ballbearian
Veteran Member
The globe is intact. The glue, or whatever failed. Weird.
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CB160 Blue on White maybe
- Thread starter ballbearian
- Start date
The globe is intact. The glue, or whatever failed. Weird.
Those bulbs get hot, glue is better part of 60 years old. Something has to wear out eventually 
They are not cheap to buy new either these days.
Maybe time for one of your LED conversions on the back bezel.
They are not cheap to buy new either these days.Maybe time for one of your LED conversions on the back bezel.
wentwest
Veteran Member
Most of the time putting new tires on a very careful restoration is considered okay, unless you are building a museum piece that won't be operated on the road. The same "rules" (and there are no rules) should apply to lights.
bilbikek411
Veteran Member
There's a 5 3/4" H4 headlight made in India(Autopal brand)for less than $30 new that's on Ebay and it will adapt to your headlight rim.I used it on my 81' CB125S that had a 6 volt system originally.
I still have my used one because I installed a CB360T headlight to my bike.
I still have my used one because I installed a CB360T headlight to my bike.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
NOS replacement from Beck Arnley (remember them?) for reasonable price on ebay many months ago. Made in Japan, 25-25 watt. No rush to convert the old sealbeam to LED now.
Putting in the new Sparcks moto rectifier/regulator as well.
Putting in the new Sparcks moto rectifier/regulator as well.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I messed up on the oil filter Oring and further as I forgot to put the 6x20mm bolt in the filter cap. Good thing I didn't go further than 190 miles on this first oil change.
I don't know if the Oring got clipped when I put the cover on or if it was just missing a segment and didn't notice.
The cap has a worn groove of about a mm but the bypass valve seems functional. There was definitely a thick film of oil sludge paste in the filter. I don't know what the consequences of my incompetence are but the oil was pretty ugly. No metal in it that I can see. Maybe I need to make the next change fairly soon.
Compression cold is 155 psi on both.
I don't know if the Oring got clipped when I put the cover on or if it was just missing a segment and didn't notice.
The cap has a worn groove of about a mm but the bypass valve seems functional. There was definitely a thick film of oil sludge paste in the filter. I don't know what the consequences of my incompetence are but the oil was pretty ugly. No metal in it that I can see. Maybe I need to make the next change fairly soon.
Compression cold is 155 psi on both.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Another shot of the worn oil filter cap and damaged O ring.
Is this cap too worn to use? It has about 1mm deep grove where the relief valve contacts. I don't want to starve my top end of oil.
Is this cap too worn to use? It has about 1mm deep grove where the relief valve contacts. I don't want to starve my top end of oil.
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IF you are in ANY doubt about the transfer piece effecting a proper seal to that worn cap, replace the cap....
I'll wager you won't ever again "forget" to install the 6mm screw to properly retain the cap....
That groove is the resultant damage from the 190 miles without the securing screw......
Personally, I'd check the cam's left side bearing surface and the matching area of the point base as well....
I'll wager you won't ever again "forget" to install the 6mm screw to properly retain the cap....
That groove is the resultant damage from the 190 miles without the securing screw......
Personally, I'd check the cam's left side bearing surface and the matching area of the point base as well....
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I think I got it in time that the cap still seals the transfer collar, the cam bearings are ok and the point base too.
I was actually almost more worried about the Oring missing a big chunk.
A humbling screw up but I hope you'll win that bet. I can't make you any poorer than me, I obviously can't afford to pay attention!
I was actually almost more worried about the Oring missing a big chunk.
A humbling screw up but I hope you'll win that bet. I can't make you any poorer than me, I obviously can't afford to pay attention!
There's a blast from the past, kinda like Hap Jones, Rocky Cycle and JC Whitney
I feel your mental agony. Remember that I did something similar on my 450 with the improper reassembly of the valve in the cover itself, and that cost me a couple of left exhaust cam bearing covers and the left exhaust cam lobe and follower (total outlay around $300) before I found the problem. :sorry:
ballbearian
Veteran Member
There is no mention or pic in the FSM of the screw but it is in the parts catalogue.
The FSM doesn't particularly inspire confidence in it's engine section.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I'm now questioning the valve clearance spec of 0.03-0.05mm (0.0011-0.002") intake and exhaust. It has been at .004"for both and hasn't changed. I can't remember if I just guessed at this initial setting or if someone recommended it.
The 0.002", or less spec seems pretty tight. Any 160 old hands care to weigh in on this?
The 0.002", or less spec seems pretty tight. Any 160 old hands care to weigh in on this?
The older the FSMs are, the worse the translation was and the level of omissions seems to be worse as well.
I never did a tune-up on a 160 but based on the other twins then I would have thought the correct clearance is .002". According to this owner's manual screenshot it's .004" to .006". I'd go with .004"
mike in idaho
Veteran Member
Honda occasionally had typos in their manuals those days. We used .002" for both intake and exhaust. The little feeler gauge blade, that came in the tool kit, measured .002" thick.
