CB160 Blue on White maybe

ancientdad said:
Well that's interesting to hear, I'd imagine there are few around these days who would want to bother with them so that could be an asset in the future if they're willing to take in work shipped to them from out of state.

Your parts are looking nice and clean, ready to rock and roll.
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I can ask more when I go pick up 2nd jug about cranks and mail in jobs. Right now need to do some Honda-bondage on the cases and move on to head work.

Thanks, looking forward to actually finishing a motor.
 
ballbearian said:
Question. 160 cam lobe heights, can't seem to find any numbers in the nice drawings, info boxes and spec pages in the FSM.
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Yep no specs on that cam, yet the CL175 Sloper gives a spec which you may already have available. If there is no visible wear on the lobes that looks sketchy, I think your fine to use the best one of the parts you have in stock.
These motors are pretty basic and as AD noted the seat of the pants test would be difficult to tell a used cam from a new one IMO. At 16 HP there's not a lot going on there that would be detrimental if the lobes look decent.
 
Flyin900 said:
Yep no specs on that cam, yet the CL175 Sloper gives a spec which you may already have available. If there is no visible wear on the lobes that looks sketchy, I think your fine to use the best one of the parts you have in stock.
These motors are pretty basic and as AD noted the seat of the pants test would be difficult to tell a used cam from a new one IMO. At 16 HP there's not a lot going on there that would be detrimental if the lobes look decent.
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I'm feeling pretty confident with the 2 cams I have. I'm not sure if the Do The Ton forum info was pertaining to the 175 sloper or up right but both are probably different from the 160.
I probably posted the question here because I was initially incensed that the info was obviously missing from the FSM, almost as if a taunt from the past.
It has been fun working through all this and sharing with other archeo/mechanics.

Please don't harsh on my firebreathing mill:lol:
 
Finally pistons and cylinders in and on. Cases together and all turning and shifting smooth. Yes, I dropped the cam chain but only once and I forgot something here so this was the first attempt. Man, those wrist pin clips are a bear to get in but they are in with gaps at 12 o'clock.

Piston ring gaps were set at 11/3/7 o'clock (and mirror on other cylinder) since using a one piece OEM oil ring and did not want any on the front or back thrust faces (thanks again all for the other thread info).

Oh yeah, I did lose a wrist pin clip down inside but was able to shake it out and learned to put a rag around the piston base to prevent that again.

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I could not remember if the top of the cylinder had 4 knock pins so looking at the parts book there isn't even any shown, fortunately I had a photo showing them all at the disassembly.
 
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ballbearian said:
Finally pistons and cylinders in and on. Cases together and all turning and shifting smooth. Yes, I dropped the cam chain but only once and I forgot something here so this was the first attempt. Man, those wrist pin clips are a bear to get in but they are in with gaps at 12 o'clock.

Piston ring gaps were set at 11/3/7 o'clock (and mirror on other cylinder) since using a one piece OEM oil ring and did not want any on the front or back thrust faces (thanks again all for the other thread info).

I could not remember if the top of the cylinder had 4 knock pins so looking at the parts book there isn't even any shown, fortunately I had a photo showing them all at the disassembly.
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Looking good and the pistons are facing the right intake markings too.;)

There are two light green O rings that go on two of the knock pins to seal the oil passages up where it passes up the engine studs. Rear ones I think yet check the FSM to be sure. Unless the CB160 motor doesn’t use the same setup as the CL175 sloper engine.
 
Head work

Only one head needed seat and valve cutting at the machinist. I didn't have time to sand the surfaces so here I am doing it now on a 1/2" plate glass with 220 grit. Sorry I didn't have a before pic of the surface but it seemed to need it and I suppose I should have done the top of the cylinder too. It wasn't too bad refitting the cylinder back down over the rings so what's once more.

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All the valves were not cupped or pitted so I will lap them some and go with them.
 
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The machinist can deck the head pretty quickly after the valve work to save you the trouble of doing it by hand afterwards. I have done the same too, yet prefer the machinist to do it now, if the head is there for other work.
 
Flyin900 said:
The machinist can deck the head pretty quickly after the valve work to save you the trouble of doing it by hand afterwards. I have done the same too, yet prefer the machinist to do it now, if the head is there for other work.
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I must have had tunnel vision or lack of foresight/planning so I did not ask to check it out and do if necessary and kind of glad because when I picked it up I asked and got a $90 quote. It was already $200 for the valve seats and valve edges.
 
