@ballbearian covered this in his build thread starting here. Member 66Sprint (who recently passed) came up with a nice solution to the over advance issue.
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1961 CB72 The Long and Winding Road
- Thread starter Pridanc
- Start date
crazypj
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2020
- Total Posts
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The centrifugal filter is actually much more efficient than paper one, particularly if you use more than 6K rpm.
There is a discussion about it on here somewhere
There is a discussion about it on here somewhere
Pridanc
Veteran Member
Hey crazypj,
Thanks for jumping in.
After all the time spent cleaning this little beast, and then reading up on centrifugal filters, I played a game of Roshambo to settle it as I was stuck.
Anyway there's no question a centrifuge is a super interesting way to keep the life blood clean but all said and done, I'm good with my choice here.
Stay well!
Thanks for jumping in.
After all the time spent cleaning this little beast, and then reading up on centrifugal filters, I played a game of Roshambo to settle it as I was stuck.
Anyway there's no question a centrifuge is a super interesting way to keep the life blood clean but all said and done, I'm good with my choice here.
Stay well!
crazypj
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2020
- Total Posts
- 1,543
- Total likes
- 997
I had to look up Roshambo, never heard it before. 
ballbearian
Veteran Member
This is a great thread, really enjoying it. The work on cleaning the crank oilways and sludge traps in it were extra special.
The roll pin advance limiters must be holding up ok in mine so far.
The roll pin advance limiters must be holding up ok in mine so far.
Pridanc
Veteran Member
crazy, I only knew it because of my kids. When I grew up it was Rock-Paper-Scissors. You should have seen me trying to spell it. Thank gosh for the net, otherwise it would have been ugly.I had to look up Roshambo, never heard it before.
Pridanc
Veteran Member
#28
By now y'all know that as I leave the head and return to the bottom end, I can't imagine I'm not forgetting something so it'll be no surprise if I go back. If I do, I'll do my best to say I did in case anyone wants to see what googball thing I dropped.
Bottom end and gears.
Before jumping in, my brain has this tease of some little chicklet thing (in the red circle) that can be installed backwards as it can physically go back incorrectly, but am told the mechanism will not work properly or perhaps not as well as it would.. So I'm openly saying I think it is the little chicklet thing mentioned to me and is a part of the kick start mechanism. IF my brain serves me, you can put it in flipped (side to side, not end to end) and it will work but not well? Say I the expert here. As I do not remember if this is the "don't forget" bit that was mentioned to me, just make sure yours goes back together like this and you are covered.
No matter what, keep copious pictures as you take it apart and then put it all back the way you came. As mentioned, non of this is hard so just go slow and if something seems amiss, stop and think about it. Every piece is there for a reason and knowing its job also then means there is only one place it can go.
By now you know that once I've spent the time to get somewhere, like inside an old engine, I'm replacing all the parts that seem slightly too worn. Typically this is bearings, bushings and any seals. If you find parts not too worn in your opinion, you do not have to replace them but I'd replace the seals regardless. Regardless , this is your baby so the decision is yours. As I'm lazy. I tend to do the "out with the old" trick very often. So lets not mention this out-with-the-old to my wife as I rather enjoy being inside my old house. Deal?
Bearings, IMO, are good if not overly sloppy and roll without any glitch's, bumps, or complaints. Again mine felt ok and many passed my smell test, and I have a sensitive nose. One small example is this bush which was visibly worn in this circled area and although it was working at doing its job, it had to go IMO.
Once the lower half of the engine case was pulled of, it was time to clean and inspect. Old engines get nasty with age. OK, so do Old ppl like me.
We've discussed the bearings and bushes, but time to look hard at all those part that make up the transmission. Are the dogs on the gears good? Are the grooves in the shifting drum good? Is any part of the shift forks warn enough to impart slop? Some of this can impede function but equally bad, create imprecision when none was meant to be. In my case, this is a restoration and not just an exploration to catch what was getting long on tooth and then leaving it. A "resto" means making it new again. As I've spent more hours than I want to know exploring a resto, in many ways, is easier. Things that wear tend to have little chance of staying which means less time looking and agonizing. See? EZ-er...for me!
