1971 CB350 . . . 40 year hibernation

ballbearian said:
The footbar you just got looks like it will work for CB down pipes. The powdercoated one seems like a CL.
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Thanks. The new acquisition was advertised as a CB step bar and your assessment of the other one agrees with mine. I haven't decided which one I'll use yet, but I'm giving the ugly one a cheap-skate silver metallic paint job and will reevaluate after that is finished.

I didn't really make any progress this weekend due to a leaky fork, but, hopefully, I'll be making forward progress again soon.
 
Progress for this weekend...
  • installed new crush washers in the fork lowers, refilled and reinstalled the forks;
  • reinstalled front fender and front wheel using correct flange bolts;
  • installed the front fender bracket with new fasteners from Partzilla;
  • reinstalled the front wheel;
  • installed the stay bracket for the rear hub on the swingarm;
  • installed a second-hand brake pedal;
  • installed a second-hand CB step bar;
  • installed rear brake rod on the pedal and hub.
Getting the pin joint and hitch pin into that rear brake rod was pretty time consuming — at least 45 minutes of fiddling around. There isn't much space between the swingarm and motor to get any fingers in there!

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Probably should have mentioned it, but it's a lot easier if you do that before putting the swingarm back in the frame.
 
ancientdad said:
Probably should have mentioned it, but it's a lot easier if you do that before putting the swingarm back in the frame.
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I don't mind learning the hard way. Makes me think more about how everything goes together.

Also, I was swapping out the bent brake pedal for a replacement, so I still would have had to do this the hard way or remove the rear wheel and swingarm again just to change the pedal.
 
stl360+450 said:
I don't mind learning the hard way. Makes me think more about how everything goes together.

Also, I was swapping out the bent brake pedal for a replacement, so I still would have had to do this the hard way or remove the rear wheel and swingarm again just to change the pedal.
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That's a nice pile of progress. I enjoy that phase of putting together all the cleaned up, painted, lubricated sub assemblies and parts. I think, I too, have learned to fit the brake strap and pedal rod to the swingarm and pedal first. Experience is slowly accumulating.
I like the red grease, it almost looks like a little blood, which is very hardcore resto. :ROFLMAO:
 
ballbearian said:
That's a nice pile of progress. I enjoy that phase of putting together all the cleaned up, painted, lubricated sub assemblies and parts. I think, I too, have learned to fit the brake strap and pedal rod to the swingarm and pedal first. Experience is slowly accumulating.
I like the red grease, it almost looks like a little blood, which is very hardcore resto. :ROFLMAO:
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If there’s no blood, it’s not a project :)
 
Slow goings lately. I haven't had a lot of garage time the last few weeks. Today I was trying to sort out gauge lighting from a couple of used gauge wiring purchases, but none of them were in super great condition. So, I thought better of that and decided to order new gauge lighting from Sparck Moto – my first purchase with them.
 
Took stock of my exhaust brackets today. Here's what came with the bike.

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Here's what CMSNL shows for the 1971 CL350. I'm not sure what model year my exhaust came from since the bike itself is a CB.

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It looks like I have two correct parts and am missing two. Do the other bits seem like Honda parts or just some random pieces?
 
stl360+450 said:
I recently acquired a 1971 CB350 step bar to compare with the one I had powder coated. I did a test fit and found that new step bar provides more clearance on the clutch cover side.

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The black footbar is for the linkage style shifter and will be too far back to reach a stock direct shifter. Maybe a shorter direct shifter could work.
 
ballbearian said:
The black footbar is for the linkage style shifter and will be too far back to reach a stock direct shifter. Maybe a shorter direct shifter could work.
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Thanks, Tom. Based on your findings, I decided to acquire a linkage shifter for this project, although 4-into-1 seems to sell both long and short shifters of the direct variety for the 350. The linkage shifter will look better on this bike.

Hopefully I'll get this project moving again towards the end of spring as school winds down. I don't have enough free time right now to tackle some of the next tasks, including installation of the aftermarket wiring harness.
 