I forgot the knock pins on the first go round :lol:. New green O's are ready when I get the head done. Yes, rear.
At least I got the cam chain routed correctly. That was the main reason for pulling the head.
 
ballbearian said:
I must have had tunnel vision or lack of foresight/planning so I did not ask to check it out and do if necessary and kind of glad because when I picked it up I asked and got a $90 quote. It was already $200 for the valve seats and valve edges.
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I guess I was pretty lucky, as the guy I used back then did a 16 valve head and a deck trim for $150.00 cash a number of times on the DOHC litre motors. That was about 8 years ago now though.
 
Just looking at the pictures of the motor case halves and I don’t see any case sealer squeezing out anywhere between the halves. Did you wipe it clean afterwards off the cases?
 
Hmm, the reply with quote didn't work, again. No Honda bond on the clutch side needed, it's part of the sump. I got the idea from Bill Silver's 305 assembly guide, only the left and front and back.
 
ballbearian said:
Hmm, the reply with quote didn't work, again. No Honda bond on the clutch side needed, it's part of the sump. I got the idea from Bill Silver's 305 assembly guide, only the left and front and back.
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When Reply With Quote doesn't work, you can copy the content of the post you want to quote, paste it into your new blank reply before typing what you're going to say and put [ QUOTE ] [ /QUOTE ] (but without the spaces) on either end of the part you want quoted.
 
Cooked up some eye-candy, since this "fix" has gone the full monty. With the token FIAT bolt for my nostalgia's sake. The deck of the cylinder really did need to be sanded, so I was glad I did it.
My CA95 Benly came with a black cylinder and I always liked the contrast so...

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Do I really need to do lapping if the machinist did the seats and valve edges?
 
Wow, a Fiat bolt. That kinda blows the whole Fix It Again Tony thing because bolts are usually pretty reliable.

ballbearian said:
Do I really need to do lapping if the machinist did the seats and valve edges?
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Pretty sure Jim would say you shouldn't lap them.
 
Fabrica Industria Atalia Torino (or close to). I was the dismantler and bottom wrench at an independent shop called Apple Motors in Denver area in '79-80ish. Had a '69 124 Spyder 1438cc, 92hp, undersquare high compression, DOHC, shimmed valve adjustment, front discs, 5spd, cam gates belt. FIAT was first with many things (front wheel drive 128's) on a mass scale, they got a bad wrap from zero service program and training here in the US, so the average mechanic had no clue, but quite advanced design (like Honda).
I always put a FIAT bolt on my bikes to remind me of giving the MGB's a run for their money, 2 SU carbs vs. a mechanical dual throat Weber. Always wanted an Alfa or a Lancia Scorpion (FIAT X19 w/ 2L dual cam) too. Even my prior 850 Spyder was a little screamer.
I guess I needed to reminisce.
 
ballbearian said:
Fabrica Industria Atalia Torino (or close to). I was the dismantler and bottom wrench at an independent shop called Apple Motors in Denver area in '79-80ish. Had a '69 124 Spyder 1438cc, 92hp, undersquare high compression, DOHC, shimmed valve adjustment, front discs, 5spd, cam gates belt. FIAT was first with many things (front wheel drive 128's) on a mass scale, they got a bad wrap from zero service program and training here in the US, so the average mechanic had no clue, but quite advanced design (like Honda).
I always put a FIAT bolt on my bikes to remind me of giving the MGB's a run for their money, 2 SU carbs vs. a mechanical dual throat Weber. Always wanted an Alfa or a Lancia Scorpion (FIAT X19 w/ 2L dual cam) too. Even my prior 850 Spyder was a little screamer.
I guess I needed to reminisce.
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I like it, and I just learned more about a Fiat in this post than I ever have prior.

So clearly you have a stash of Fiat bolts. (y)
 
Drillings/ventings in the intake guides are for what? Oil or gas scavenging? When I blew with compressed air I could feel it coming from the left center stud holes. These are grooves about midway inside the guides, the exhaust guides don't have them.
 
The early engines had vent connections to the intake valve guides, to keep intake vacuum from sucking oil past the valve stems, under high vacuum(closed throttle) conditions. Filtered air was supplied via a connection on the front of the air cleaner. They were eliminated on later engines.
 
mike in idaho said:
The early engines had vent connections to the intake valve guides, to keep intake vacuum from sucking oil past the valve stems, under high vacuum(closed throttle) conditions. Filtered air was supplied via a connection on the front of the air cleaner. They were eliminated on later engines.
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The 1966 CL77 engine has those same vents on each side of the intakes too. My motor just had a Y connected set of hoses that were not connected to anything, with the hose just laying around the removable top plate cover on the motor. The air filters don't have the hose connection nipple either, yet are replacement aftermarket ones that may not be correct.