The Shift drum is at the very top. Looks like a rolling pin for small pizzas. Those curvy slots have some pins that ride in them, forcibly moving things around. When you operate the shift lever with your foot, you turn this drum which then moves the forks that select a gear. So look at the slots and the pin end of the bolts. All this is pointed out in purple.
In my experience forks tend to wear at the yellow circles. These can wear in more than just this area but this is typically the first area. Do they have to be perfect, well no, but those forks slide into a groove of two gears (one fork, one gear) as can be seen here above. Follow the blue lines. The half moon shape in the forks fit into the groove you see in the gear here. Just look for wear and if you think it too much, then phone-a-fren who's done this before, OR, look at a few pictures online. FleaBay typically has good pictures to help you decide.
Gears teeth should still have good form. Typically wear appears on one side of each tooth so if you see a side that no longer has the shape of the other side of the same tooth, time to think harder. And look at the dogs. That is the dogs the arrows point to below. (you can also see dogs on the gear above as another point of reference.)
Dogs are wear items but when these edges get too worn, you may want to replace the gear/gears. As you can see here these edges look sharp and precise. As they wear, these edges grow, as in the radius gets larger and less defined. If you look close, you can see that the sides of the dogs, lets call it their left and right side (not top or bottom?) are tapered in. They have a reverse cut which helps the dogs pull each other together under load. As the edges become rounded corners, there is less and less taper to grab to the dogs become less effective. Oh yes, the still work but shifting may need to be more authoritative with damage and age.
Before I leave this post, I want to mention my gear choices and why. This topic of to X or not to X is well documented. Nonetheless as a bum who's changed too many gears in quick change dog boxes for cars, I have gear charting stuff to take the gear ratio info and stare. These days this is not so innocent as it once was because I now drool. Not from a cool factor but just because. Hey, old dogs drool OK? Sad, I know.
I'm sure this is out there 100 times but what the heck, here it is again. And I've got numbers as well but a graph like this is generally all telling for me. If I need more info to help sway me, then I grab the numbers.
Forgive the blurriness as my computer and I were arguing and it won. However it sure seems to me to be clear enough to get the point across. Two charts are combined here.
One is the OE as delivered gear stack in this engine in all black. The chart with the purple bits is the famed X box. 1st gear and 4th gears are the same so share the same bit of black, but this displays
the new 2nd and 3rd gears and the change they bring in purple. Clearly, the X box has less rpm drop between the lower gears and in hind sight,
this may well be the right choice for many of y'all. But for me, a guy who doesn't care for stop-n-go traffic of a city, the OE box fits my bill for the
gentle rolling hills and curves I prefer. Top 3 gears are closer making it easier to keep the little buzzer on the boild. Like most everything here in the description of my journey, the choice is yours.
And even if you decide later you'd like to give the other stack a try, well step right up as you can! No need to buy any other parts. I will however toss out that this just might fall in the PITA range of things
to do on a Saturday afternoon.
Enjoy your weekend as I'm off to watch more of the LeMans 24. Talk later.
By now y'all know that as I leave the head and return to the bottom end, I can't imagine I'm not forgetting something so it'll be no surprise if I go back. If I do, I'll do my best to say I did in case anyone wants to see what googball thing I dropped.
Bottom end and gears.
Before jumping in, my brain has this tease of some little chicklet thing (in the red circle) that can be installed backwards as it can physically go back incorrectly, but am told the mechanism will not work properly or perhaps not as well as it would.. So I'm openly saying I think it is the little chicklet thing mentioned to me and is a part of the kick start mechanism. IF my brain serves me, you can put it in flipped (side to side, not end to end) and it will work but not well? Say I the expert here. As I do not remember if this is the "don't forget" bit that was mentioned to me, just make sure yours goes back together like this and you are covered.
No matter what, keep copious pictures as you take it apart and then put it all back the way you came. As mentioned, non of this is hard so just go slow and if something seems amiss, stop and think about it. Every piece is there for a reason and knowing its job also then means there is only one place it can go.
By now you know that once I've spent the time to get somewhere, like inside an old engine, I'm replacing all the parts that seem slightly too worn. Typically this is bearings, bushings and any seals. If you find parts not too worn in your opinion, you do not have to replace them but I'd replace the seals regardless. Regardless , this is your baby so the decision is yours. As I'm lazy. I tend to do the "out with the old" trick very often. So lets not mention this out-with-the-old to my wife as I rather enjoy being inside my old house. Deal?
