner or the sides of the tunnel is very common and something of a design flaw.

I'd agree with that. The 200 block is slightly taller than the 175 block, also the tensioner mechanism is a different shape, resulting in the cam chain running closer to the wall even when correctly tensioned, not much room to account for lack of regular adjustments or chain wear.

Honda also made a couple of other odd choices in my view. Having to remove the entire engine side cover to get at the oil spinner is bound to have discouraged some owners from bothering with this regular cleaning task. On the other hand, it does mean that access is available to the oil pump strainer at the same time, and the revised case holds an extra 500ml of oil.

Only sending oil to the one side of the cam, relying on passages in the cam to oil the far side, seems to be a retrograde chance, as the previous system of oil pumped to both sides seemed to work perfectly well. The CB200 does have a higher capacity oil pump than the 175.

Regulars will groan at me repeating myself yet again, but back in the day I rode brand new (run in) examples of both CB175 and CB200 and found their performance more or less identical, both top speed and acceleration. As teenagers, we regularly swapped bikes to try each others. The CB200 had a much deeper exhaust note than the 175, and generally felt more 'grunty', although performance was the same.

 

[Richard Pitman]

Cylinders and pistons boxed up and Parcel Force 24 label printed, ready to go to Post Office tomorrow. I've included the two circlips that I had to remove to release the pistons from the conrods, in a jiffy bag inside one piston skirt. Not that I'm recommending re use.

Personally, with a gasket set on hand, and the engine out, I'd be wanting to split the cases out of simple curiosity, take a look at the kick start mechanism etc. Alternator rotor doesn't have to be removed, only special nut is the one retaining the oil filter spinner / primary drive sprocket, everything else ( clutch and oil pump ) is a five minute job to remove. Plus Hondabond for the case halves.

 

[Othen]

Cylinders and pistons boxed up and Parcel Force 24 label printed, ready to go to Post Office tomorrow. I've included the two circlips that I had to remove to release the pistons from the conrods, in a jiffy bag inside one piston skirt. Not that I'm recommending re use.

Personally, with a gasket set on hand, and the engine out, I'd be wanting to split the cases out of simple curiosity, take a look at the kick start mechanism etc. Alternator rotor doesn't have to be removed, only special nut is the one retaining the oil filter spinner / primary drive sprocket, everything else ( clutch and oil pump ) is a five minute job to remove. Plus Hondabond for the case halves.

Thank you for that - it was so kind of you.

I'll see how it all goes back together - and in particular whether I think the cam chain is being correctly tensioned. If I'm not happy about it I'll split the cases to check things more thoroughly.

I'd certainly agree about there not being much clearance for the cam chain inside - I've just had a look at the configuration and can see everything is very snug indeed.

Alan

 

[Richard Pitman]

Had a brief panic this morning when I checked the Parcel Force tracking, looked as though parcel had gone astray. However, Google Maps Streetview is a wonderful tool, and it looks as though the front door in their photo matches yours on Streetview. MR GARY ??

 

[Othen]

Had a brief panic this morning when I checked the Parcel Force tracking, looked as though parcel had gone astray. However, Google Maps Streetview is a wonderful tool, and it looks as though the front door in their photo matches yours on Streetview. MR GARY ??

Good morning,

See my personal message - I can confirm the parcel arrived yesterday and the parts are in excellent condition. I don't know whom Mr Gary might be - but that doesn't matter - it came to the right address.

Many thanks,

Alan

 

[Othen]

I'd agree with that. The 200 block is slightly taller than the 175 block, also the tensioner mechanism is a different shape, resulting in the cam chain running closer to the wall even when correctly tensioned, not much room to account for lack of regular adjustments or chain wear.

Honda also made a couple of other odd choices in my view. Having to remove the entire engine side cover to get at the oil spinner is bound to have discouraged some owners from bothering with this regular cleaning task. On the other hand, it does mean that access is available to the oil pump strainer at the same time, and the revised case holds an extra 500ml of oil.

