Dave's '71 CB450 Project

[davbib]

Hello fellow enthusiasts,

I was encouraged to start a thread to share the work I'm doing on my '71 CB450 project. I also plan on using this thread as a journal that I can refer back to and, hopefully, with your help get my questions answered.

About me. I started riding motorcycles around 13 (My mom had an automatic Yamaha Chappy that she used to ride to try and keep up with my step dad on his Yamaha 500 and I would ride around the yard, circling the house on that). I worked as a busboy under the table and as a paperboy so I could save up for a ‘real’ bike of my own. I ended up with a 77 KE100 that I sold at age 16 so I could buy a car. Soon after I was riding a KZ440. Fast forward to today and I have four bikes in my garage. 1) A CRF450 so that I can ride the BLM land about a half mile from my house. 2) A Honda VTX1300 that I use to take trips on. I used to like to take a week off from work and ride a 2000 mile circle always trying a different path. 3) An FZ09 that I used to use primarily as a commuter when I had to go into work. 4) A ZX10R when I feel like going fast. I have always wanted to fix up an old bike, but work always kept me pretty busy so the only wrenching time I really had was kept keeping those bikes properly maintained. I’m approaching retirement so now is the time (64 days and counting).

I already posted this picture on my introduction post, but here it is again so you can see where I started. It’s a ’71 CB450. The frame was already cut by a PO, so I won’t be going after a factory restoration. I’m not 100% sure of what I’ll finally end up with as right now I’m focused on the tasks ahead of me…tearing it down to the frame as I’m planning on getting that powder coated.

My gas tank has been bathing in vinegar for four days and will come out this afternoon. If it’s not to my satisfaction, I’ll go the electrolysis route. I don’t have a standard charger, so I’ll need to put my SUV on a battery tender and jumper cables from there to the tank.

Pictures of the starting position, current position, tank, rust in tank, hardware in tank, and my workbench. I wasn't able to embed them in the post.

Next up, I’ll be removing the pipes. Next post will be when the engine is ready to come out of the frame. I’ll need to get it up on my bench somehow.

Here are the thoughts that crossed my mind yesterday. Feel free to share your insight on this:

1. I bought a set of JIS impact driver bits thinking I’d have some pretty nasty screws to get off the bike after 50 years. What I’m finding is the opposite. Many of the fasteners are torqued barely past finger tight. Is this common?
2. I’m planning on having all the aluminum parts vapor blasted. Given that, do others clean up their aluminum parts as they are removed? I’m bagging and tagging every part I removed and putting them in boxes. Even if a fastener is toast, nothing will leave my garage until the bike is back on the road and I’m 100% certain I no longer need what remained. That will be trashed or sold if it has any life left over whatsoever.
3. When I removed the left side foot peg, I did so by removed a socket bolt on the bottom that looked like it secured in a screw that was welded on to the top side. Is that stock?

 

[ancientdad]

I bought a set of JIS impact driver bits thinking I’d have some pretty nasty screws to get off the bike after 50 years. What I’m finding is the opposite. Many of the fasteners are torqued barely past finger tight. Is this common?

It's only common to those bikes that jackleg mechanics have worked on. Yes, they do vibrate, but they don't generally work loose fasteners if put together properly.

I’m planning on having all the aluminum parts vapor blasted. Given that, do others clean up their aluminum parts as they are removed? I’m bagging and tagging every part I removed and putting them in boxes. Even if a fastener is toast, nothing will leave my garage until the bike is back on the road and I’m 100% certain I no longer need what remained. That will be trashed or sold if it has any life left over whatsoever.

I've never spent any money having parts blasted so I can't comment on that part, I usually wash my parts in my cheapie HF wash tank filled with solvent bought from Tractor Supply (5 gallon tin) and if anything needs to be cleaned up further, as in polished or painted, I do it afterward.

When I removed the left side foot peg, I did so by removed a socket bolt on the bottom that looked like it secured in a screw that was welded on to the top side. Is that stock?

Doesn't sound right by the description, pictures always help.

 

[davbib]

I said footpeg. I meant exhaust clamp by the footpeg.

 

[stl360+450]

I said footpeg. I meant exhaust clamp by the footpeg.

The clamp appears to be factory, the bolt not so much. Probably wanted a longer bolt to make it easier to get a nut on it.