Bearings, IMO, are good if not overly sloppy and roll without any glitch's, bumps, or complaints. Again mine felt ok and many passed my smell test, and I have a sensitive nose. One small example is this bush which was visibly worn in this circled area and although it was working at doing its job, it had to go IMO.
Once the lower half of the engine case was pulled of, it was time to clean and inspect. Old engines get nasty with age. OK, so do Old ppl like me.
We've discussed the bearings and bushes, but time to look hard at all those part that make up the transmission. Are the dogs on the gears good? Are the grooves in the shifting drum good? Is any part of the shift forks warn enough to impart slop? Some of this can impede function but equally bad, create imprecision when none was meant to be. In my case, this is a restoration and not just an exploration to catch what was getting long on tooth and then leaving it. A "resto" means making it new again. As I've spent more hours than I want to know exploring a resto, in many ways, is easier. Things that wear tend to have little chance of staying which means less time looking and agonizing. See? EZ-er...for me!
The Shift drum is at the very top. Looks like a rolling pin for small pizzas. Those curvy slots have some pins that ride in them, forcibly moving things around. When you operate the shift lever with your foot, you turn this drum which then moves the forks that select a gear. So look at the slots and the pin end of the bolts. All this is pointed out in purple.
In my experience forks tend to wear at the yellow circles. These can wear in more than just this area but this is typically the first area. Do they have to be perfect, well no, but those forks slide into a groove of two gears (one fork, one gear) as can be seen here above. Follow the blue lines. The half moon shape in the forks fit into the groove you see in the gear here. Just look for wear and if you think it too much, then phone-a-fren who's done this before, OR, look at a few pictures online. FleaBay typically has good pictures to help you decide.
Gears teeth should still have good form. Typically wear appears on one side of each tooth so if you see a side that no longer has the shape of the other side of the same tooth, time to think harder. And look at the dogs. That is the dogs the arrows point to below. (you can also see dogs on the gear above as another point of reference.)
Dogs are wear items but when these edges get too worn, you may want to replace the gear/gears. As you can see here these edges look sharp and precise. As they wear, these edges grow, as in the radius gets larger and less defined. If you look close, you can see that the sides of the dogs, lets call it their left and right side (not top or bottom?) are tapered in. They have a reverse cut which helps the dogs pull each other together under load. As the edges become rounded corners, there is less and less taper to grab to the dogs become less effective. Oh yes, the still work but shifting may need to be more authoritative with damage and age. Before I leave this post, I want to mention my gear choices and why. This topic of to X or not to X is well documented. Nonetheless as a bum who's changed too many gears in quick change dog boxes for cars, I have gear charting stuff to take the gear ratio info and stare. These days this is not so innocent as it once was because I now drool. Not from a cool factor but just because. Hey, old dogs drool OK? Sad, I know.
I'm sure this is out there 100 times but what the heck, here it is again. And I've got numbers as well but a graph like this is generally all telling for me. If I need more info to help sway me, then I grab the numbers.
Forgive the blurriness as my computer and I were arguing and it won. However it sure seems to me to be clear enough to get the point across. Two charts are combined here.
One is the OE as delivered gear stack in this engine in all black. The chart with the purple bits is the famed X box. 1st gear and 4th gears are the same so share the same bit of black, but this displays
the new 2nd and 3rd gears and the change they bring in purple. Clearly, the X box has less rpm drop between the lower gears and in hind sight,
this may well be the right choice for many of y'all. But for me, a guy who doesn't care for stop-n-go traffic of a city, the OE box fits my bill for the
gentle rolling hills and curves I prefer. Top 3 gears are closer making it easier to keep the little buzzer on the boild. Like most everything here in the description of my journey, the choice is yours.
And even if you decide later you'd like to give the other stack a try, well step right up as you can! No need to buy any other parts. I will however toss out that this just might fall in the PITA range of things
to do on a Saturday afternoon.
Enjoy your weekend as I'm off to watch more of the LeMans 24. Talk later.