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SL350 K1 kickstart

The_Rooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Total Posts
184
Total likes
1
Location
Zeeland, MI, USA
I think I’m screwed…

The bike started fine and I fixed all the leaks and installed the mufflers.

I went to start it and after a few kicks the kick start just goes right to the ground. The gear might catch a bit at times but overall nothing… am I looking at a complete tear down?


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The inside gear #1 is a possibility which does mean splitting the case but that operation doesn't mean a complete tear down. The lower case can be removed without touching the head or cylinders.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
The inside gear #1 is a possibility which does mean splitting the case but that operation doesn't mean a complete tear down. The lower case can be removed without touching the head or cylinders.
Click to expand...

Ok. Well it looks like i will be pulling off the covers. Disappointing but I guess that’s the way it goes


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And that gear is pricey and really hard to find... someone posted at the other forum some time back that they made the gears at a cost of about $230 IIRC, but I can't find the post over there right now because the site is down for maintenance
 
ancientdad said:
And that gear is pricey and really hard to find... someone posted at the other forum some time back that they made the gears at a cost of about $230 IIRC, but I can't find the post over there right now because the site is down for maintenance
Click to expand...

I see some on David Silver spares for $39. Says the have them. Hope it’s true


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LongDistanceRider said:
The inside gear #1 is a possibility which does mean splitting the case but that operation doesn't mean a complete tear down. The lower case can be removed without touching the head or cylinders.
Click to expand...

Do I need to drain the oil to pull the right cover?


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They have #1 and #3 but no #2 which has a history of failure. I may have the last new one in existence but I'm using it to try and find someone who can duplicate it properly, last quote was over $500 each.
 
I just reached out to the guy over at the other forum to see if he's still selling the gear.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
They have #1 and #3 but no #2 which has a history of failure. I may have the last new one in existence but I'm using it to try and find someone who can duplicate it properly, last quote was over $500 each.
Click to expand...

Wow… ok this could be bad then… tearing it down now to take a look


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Ok have a look at this. They look ok to me but I have questions.

Are the gears supposed to be this loose on the spindles? They are definitely a lot of slop when they sit on the shafts.

Any input or ideas on what is going on? Hopeful it is just an assembly error on my part.

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I think I have the answer. The washer and the circlip in the photo below were not installed. Another rookie mistake by me and hopefully is the reason for my problems.

I am still curious about how sloppy these two gears are on the shafts. Is that normal?

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The idler is supposed to have a bronze bushing in it so there's maybe .001" clearance, probably Oilite Bronze. Looks like your bushing is worn away. This can be fixed by a machine shop so replacement isn't needed. How is the shaft?
 
LongDistanceRider said:
The idler is supposed to have a bronze bushing in it so there's maybe .001" clearance, probably Oilite Bronze. Looks like your bushing is worn away. This can be fixed by a machine shop so replacement isn't needed. How is the shaft?
Click to expand...

A bushing? Interesting. How would I let a machine shop what size bushing to install? Would it be on both gears?

The shafts look ok to me. What do you think?

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LongDistanceRider said:
New gear bushing measures at .787". the gear that fits the clutch, #3, doesn't appear to have bushing in the picture on CMSNL so that should be ok.
Click to expand...

Ok my apologies but I still am not clear. Are you saying I don’t need a bushing? Even with all the slop on the shaft?

Edit: sorry I misread. The #3 doesn’t need a bushing but the #2 would. Would most machine shops be able to do this type of job?

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For the bushing size I went out to the garage and measured what is may be the last new idler gear in existence.
I'm relying on the photo posted on CMSNL for no bushing on the #3 gear, click the posted link to see it.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
For the bushing size I went out to the garage and measured what is may be the last new idler gear in existence.
I'm relying on the photo posted on CMSNL for no bushing on the #3 gear, click the posted link to see it.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that! I am grateful and have a couple shops lined up for a call tomorrow. Wish me luck. Is that bushing just pressed in? Glued?


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Hi all,
I did get a response from ‘BikeBarn’ on the other forum. Was told they could make the idler gear….I gather that each gear is specially made (ie they don’t have them ‘on the shelf’). Makes sense that any such custom built gear is going to be costly.
Cheers
Mike
 
Mikepacific60 said:
Hi all,
I did get a response from ‘BikeBarn’ on the other forum. Was told they could make the idler gear….I gather that each gear is specially made (ie they don’t have them ‘on the shelf’). Makes sense that any such custom built gear is going to be costly.
Cheers
Mike
Click to expand...

Please share the contact info for that guy. I sent him a PM over at the other forum and haven't heard back from him yet, it would be good to have an alternative to searching for a good used gear until Jim manages to find someone who can make the gears for us for a somewhat reasonable price.
 
ancientdad said:
Please share the contact info for that guy. I sent him a PM over at the other forum and haven't heard back from him yet, it would be good to have an alternative to searching for a good used gear until Jim manages to find someone who can make the gears for us for a somewhat reasonable price.
Click to expand...