I honestly thought I remembered .002" but was shocked to see the owner's manual said otherwise. And one of the owner's manuals in our library doesn't even have valve adjustments in it at all.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
The bike is a '65 and my manual is a revised in '72 version. IMO, it doesn't have squat on actual engine tuning, specs, procedures but do have many pictures and pages devoted to things like battery plates, solenoid repair, horn construction, and even the chemical process of battery function. A vintage Clymer's tries to make the info more presentable and logically sequential but still falls short of, what I would call good.
I probably went loose, initially, on the valves due to my own seat and face work, to let them bed in. I guess I did ok because there's 155psi for both on compression and they haven't changed much from .004". Maybe the compression will come up with the mileage some. Only 190 miles, so far, but it is getting faster, topped 70mph last outing.
Thanks Mike, will do at .002". I'll just sneek a peek more often as break in proceeds.
I probably went loose, initially, on the valves due to my own seat and face work, to let them bed in. I guess I did ok because there's 155psi for both on compression and they haven't changed much from .004". Maybe the compression will come up with the mileage some. Only 190 miles, so far, but it is getting faster, topped 70mph last outing.
Thanks Mike, will do at .002". I'll just sneek a peek more often as break in proceeds.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
This bike came with a fairly complete tool roll. I do think it is the original, by it's design and the cloth stitched on binding tape around the edge, as well as the actual tools inside. Also the valve clearances were embossed into it.
0.04mm is pretty close to 0.0015" and falls mid-range in the FSM spec, so two of three witnesses agree (FSM, tool roll, Owners manual). Unfortunately, the single feeler gauge was not available for comment.
I wonder how much a tighter spec (.002"vs.004") would improve cam duration and opening?
I think Mike from Idaho's feeler gauge memory is on it.
0.04mm is pretty close to 0.0015" and falls mid-range in the FSM spec, so two of three witnesses agree (FSM, tool roll, Owners manual). Unfortunately, the single feeler gauge was not available for comment.
I wonder how much a tighter spec (.002"vs.004") would improve cam duration and opening?
I think Mike from Idaho's feeler gauge memory is on it.
Nice to find an original tool roll and the bag looks great. To clean the tools up for a brighter finish use some 5% household white vinegar soaking for 10-15 mins though; watch them and wipe every 5 minutes which will etch the surface and put a shine back on them. I wipe them down with ACF50 or equivalent afterwards for some metal protection in the pouch.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
Printing errors seem much more common than embossing errors, so I would take the tool roll to be an authority on the matter, along with Mike in Idaho. On the dohc 450's, the FSM calls for 0.0012" (0.03 mm) and most sets of feeler gauges don't go that tight -- maybe this is the reason for the common use of a 0.002' clearance in the shops?
A couple of years ago I noticed slightly lower compression on the right cylinder of my CB360. One or both of the valve clearances on that side were sloppy (loose) and the compression came up after I corrected the clearances. I'd be curious to know if the difference here would show up on a compression gauge
Yes, Mike's mention reminded me of the little feeler gauge they provided and with the singles it was .05mm. I'd go with .002" on the 160 based on that, and the tool roll is definitely a good indicator you'll be fine at that clearance. As for the 450s, when I was at the shops we used a piece of .0015" feeler stock since .0012" wasn't readily available, and I shaped a curve into the end of it by pulling it across my thumbnail so I could loop it around the camshaft and slip it in between the lobe and follower to pull back and forth for checking the clearance.
A little of the topic but 4 into 1 and maybe others sell these short 3" feeler gauges with a dual end pieces of bent spring metal in a .002 and .003 single unit, plus a .004 and .005 single unit. They were reasonable to buy a few years ago and do wear out if being used frequently.
I just checked 4 into 1 and they are still available, yet have jumped up in price by almost double, yet are worth the cost still because of their angled feeler gauge design is easy to get into weird valve setups on some engines.
I just checked 4 into 1 and they are still available, yet have jumped up in price by almost double, yet are worth the cost still because of their angled feeler gauge design is easy to get into weird valve setups on some engines.
Those would work fine for the other twins, but the DOHC 450/500T need something a little longer to get in between the lobe and follower due to the design.
mike in idaho
Veteran Member
This list gives the range of 0.0011" to0.002" :http://oldmanhonda.com/MC/DataTable.html, I always used the high side figure both intake and exhaust, better idle quality and a slightly thicker oil film being washed up onto the cam lobes. The clearance always tightened up a bit, the first 500 miles, anyway so a bit loose was better as the valves bedded in.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I like the thicker oil film rational.
"Slappy valves are happy valves" is an expression my old school shop monkey friend says.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I still have my BluePoint tools (pre-SnapOn) set with a .0015" in it.