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I haven't forgotten about this project and hope to spend more time on it over the next few weeks. I decided to inspect the key switch today and found no connectivity regardless of the key position. It's a bit grimy, so I'll plan to take it apart for a cleaning. That will allow me to freshen up the black paint or maybe go silver to match the frame.
 
stl360+450 said:
I haven't forgotten about this project and hope to spend more time on it over the next few weeks. I decided to inspect the key switch today and found no connectivity regardless of the key position. It's a bit grimy, so I'll plan to take it apart for a cleaning. That will allow me to freshen up the black paint or maybe go silver to match the frame.
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I'm good with a sharpie to mark the metal housing to get the bakelite backing put back right and cleaning the contacts, but I have one that needs the key cylinder fixed from someone using a screwdriver or something. I'd like to keep that original key that also fits the fork lock and seat lock. Those tiny springs and pins in there are missing a few.
 
Does the cover just pry off?

Oh — I see there are three dimples that hold the backing inside the cylinder. Got it apart now.
 
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ballbearian said:
Just to do the contacts, you have to straighten 3 little dented in spots on the back where the black bakelite fits the metal housing.
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Took me a second to see what the dimples were for.

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I found the little red screwdriver in this picture when I was about 7 or 8. I probably don't go a week without using it for something.
 
ballbearian said:
I'm good with a sharpie to mark the metal housing to get the bakelite backing put back right and cleaning the contacts, but I have one that needs the key cylinder fixed from someone using a screwdriver or something. I'd like to keep that original key that also fits the fork lock and seat lock. Those tiny springs and pins in there are missing a few.
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I'm impressed if you can rebuild one of these key switches successfully. I tried cleaning mine this evening. The key cylinder is wonky — the key must be rocked to turn it counter clockwise. The contacts and the bakelite housing have significant wear from the travel of the moving parts. I put it back together and was getting spotty and high resistance measurements. Ultimately, I decided to go with an Emgo replacement to remove the concern of a poor contact.

In your case, the goal would be to repair or rebuild the cylinder? Do you think a locksmith could/would do that?
 
stl360+450 said:
I'm impressed if you can rebuild one of these key switches successfully. I tried cleaning mine this evening. The key cylinder is wonky — the key must be rocked to turn it counter clockwise. The contacts and the bakelite housing have significant wear from the travel of the moving parts. I put it back together and was getting spotty and high resistance measurements. Ultimately, I decided to go with an Emgo replacement to remove the concern of a poor contact.

In your case, the goal would be to repair or rebuild the cylinder? Do you think a locksmith could/would do that?
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I don't know, it might be too messed up, even for a locksmith. I wouldn't want it to be unreliable or have the key fall out while riding. I'm using an Emgo now too that's new but it would be nice not to have two different keys.
I never had a key from the PO and the seat lock was disabled by him, by removing the latch bar inside, I made a latch bar and got a key from 12ozPBR, which worked great for the seat and fork, then noticed the cylinder on the ignition did not look very good. Oh well, the Emgo plan B may have to be the permanent solution.
 
I think the pins wear down over time. You have brass pins rubbing against steel keys, under pressure from the tiny brass springs that also fatigue. I have to rock the key to get the cylinder turning on my Bomber. Going in to the cylinder is challenging. I expect you have to do it on a piece of dark color velvet so the tiny pieces don't disappear, and a jeweler's loupe magnifier would help a lot. And a very patient, steady hand.
 
It is amazing that these 50-60 year old switches still work. Like was said, the pins and springs wear in the cylinders (who has a stash of those?) and the erosion and pitting of the contacts limits how much saving of the electrical parts can be done even after flat sanding the main contact surface of the bakelite piece.

My best shot might be to just patiently search for a used switch with the same key code on ebay, even if I have to wiggle and jiggle, stand on only my left foot with my tongue sticking out to the right.