 

[davbib]

I've never spent any money having parts blasted so I can't comment on that part, I usually wash my parts in my cheapie HF wash tank filled with solvent bought from Tractor Supply (5 gallon tin) and if anything needs to be cleaned up further, as in polished or painted, I do it afterward.

i thought about that, just running out of space in my garage. I clean small parts in a pickle jar with simple green. I need to up my game.

 

[Cycleranger]

Howdy! You have a very clean garage.

 

[wentwest]

When I took the engine out of the frame of my 450 we put a small diameter steel pipe across the head, under the cast bridging. You have to take out the spark plugs for it to fit. That pipe gives you a good solid handle to lift it up to clear the frame rail at the base and then rotate the engine out. You have to slide the pipe through pretty far to the left to get the right end past the frame, then reach over and finish the job. It helps to have a raised surface to put the engine on once it's out. I pulled every quart paint can I had in the garage, set them all together and laid a piece of wood shelf material on top. The height was pretty good.

A two person job in my world. That engine is heavy.

 

[davbib]

When I took the engine out of the frame of my 450 we put a small diameter steel pipe across the head, under the cast bridging. You have to take out the spark plugs for it to fit. That pipe gives you a good solid handle to lift it up to clear the frame rail at the base and then rotate the engine out. You have to slide the pipe through pretty far to the left to get the right end past the frame, then reach over and finish the job. It helps to have a raised surface to put the engine on once it's out. I pulled every quart paint can I had in the garage, set them all together and laid a piece of wood shelf material on top. The height was pretty good.

A two person job in my world. That engine is heavy.

good idea. Did you take any pics by chance?

 

[ancientdad]

good idea. Did you take any pics by chance?

Slide the bar through this area of the head, left to right, after removing the spark plugs. It's a stout casting and will support the entire engine's weight to help get it out of the frame. The engine weighs around 150-160 lbs so most of us need help lifting it to the bench once out of the frame

 

[davbib]

Slide the bar through this area of the head, left to right, after removing the spark plugs. It's a stout casting and will support the entire engine's weight to help get it out of the frame. The engine weighs around 150-160 lbs so most of us need help lifting it to the bench once out of the frame

View attachment 12765

Got it. Makes sense, thanks.

 

[12ozPBR]

I’m planning on having all the aluminum parts vapor blasted. Given that, do others clean up their aluminum parts as they are removed?

You will save yourself money if you clean the majority of oil and grease off your parts before taking them to be professionally vapor blasted. Most companies want to keep their blast media free of oil and grease. They will pre-clean your parts for you but that will most likely be at their hourly shop rate. Of course the simple thing would be to call the blast business you might use and enquire with them. At the same time it may be good to ask if your parts will be thoroughly rinsed and ready to use when you get them back. This is especially critical if getting the disassembled engine cases blasted. Another question would be if they use or recommend any coating for parts after vapor blasting to help preserve the freshly blasted look.

 

[davbib]

You will save yourself money if you clean the majority of oil and grease off your parts before taking them to be professionally vapor blasted. Most companies want to keep their blast media free of oil and grease. They will pre-clean your parts for you but that will most likely be at their hourly shop rate. Of course the simple thing would be to call the blast business you might use and enquire with them. At the same time it may be good to ask if your parts will be thoroughly rinsed and ready to use when you get them back. This is especially critical if getting the disassembled engine cases blasted. Another question would be if they use or recommend any coating for parts after vapor blasting to help preserve the freshly blasted look.

thanks for the tips!

 

[davbib]

Well, too a little longer than I thought to strip things down, but I’ve been lurking here and learning a few things about the bike. Here is where things stand right now:






last thing before the engine comes out is the brake pedal, which may or may not be bent. More on that later. Getting it or is challenging. I read a few posts on this and I thought the pin that runs through the center stand exited via the left side, but I’m wondering if it had been previously been removed and reinstalled backwards. Hoping someone here can help confirm. Here are a couple pics. From the right side:



From the left:



Both pinch bolts have been removed, but pounding a block of wood on the left side did nothing.

 

[stl360+450]

I think the pin should come out on the right side, i.e., the same side as the pedal. The parts fiche (below) also shows a cotter pin on the left side.

 

[davbib]

I think the pin should come out on the right side, i.e., the same side as the pedal. The parts fiche (below) also shows a cotter pin on the left side.

View attachment 12953

no cotter pin on mine, but I do see those holes now.

 

[stl360+450]

Have you tried penetrating oil? Also, I've pulled my motor without removing the brake pedal. You could work on removing the pedal after the engine is out.