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If you don't have the proper air cleaners you can plug the hole with a short bolt or connect the fittings together with a piece of hose. I worked on a 160 once that the owner had connected the bowl drain hoses to those fittings, drained almost a gallon of gas/oil mix out of the sump. Good thing it didn't run, else it would have wiped out all the valve gear.
 
Thanks Mike, that makes sense
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Both my heads don't have any hose fittings (like on my CA78) so I was wondering if it vented to the breather top cover or...

When I blocked one end of each guide with my finger and blew compressed air in the other, air and dirty solvent (gas) came up the left center intake side stud hole.
I had some abrasion on an intake valve stem from dirt/grit from that guide groove so I went to clean it out and started overthinking it.

Both these heads had funk in every nook and cranny. I guess the best route would have been to drill out the plug where the original hose nipple went and blow/
clean it out then thread and bolt plug it back up.


Humans have tonsils, wisdom teeth, appendixes that aren't a problem until it is. Hondas have vestigial vent drillings. Must be some universal truth that all have a means of retaining some potentially problematic crap.
 
Could you put an inline fuel filter on the end of the Y just to keep out dirt and small bugs, while still letting some air in?
 
wentwest said:
Could you put an inline fuel filter on the end of the Y just to keep out dirt and small bugs, while still letting some air in?
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You could,but why? Mike's suggestion to just block it off makes the most sense. If Honda discontinued the venting, why maintain it, just another thing to deteriorate and cause a potential problem.
 
Man o man, am I glad for the drain plug access cover. I struggled with the timing chain for an hour trying to figure why it seemed about a half link short. I really thought I had the chain on the crank gear all copasetic but finally flipped it over and pulled the cover to find it was next to but not on the teeth. Those Honda designers are alright.

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Looking good for sure and I like the black barrels as a contrast on the motor. I appreciate little changes to the original design to give it your own look. That trap door on the bottom of the engine is a great thing to have to be able to check out the cam chain and routing etc internally.
You really got the fins and cases nice and clean without the need for vapor honing services. ;)
 
Flyin900 said:
Looking good for sure and I like the black barrels as a contrast on the motor. I appreciate little changes to the original design to give it your own look. That trap door on the bottom of the engine is a great thing to have to be able to check out the cam chain and routing etc internally.
You really got the fins and cases nice and clean without the need for vapor honing services. ;)
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All the CA95's I've seen came with black cylinders and I liked that look, even though it should be semi gloss or almost flat. Steel bristled wire wheels and then a dremel (rotary) tool with fine steel bristles remove most of the corrosion but leave the aluminum a little grey colored. Scotchbrite nylon buffing wheels (also dremel) on the flat areas and nylon bristled abrasive wheels (for the fins) return the white color of the aluminum. Probably about 8-12 hours of my time per motor, as bad as these parts were, I'd guess at least 3-4 hours in a blast cabinet. At $50/hour or more, blasting fees, I figured my time is cheaper and they look good enough for me.
 
Head torque specs are MIA from the FSM. Any suggestions for 160's? Other found specs include 14-18 ft/lbs. for 125-150's, 15.19 for 250's and 13.74-16.63 for 305's. I'm thinking 18, unless somebody says better.
 
I have the FSM spec for the 1968 CL175 just not handy at the moment. I recall it was in the 15-18 ft lb range and will confirm for you tomorrow. Basically the same engine, so the torque spec should be identical too.
 
I looked in our library and found the 175 sloper takes 11.6-15.2 ft/lbs. If you find something different, let me know. Thanks.
 
Blue or Green O rings, is there a difference? I put the blue ones (91301-200-000) in and a Honda head gasket. I torqued to 15lbs. (dry) and I did not use any sealer anywhere (I wasn't sure just where to use any), also flat sanded both the head and the cylinder on a plate glass with 220grit.

I hope I did it all right. Now is the time for 2nd guessing, before I put the motor back in.
 
ballbearian said:
Blue or Green O rings, is there a difference? I put the blue ones (91301-200-000) in and a Honda head gasket. I torqued to 15lbs. (dry) and I did not use any sealer anywhere (I wasn't sure just where to use any), also flat sanded both the head and the cylinder on a plate glass with 220grit.

I hope I did it all right. Now is the time for 2nd guessing, before I put the motor back in.
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Unless the FSM specifies adding sealer at any given point then none is used.
Since you did the surface plate sanding to the head and cylinder they'll be clean and flat, good job.
You should be perfectly good to go.
 