Actually, BluePoint was concurrent with Snap-On, during the '80s while I worked for the City of Tampa I bought plenty of Snap-On stuff along with more than a few BluePoint tools from the same mobile dealer, including a BluePoint adjustable wrench that I still have. Why? Because it was the most precise adjustable I'd ever held in my hands, and I worked on Harleys then too (lots of really big nuts and bolts, like the bolt/nut that held the primary drive sprocket to the crankshaft, 1.5" IIRC).
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I have a 4" adjustable Blue point that works great on tappets and spoke nipples, in a pinch.
Maybe I was thinking of Plomb (with a triangle for the o) Tools. I have a small 3/8 drive set from my Grandfather.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Those 4into 1 feelers are way too stubby for me (only about 1/2") but i did find these in .04mm (.0015").
HARFINGTON 3pcs Single Blade Feeler Gauge (0.04mm) Thickness 100mm Length Stainless Steel Gauge Metric Gap Measuring Tool for Measurement: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Before I started it up to do a timing light check, I shoved a couple stainless pot scrubbers up the megaphones, 1 up about a foot deep and lightly packed in the narrow of the pipe, the other just at the reverse cone against the jam T bolt that holds the outside baffle plate in place. It's still on the loud side but maybe Charles won't be putting in his ear plugs anymore.
We'll see if they stay in place after a good ride. If I need to make some kind of shish-kabob to hold it further up, then I will.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
My baffle balls wouldn't stay up in the megaphones so I made these steel wire holders. The looped end should hold the first and furthest ball and the rear ball will help keep everything from rattling. I hope.
Ingenious idea, hopefully it will work out. Well, not out of the muffler.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
We'll see. Reminds me of a dog we had that ate stuff that fell off the Christmas tree, it would run around with tinsel hanging out it's ****.
It is really quieter now with 3 in each side. Haven't rode it yet though. If it all seems good then I can start focusing on carbs and jetting. Maybe even see if the original Kehins can be used, instead of the OEMSTD copies.
It is really quieter now with 3 in each side. Haven't rode it yet though. If it all seems good then I can start focusing on carbs and jetting. Maybe even see if the original Kehins can be used, instead of the OEMSTD copies.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Potscrubber baffles worked great on a short (15 mile) ride at 60mph. Very pleased the additional backpressure seemed to cure the midrange stumbles too. At least I don't have to call it tinsel butt, the baffle balls don't seem to have moved and the, now acceptable, loudness did not change.
bilbikek411
Veteran Member
Nice mods to quiet your mufflers.
I'm on a quest to have high-flow mufflers which don't cause much noise pollution.
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ballbearian
Veteran Member
The overall ridability is greatly improved and it will be good for sneaking in a late night ride (when it's cooler) without raising the dead.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
Very cool. It will be interesting to see how they hold up. I ran 12" mufflers on my CB360 for a while. At first I thought they sounded cool, later they just sounded loud. I repacked the baffles a few times and it would burn up the insulating material in short order. I hope your material holds up well.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
I wouldn't even bother with fiberglass, that why stainless steel sounded possible. They will get plugged up too after awhile but they're cheap to replace every few hundred miles, if they need it.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Contemplating a custom sidestand, using a Dream footpeg bar that is no good for a Dream but if I cut it off from the bar and keep the vertical plate it may be able to bolt on the frame (with some reinforcement) over the cross tube for the brake pedal (the black hole would have a long thru bolt) and the passenger peg bracket boss and the centerstand pivot. I saw a vintage aftermarket unit that was very similar in location and design, which gave me the idea.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Add a kickstand project continues (heart attack be damned). Drilled. test fitted, 1/2" carriage bolt as main attachment point. A sleeve of 3/4" pipe will also be clamped by the passenger footgeg bracket boss. Just need to elongated holes a bit to achieve proper forward angle to ensure bike won't roll forward off the pivot point.
Now these crusty parts will soak in my 10 month old 5 gallon Deox-C batch to later paint. The spring is surely a goner, so another will need found.
Sparky, the dog wants to piss on the stubborn muffler that caused my crisis. I can't blame him.
Also, a good opportunity to refine the potscrubber baffle packing. It really was too tight in the narrow end the megaphone cone. I may just shorten the wire positioning bracket I made by 2-3 inches and use only 2 scrubbers instead of 3. The bike was quiet and ran great but slightly less restriction may be the happy balance.
Now these crusty parts will soak in my 10 month old 5 gallon Deox-C batch to later paint. The spring is surely a goner, so another will need found.
Sparky, the dog wants to piss on the stubborn muffler that caused my crisis. I can't blame him.