 

[davbib]

Have you tried penetrating oil? Also, I've pulled my motor without removing the brake pedal. You could work on removing the pedal after the engine is out.

Thanks. I’ll try some penetrating oil tomorrow. I hadn’t thought of taking the engine out first, but that’s a good idea. I suspect it’s bent and catching a bit. I will see if I can rotate it carefully.

not sure why I thought it was on wrong after revisiting the parts drawing.

 

[wentwest]

It's probably a bad idea, but I find a socket with an outside diameter just a bit smaller than the pin, put on a nice long extension, and the bang on it with a rubber mallet. If it needs "convincing" a 4 pound hand sledge hammer is step two. When you get the pin out the center stand will want to pivot on the extension so it will be stuck in there. You have to remove the spring at some point and that's really hard. I'd try rotating the stand to the place where the spring is the longest and the jam pennies or dimes into the spaces between the coils, as many as you can. You can use washers, too. Then rotate the stand to a place where the spring is not being pulled quite so hard and see if you can get it off. (On my CB450 someone put the pin in from the left years ago. It makes taking off the brake pedal easy, but there's really nothing to retain the pedal.

There used to be a common tool called a drum brake spring remover but you'll have to search for one now because no one has drum brakes. Maybe at a truck shop?

 

[davbib]

It's probably a bad idea, but I find a socket with an outside diameter just a bit smaller than the pin, put on a nice long extension, and the bang on it with a rubber mallet. If it needs "convincing" a 4 pound hand sledge hammer is step two. When you get the pin out the center stand will want to pivot on the extension so it will be stuck in there. You have to remove the spring at some point and that's really hard. I'd try rotating the stand to the place where the spring is the longest and the jam pennies or dimes into the spaces between the coils, as many as you can. You can use washers, too. Then rotate the stand to a place where the spring is not being pulled quite so hard and see if you can get it off. (On my CB450 someone put the pin in from the left years ago. It makes taking off the brake pedal easy, but there's really nothing to retain the pedal.

There used to be a common tool called a drum brake spring remover but you'll have to search for one now because no one has drum brakes. Maybe at a truck shop?

I do try to be gentle with the old girl. I was going to try a spring with a handle on it I got for my dirt bike. I think that should work. I’m gonna see if I can finish up work early and try again tomorrow.

 

[ancientdad]

The engine comes out the left side fo the frame so pull the engine first. The centerstand pivot tube that holds the brake pedal is indeed in correctly. They either get rusty or slightly bent (PO too violent while putting the bike on the centerstand) which makes them difficult to remove, and unfortunately they're soft metal which will easily bend or mushroom when trying to drive it out. Also, since the bolts are out of the pivot tube clamps attached to the frame, try to spread the clamps apart a little if you can. As mentioned above, the easiest way to remove the centerstand spring is the pennies trick, spread the individual coils apart and put pennies in between until the length grows enough that you can get the spring unhooked. It might be more difficult to do on the bike, but those who have done it before installing the spring say it made things a lot easier.

 

[davbib]

I finally found a neighbor walking by to help me grab the opposite end of my 3/4" pipe to get the engine out of the frame. It wasn't bad at all. I used my motorcycle lift with some 2X4s to raise it up a bit and wiggled the top by the frame before lifting. Put it on the padded ground, then moved it on to the lift with a 15" X 15" section of particle board in lifted it up as far as it would go to ease the move to the workbench top. The brake pedal is still on so I'll get back to that this weekend. I'll also be taking the wheels off, etc and getting what's left into parts.

As suggested, I read the engine disassembly section of the service manual. Hard to make out those B&W pictures and videos are a lot easier to watch but I do remember a caution about the common motor one. Here are my questions for today:

1. What part of that video is what I should NOT be doing?
2. I'll definitely be swapping out the piston rings, but what else should I definitely do while I have the engine apart?

 

[ancientdad]

It's really just the proper order of disassembly. Many videos show people prying things apart and you don't want to cause damage to components that may well be serviceable.