Up to now I have had good success tracking down replacement parts for a reasonable price but this one just doesn’t exist! I am very surprised by this but it makes sense if this part had a high failure rate. I am grateful I can hopefully install a bushing and be back up and running but would love to see a reasonable replacement at some point.


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The_Rooster said:
Up to now I have had good success tracking down replacement parts for a reasonable price but this one just doesn’t exist! I am very surprised by this but it makes sense if this part had a high failure rate. I am grateful I can hopefully install a bushing and be back up and running but would love to see a reasonable replacement at some point.


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Click to expand...

Well, I don't know that "reasonable" will ever be applied to parts like this that are NLA and in really short supply, but just having something available would at least help... as long as it doesn't require a second mortgage
 
Mikepacific60 said:
Sorry Ancientdad,
I didn’t get a direct contact for him…he responded to my PM on the other forum.
Cheers
Mike
Click to expand...

Since he has already responded to you there, could you PM him again and ask for it so others here can inquire with him? Hopefully he'll answer me but I noticed he mentioned not checking back for a while... seems odd for someone who wants to sell something that they must know is very hard to find.
 
So this whole situation intrigues me. I have an appointment with a local machine shop to talk about installing a bushing on the gear I have and to see if they are able to manufacture these as well.

The gear has holes in it I am assuming to trim weight but seems to be why it fails as well. Would those need to be there on a manufactured replacement? I am thinking not but let me know if I am wrong.

If I get any updates I will fill you in.
 
You have the early idler gear, the later version on the K2 is solid. The problem with getting the gear done is the heat treating, yeah that gear is heat treated.
 
I see the parts are available, at the cmsnl.com website, pretty scary prices.
Edit; I was wrong, looks like gear #2 is NLA after all.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
New gear bushing measures at .787". the gear that fits the clutch, #3, doesn't appear to have bushing in the picture on CMSNL so that should be ok.
Click to expand...

Hate to ask but do you happen to be able to tell the exact ID and OD measurements of the bushing? I have a CNC shop asking about it and quoting me $150 to make one. Does that seem reasonable or about what to expect?
 
I would bore the gear to accept a 15/16" OD blank bronze bushing, press it into the gear,then bore the ID to suit the shaft diameter. Maybe 30 minutes of shop time.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
My exact thoughts, McMaster-Carr shows the bushing at @$1.25 each.
Click to expand...

That would seem to be the most cost effective route. It would make me a bit nervous with just the one gear to work with but I suppose its a risk that would have to be taken. The $150 for a custom bushing just seemed way too steep to me.
 
Hi all
I’ve sent a follow-up PM to BikeBarn on the other forum….if/when responds with his contact details I’ll post them here.
Cheers
Mike
 
Yeah, I'm still waiting for him to respond to me there as well. Basically letting him know he could sell a few...
 
LongDistanceRider said:
This one should do, it'll need to be cut/machined to fit but plenty of excess material to work with.
View attachment 9495
Click to expand...

Ok thanks. Last question I promise.

I’m have some cheepo digital calipers but no micrometer yet. I measure the shaft at 20mm. What do you think the ID of the bushing be bored out to? How many hundredths of clearance would be needed? I wouldn’t assume it would be a real tight fit.


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I've had 3 of the cheap digital Vernier's and they all hit the garbage can after a few uses. My Brown & Sharpe that I've used for the last 40 years is always trustworthy but for critical measurements like the shaft I would be using a micrometer.
Since it's on a oil pressure feed line I would say .001" clearance but no more than .002". This tight of clearance is why the shaft measurement needs to be really accurate, close doesn't work.
Too much clearance will cause an oil pressure drop and the gear to wobble slightly causing tooth wear.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
I've had 3 of the cheap digital Vernier's and they all hit the garbage can after a few uses. My Brown & Sharpe that I've used for the last 40 years is always trustworthy but for critical measurements like the shaft I would be using a micrometer.
Since it's on a oil pressure feed line I would say .001" clearance but no more than .002". This tight of clearance is why the shaft measurement needs to be really accurate, close doesn't work.
Too much clearance will cause an oil pressure drop and the gear to wobble slightly causing tooth wear.
Click to expand...

Ok. We are talking .001 -.002 of an inch, correct ?


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I have the brass bearing inserts and measured the shaft with a micrometer and am getting a measurement of .789 inches. With that measurement should I be shooting for an ID of .791 on the insert?

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Update…

I got a bit better set of calipers to check the shaft diameter again because the micrometer I was I’m using didn’t fit too well in the case and I suspected it wasn’t exactly straight. This time came up with a measurement of .786, which would put my ID target at .788. That makes more sense in line with earlier posts.

Also found a machine shop that would press in a solid bronze blank and then mill the ID out to spec for $75. So far that seems to be the best option. I have the bronze bearing sleeves but they felt it was easier to go that route.


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