Only sending oil to the one side of the cam, relying on passages in the cam to oil the far side, seems to be a retrograde chance, as the previous system of oil pumped to both sides seemed to work perfectly well. The CB200 does have a higher capacity oil pump than the 175.

Regulars will groan at me repeating myself yet again, but back in the day I rode brand new (run in) examples of both CB175 and CB200 and found their performance more or less identical, both top speed and acceleration. As teenagers, we regularly swapped bikes to try each others. The CB200 had a much deeper exhaust note than the 175, and generally felt more 'grunty', although performance was the same.

I was doing a couple of preparatory jobs before starting to reassemble the motor, one of which was cleaning the oil filter. I agree that it was an odd design decision to require the whole right side engine casing to be removed in order to do the job, that will have deterred many owners from carrying out proper maintenance on these motorcycles.

I‘ve cleaned out the gauze filter with some IPA and put it back together - there isn’t much protecting this motor from contamination. When it came to the centrifugal filter’s cap I couldn’t quite see how it came off:



The workshop manual says to just pull off the cover off the rotor with pliers (see pp 9), but that doesn’t seem right. Obviously I don’t want to damage anything on my 47 year old engine, so can anyone tell me how to remove the cover without breaking anything?

Alan

 

[Flyin900]

Someone has already damaged the “ear” and broken them off. Once you remove the inner 6mm JIS screw there is another threaded section in there that will take a 8mm bolt? with a fine thread design. You thread that into the cap and it will bottom out inside and push it off.

To parrot BB post once your into it that far it is worth splitting the cases and seeing what going on in there. I did what your doing on my CL175 rebuild 5 years ago, top end only. My bike is a display model only, so it was never ridden.

I am just installing the motor now after correcting some previous top end damage and this time I tore the whole motor down. I found remains of a holed piston in the sump and a badly worn middle shift fork with gear damage. The bike would have never shifted correctly if not repaired.

 

[Richard Pitman]

As above, one of the handlebar mounting bolts is ideal for use as a puller. But worse news, based on that photo the filter cap is scrap, the area around the central hole is a bearing surface, forming a seal against the spring loaded valve in the outer cover. Any damage here results in a loss of oil pressure. As it happens, the CB200 motor that I mentioned had exactly this problem.

My duff one

and its replacement

 

[ancientdad]

The workshop manual says to just pull off the cover off the rotor with pliers (see pp 9), but that doesn’t seem right. Obviously I don’t want to damage anything on my 47 year old engine, so can anyone tell me how to remove the cover without breaking anything?

Alan

Alan, do you have the FSM for your bike? Or are you using an aftermarket manual? If you do not have the FSM, let me know and I'll get a link from our library for you.

 

[Othen]

Someone has already damaged the “ear” and broken them off. Once you remove the inner 6mm JIS screw there is another threaded section in there that will take a 8mm bolt? with a fine thread design. You thread that into the cap and it will bottom out inside and push it off.

To parrot BB post once your into it that far it is worth splitting the cases and seeing what going on in there. I did what your doing on my CL175 rebuild 5 years ago, top end only. My bike is a display model only, so it was never ridden.

I am just installing the motor now after correcting some previous top end damage and this time I tore the whole motor down. I found remains of a holed piston in the sump and a badly worn middle shift fork with gear damage. The bike would have never shifted correctly if not repaired.

It is easy when you know how:



I don’t think that had been off for a long time (bad news), but what I found inside wasn’t too bad (good news, particularly considering the bad news).

Many thanks. The Honda manual didn’t cover itself in glory at that juncture, although it does talk about using an 8mm bolt as a driver later on in the engine section (pp19).

Alan

 

[Othen]

Alan, do you have the FSM for your bike? Or are you using an aftermarket manual? If you do not have the FSM, let me know and I'll get a link from our library for you.

This is the manual I have:



… it looks the same style as the one I have for my Goldwing, so I’m assuming it is the correct one? It would be very kind of you to send a link so I could download a library copy so I could check it is the same.

Alan