Also, a good opportunity to refine the potscrubber baffle packing. It really was too tight in the narrow end the megaphone cone. I may just shorten the wire positioning bracket I made by 2-3 inches and use only 2 scrubbers instead of 3. The bike was quiet and ran great but slightly less restriction may be the happy balance.
I'm glad you're feeling better, just don't let male garage bravado overload your older self's physical ability to bounce back in a hurry. Gotta play the long game for a multitude of reasons.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Sage wisdom there.
I will cogitate (that's what codgers do) more now and reset my grunt meter alarm for a lower threshold. I promise.
wentwest
Veteran Member
It's a delicate balance. Healing is certainly faster when there's some joy in your days.
Yes, and a modest bit of exercise to keep the metabolism up.
kbongos
Veteran Member
Enjoy everything in moderation. Variety is the spice of life. Your dog is right about those mufflers. And that spring looks fine.
ausman1000
Veteran Member
Spokes
Veteran Member
Keep an eye on those meds until you understand them. The med cocktail I was on dimmed my view of life. Be sure to report out if you feel even a touch of hopelessness.
Better days ahead!
Better days ahead!
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Will do. The beta blockers kind of lower one's redline but give a stronger mid range. The blood thinners mean watch out for bruises and expect cuts to leak longer. No biggie, I think I'll still go the distance even if I'm back of the pack.
wentwest
Veteran Member
That's my experience. The blood thinners have not caused any great change in my bleed times. The cardiologists are trying to talk me out of riding because of the worry about hemorrhaging after a crash, but I figure that's really my decision and their comments are definitely CYA material. The beta blockers may well make it harder to get your heart pounding, but after a few weeks while I was expecting to explode I haven't really noticed any particular loss of stamina.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
Some good, uplifting (to me) truth.
Talking to John Knox (outobie) when I bought his bike, about motor prep even for his race units, he said, " I'm not really a fat cam guy and prefer the midrange oomph for coming out of corners".
So maybe I should add that to my signature.
Not really a fat cam dude anymore and I never did (or will) do the ton.
ballbearian
Veteran Member
When I pulled out the potscrubbers and the wire retainer I had made to hold them in, I was surprised by how tightly compressed the forward one was. I thought maybe some riding would blow it back and loosen it but no, it really was quite restrictive. The length of the wire retainer had the first scrubber at the joint of the straight part of the pipe to beginning of the taper. The narrowest place.
It was much quieter (almost normal) than it was with basically totally open megaphones, even with the perforated end cap. Also, the backpressure removed the midrange flatness and stumble, which was a sign that some backpressure was definitely needed.
I think a happy medium may be a bit further back, for the first scrubber, in the taper and not so tight. It also may need some carb jetting/work on the stock OEMStd aftermarket clone carbs fitted by the PO and refitted after my engine rebuild. Or attempt to rebuild the original carbs that were dis-assembled and in a box with the bike purchase.
I shortened the wire retainer by a couple of inches and instead of stuffing it in the center wire loop but left around the wire, more like a doughnut with a center that is a thinner area in the scrubber mesh. The rear has a much looser doughnut and only one scrubber instead of two just side by side. I don't think the rear scrubbers even came into play due to the significant forward restriction.
I know there was leakage at the header to pipes connection. I wonder if it would not have even run if not. I had to fix that connection due to the poor clamping ears and mostly to the brass ridge, on the end of the header, that I had failed to completely remove from the original baffle that was brazed on to the header. That brass ridge caused a deformation to the pipe, when clamped, which made removal a real struggle, even a heart attack.
So, hopefully, fix a problem, make some design changes, stay on my meds and get out and test ride.
The sidestand mod is coming along too.
It was much quieter (almost normal) than it was with basically totally open megaphones, even with the perforated end cap. Also, the backpressure removed the midrange flatness and stumble, which was a sign that some backpressure was definitely needed.
I think a happy medium may be a bit further back, for the first scrubber, in the taper and not so tight. It also may need some carb jetting/work on the stock OEMStd aftermarket clone carbs fitted by the PO and refitted after my engine rebuild. Or attempt to rebuild the original carbs that were dis-assembled and in a box with the bike purchase.
I shortened the wire retainer by a couple of inches and instead of stuffing it in the center wire loop but left around the wire, more like a doughnut with a center that is a thinner area in the scrubber mesh. The rear has a much looser doughnut and only one scrubber instead of two just side by side. I don't think the rear scrubbers even came into play due to the significant forward restriction.
I know there was leakage at the header to pipes connection. I wonder if it would not have even run if not. I had to fix that connection due to the poor clamping ears and mostly to the brass ridge, on the end of the header, that I had failed to completely remove from the original baffle that was brazed on to the header. That brass ridge caused a deformation to the pipe, when clamped, which made removal a real struggle, even a heart attack.
So, hopefully, fix a problem, make some design changes, stay on my meds and get out and test ride.
The sidestand mod is coming along too.