Sometimes a new key will work better in those old ones that require finesse to turn though.

 
ballbearian said:
My best shot might be to just patiently search for a used switch with the same key code on ebay, even if I have to wiggle and jiggle, stand on only my left foot with my tongue sticking out to the right.
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What about obtaining a set of matching locks from another bike? Aren't they all changeable?
 
stl360+450 said:
What about obtaining a set of matching locks from another bike? Aren't they all changeable?
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Not really, but my '72 CB350 (Mom's Bike) has the same set of three, and it is the same key T9927 (imagine that!). The earlier bikes had a different fork and a different lock there. No seat locks prior to '72 either, but ignition switches are similar, except the wiring plug (no big deal).
My messed up ignition switch still has one pin and spring left in it, but I'm loathe to trust it, and the cylinder housing has broken the two swagged pins which attach to the round metal housing for the electrical half.
It's just a rainy day project for when I don't have 50k other things to do.

I only have 3 other total rebuild 350 projects left. One of them, thanks to you. 4, if you count Outobie's K0. :D
 
stl360+450 said:
What about obtaining a set of matching locks from another bike? Aren't they all changeable?
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ballbearian said:
Not really, but my '72 CB350 (Mom's Bike) has the same set of three, and it is the same key T9927 (imagine that!). The earlier bikes had a different fork and a different lock there. No seat locks prior to '72 either, but ignition switches are similar, except the wiring plug (no big deal).​
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Is there a lock that cannot be removed and replaced on the 350's or were you only pointing out that the type and number of locks changed over the production run? I saw a relevant thread about the steering lock being removable here. Probably you're already aware, but I figured I would share the link just to be sure.
 
stl360+450 said:
Is there a lock that cannot be removed and replaced on the 350's or were you only pointing out that the type and number of locks changed over the production run? I saw a relevant thread about the steering lock being removable here. Probably you're already aware, but I figured I would share the link just to be sure.
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I'm sorry for not being more specific with my 'not really'. I meant they are not all interchangeable due to production changes, specifically to the fork locks. They are somewhat similar and are removable, but the early and late styles do not interchange, IIRC.

There was a change in the number of locks as the seat lock was added in '72, making 3 total.

All the fork lock cylinders are easily removable with a key or if it is 'picked'. The small cross head screw keeps it from falling out when it is thus turned.
 
ballbearian said:
I'm sorry for not being more specific with my 'not really'.
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No apology needed — forum format (like any written format) makes it easy for small miscommunications to occur and a little more awkward to square them away.

Not sure which year has need in your herd, but I do see some complete lock sets on eBay. However, they also want more for them than I would have expected.
 
According to CMSNL, only the first couple years were different, The second part number here with the 230 middle number fits all models after that. Earlier style was carried over from the CB72 it seems.

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stl360+450 said:
they also want more for them than I would have expected.
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Yeah, I'm not interested in buying any of them at this time, except maybe a used key switch for the '73 CL, but only if it has a T9927 cylinder.

I do have an extra fork lock that came in the ebay steering stem I replaced on the same bike, but no key for it. Come to think of it, I probably just removed the screw and it came right out. I previously said a key or 'pick job' was needed but now I think that's wrong. If it is unlocked it will come out.
 
ballbearian said:
I do have an extra fork lock that came in the ebay steering stem I replaced on the same bike, but no key for it. Come to think of it, I probably just removed the screw and it came right out. I previously said a key or 'pick job' was needed but now I think that's wrong. If it is unlocked it will come out.
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I think you still need the key to rotate it in order to remove it when the cover is off.
 
Since I gave up on salvaging the original ignition switch, I decided to try to accomplish at least one other task with this bike today. I had been putting off installing the chain guard for lack of a grommet, but found that a 3/8" grommet would do okay at the back of the chain guard. From the parts diagram, I couldn't tell whether the chain guard should be on the outside or inside of the swingarm in the back. Looking at the pieces it seemed like it should be on the inside, but my instinct was telling me it should go on the outside. I'm worried about the clearance with the sprocket bolts, so I'd appreciate confirmation/correction on the chain guard position. Eventually, I'd like to use a Honda bolt there, so I'll add it to a list for a future order.