Almost ready to run and ride for sure. Nice and clean with electric start too it seems, or is that the lightening part of the build. It looks like a CB or CM400 Hawk in the background in red. A few of those are owned by a some of our CVMG members locally.
 
Flyin900 said:
Almost ready to run and ride for sure. Nice and clean with electric start too it seems, or is that the lightening part of the build. It looks like a CB or CM400 Hawk in the background in red. A few of those are owned by a some of our CVMG members locally.
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Lol. It's going to get it's starter and starter clutch, stator, L side case, clutch, oil pump and R side case too. I was just running low on elbow grease, so I left it on the light side to mount it.

The Hawk, the brown Benly and the push-rod 90 (C200 not shown) are all giving me the stink eye because they need carb or clutch work too. I get cranky even thinking about the blue Dream and the uppity orange 68 CT90K0 that's pushed into line.

Then there is the back yard. It looks like a homeless tent city with two more under covers and a couple more just under the stars.

I need better discipline and more saddle time too.
 
ballbearian said:
Lol. It's going to get it's starter and starter clutch, stator, L side case, clutch, oil pump and R side case too. I was just running low on elbow grease, so I left it on the light side to mount it.

The Hawk, the brown Benly and the push-rod 90 (C200 not shown) because they need carb or clutch work too. I get cranky even thinking about the blue Dream and the uppity orange 68 CT90K0 that's pushed into line.

Then there is the back yard. It looks like a homeless tent city with two more under covers and a couple more just under the stars.

I need better discipline and more saddle time too.
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"are all giving me the stink eye"

You do make me laugh out loud at times. Keep it up!
 
ballbearian said:
The Hawk, the brown Benly and the push-rod 90 (C200 not shown) are all giving me the stink eye because they need carb or clutch work too. I get cranky even thinking about the blue Dream and the uppity orange 68 CT90K0 that's pushed into line.

Then there is the back yard. It looks like a homeless tent city with two more under covers and a couple more just under the stars.

I need better discipline and more saddle time too.
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Well you get a prize for sure with that many in the corral waiting on your skills. It isn’t a race though and as long as your enjoying it then keep to your own schedule and as time allows. It can take over and push other life things aside, so riding your accomplishments is all part of the fun IMO.

I will be interested to see the finished bike and hopefully on the road at some point. The riding season is almost over up here, yet one last hurrah this weekend with 20 degree Celsius on tap.
 
Me too, Flying900. I'd like to do a start up vid if there is a way besides youtube because I won't give google my cell number. Does our Imgur have that capability?
 
The gasket in place has more filled in areas than the one from the US made kit. It fit so much better and I looked pretty carefully to see if any passeges would be occluded. It was billed as an early type on ebay and was cheap, so...

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Here is the modified clutch six pack of steels and discs with the clutch lever pulled in al the way, adjusted, etc. As you can see there is 2mm of slop, or free play in the pack, I hope it's enough. The disks were soaked in oil for a couple weeks. In 1st gear with clutch pulled, I can turn the rear wheel but can feel the resistance. It grabs good for the kick starter, I peddled it probably 40 times to help prime the motor with oil.

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Modification to the clutch outer was all I did due to lack of lathe, I did not do the recommended 1.5mm cut to the clutch inner. Again, I hope it's enough clearance when hot.
Also ran old stock springs instead of new beefy ones included with the Newfren racing clutch kit. The proof will be in the pudding, I guess. I'm ready for desert soon.

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Fine weather lately, no riding but rattle can action on the remaining parts.
 
Pipes, pegs, pedal, paint, polish done. Even points and plugs good too.

How long does it take to get the oil up to the head? I unplugged the points and removed tappet covers and plugs while running the starter a bunch but no sight of oil in the head yet. I'm chicken to loosen the carefully torqued rear studs to look there.

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It can take awhile to pump the oil up to the head from dry. Pull the plugs to allow the motor to spin easier and do it in short spurts 5 seconds on the starter. Give it a break if it takes longer than 60 seconds and try again later.
It looks like you have the plugs out already :)
 
I haven't checked this thread recently and I just want to say that the bike is looking really great. The "eye candy" and FIAT bolt are nice touches and as AD said earlier, the engine is spotless. Hopefully you get some oil coming out of those open tappet covers soon.
 
It sure does take time to get the oil up to the head. I had to stop for a recharge on the battery and to add more oil. Since the oil level went from max to min, I knew it had to be going somewhere. Finally saw drops on the exhaust adjusters and a drop forming on the bottom of the intake rockers where the shaft goes through.
 
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