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I'm not ready to put a cotter pin in the axle nut, but I will get to that.
 
stl360+450 said:
I looked through the build thread by @GaryJames and found that I installed the chain guard the same way he did, so I guess I'm good.
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I wondered about that myself after going through something similar with mine, but looking at yours it's obvious that the inside is the correct position.
 
stl360+450 said:
Patina? I will add spacer cleaning to the to do list. If all goes as planned, it won't spin at all.
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Based on the look of the 'patina', it would seem the spacer has been put back in the hub in a reversed position from its last orientation. That alone should have required it to be cleaned. :ROFLMAO:
 
Today I worked on lighting for the gauges. I am using T10 sockets available from Sparck Moto with incandescant bulbs (for now) and PVC sleeving from Vintage Connections. For the speedometer, it's a single green+brown/white pair and it was difficult to feed both wires through the smallest (6mm) sleeve that I ordered. I ended up clipping off one connector (brown/white) to feed that wire through and then replaced the connector. I used a larger sleeve for the six wires on the tachometer (either 9 or 11mm?) and, with some difficulty, I was able to feed all six wires through, one at a time.

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I am using a 360 front end on this 350 and the 360 gauge bracket is not designed for the 350 gauges. In order to mount them to the bracket without any alterations, the gauges must be rotated outwards. The needles will still point to the right place on the gauges, so this seems an okay trade-off for the time being. The 350 bracket won't mount easily to the 360 front end.
 
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There are two clearance questions I would like to ask after installing the chain guard and passenger pegs on this CB350.

The picture below shows a side view of the chain guard and rear sprocket. The nuts/studs on the sprocket come fairly close to the nut insert on the back side of the chain guard. I'd prefer to have the chain guard on the other side of the swingarm, but I gather this is how it was designed. Is this normal?

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The next picture looks down on the bolt for the rear peg on the left side. The bike is on the center stand, so the swingarm is at the bottom of travel, but it looks like the swingarm would contact the bolt head if its range of motion wasn't limited by the shocks. Is this normal? (There is sufficient vertical clearance, which cannot be judged from this angle.)

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Finally, with the CB360 headlight bracket, I realized I was missing a grommet for the lower attachment point. I scrounged one from a collection of cast-offs and it seems like it will work. How many demerits does one get for such shenanigans?

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The missing grommet.

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LOL at the last one... you could just use a razor knife and slice some thickness off the backside of that incorrect grommet. Leaving it like it is would certainly be worth at least one demerit. :) If the spacer length is too long after trimming the grommet, you could grind the spacer length down a bit.

Both the CB and CL350/360 had passenger pegs mounted to essentially the same place you're using and the original bolts would have been the same, so it shouldn't hit the swingarm unless something isn't right.

Continuing in reverse answer order, was the chain guard on the inside originally? I thought it was earlier in this thread and the bracket seems to be bent for that. This picture from BaT on a pristine CL350 shows it inside the swingarm, and the clearance on your bike between the sprocket studs and the chain guard bolt/nut seems adequate since those components don't move from their respective positions.

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ancientdad said:
Continuing in reverse answer order, was the chain guard on the inside originally? I thought it was earlier in this thread and the bracket seems to be bent for that. This picture from BaT on a pristine CL350 shows it inside the swingarm, and the clearance on your bike between the sprocket studs and the chain guard bolt/nut seems adequate since those components don't move from their respective positions.

AF83D4A7-AC53-4ADB-AF94-C56B6A6A0C72-50110-scaled.jpeg
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My 69 has it on the inside. Not that this is definitive since the 69 also doesn’t have a grommet and the rear nut is fixed.

Every pic of a 71 I found has it on the inside.

Is that a stock nut too? Seems huge to me to hold a chain guard on.
 
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