Stand the engine upright, block it or bolt it to something at the motor mount holes to keep it stable, then take the valve covers (large covers with 8 bolts in each) and alternator rotor cover (the 3 screw cover) off. Turn the engine over with the 14mm headed bolt on the rotor in the direction of rotation (arrow on the rotor) while watching the cam chain for the master link, it will look different than the other links (but it does not have a clip, it's either staked or has a pressed-on side plate). Break the chain at the master link by either using a chain breaking tool to press the link apart, or by grinding the pins down flush with the side plate so the plate comes off. Then, while holding both sides of the chain against the cam sprocket it's sitting on, remove the master link and immediately slip a zip tie through each end of the chain so you have something to grab once you let the chain go, longer skinny zip ties are better. DO NOT remove the JIS screws in the cam bearings now (or before this step), you want to remove the head as one piece.

Remove the (8) 17mm sized nuts on the cylinder studs on top of the head along with the washers (2 of them will be copper) and then lift the head off the cylinders, wiggling the cam chain along the way to get it out from the head. The head is the unusual part of this engine, everything else is basic Honda.

Take and post pictures of all these steps along the way so we can see the progress. Get that far and we'll talk about disassembling the head.

Again, inspecting all the parts will tell you what else you'll need to buy.

 

[stl360+450]

1. What part of that video is what I should NOT be doing?
2. I'll definitely be swapping out the piston rings, but what else should I definitely do while I have the engine apart?

The FSM should be the main guide for the disassembly and assembly sequences as well as the specs for usable parts, torques, etc. It is nice to have a video reference sometimes, but I guess the advice is to avoid following videos blindly without consulting the FSM as you work on your own machine.

Did you happen to get compression measurements before you pulled the motor? The health of the motor should dictate the work required. If you're definitely taking apart the motor, you'll want a full gasket kit. Other needs will depend on what you find inside.

 

[davbib]

Did you happen to get compression measurements before you pulled the motor?

unfortunately no, I did not.

 

[davbib]

Pics to come. Thanks Tom.

 

[wentwest]

I like to secure something heavy and bulky to each end of a cam chain. Like AD said, you should run a zip tie through the end link and then set it in a big loop, then I'd do something like use a second zip tie to run a loop through the first zip tie and also through something nice and bulky and heavy. Watching the chain disappear into the crankcase is a very bad feeling. When you have to slide the chain out of the head I try to lift the head off the cylinders some so you can get a grip on the chain between the head and the cylinders, then run another zip tie through the chain there, another loop and then move the weight from the first loop to the next loop. Three hands helps a lot.

 

[ancientdad]

The truth is, as long as you use the longer zip ties (skinny ones close to a foot long) you can just drop the chain down in the crankcase, the zip ties are long enough that they stick up out of the bottom end anyway so you can always retrieve the chain. I've even dropped the chain into the bottom end while working on the exhaust camshaft with the engine in the frame AFTER removing the zip ties (I was about to connect the chain at the intake side). I was able to retrieve it with the help of an inspection camera and a Dollar store "grabber", so don't worry about it too much.



If you feel like going through my 450 build thread recap here you'll get to see lots of pictures of the engine apart, or you could go to the other forum where the entire (sometimes painful) process was documented.

 

[davbib]

Take and post pictures of all these steps along the way[/I] so we can see the progress.

Here is what I got to today.



I should have paid more attention to the bolt sizes when removing the exhaust valve cover. The longest is a rogue bolt. Can you tell me what’s correct?



There was a metal plate when I took the cover off. There was a gasket on the engine side, but metal to metal on the cover side. I don’t recall seeing this plate in a video I watched.




I paid more more attention when I took off the intake cover. I noticed the two on the far right side of the cover as I face it on the bench were shorter than the others. Is that correct?



I don’t much care for the looks of the inside of this cover



I found the master link



And ground it down.



I’ll pop it out tomorrow. Ran out of time today and wanted to make sure I didn’t rush and was careful.

 

[stl360+450]

According to the parts fiche for a 1971 CB450, all of the 6mm bolts on the intake cover should be 28mm long, while those on the exhaust cover should be 32mm. If you use shorter bolts, they will not engage as many threads and you risk stripping threads.

Looking at the parts fiche, it would make more sense for that metal plate to be on the intake side, but it sounds like it was on the exhaust side. Is that correct? In any case, I expect Tom (ancientdad) will be able to sort that out.

I believe those "cracks" are just imperfections in the casting and not anything to worry about, despite not looking so nice.

 

[davbib]

According to the parts fiche for a 1971 CB450, all of the 6mm bolts on the intake cover should be 28mm long, while those on the exhaust cover should be 32mm. If you use shorter bolts, they will not engage as many threads and you risk stripping threads.

*** Thanks, I’m assuming you mean 8 bolts.

Looking at the parts fiche, it would make more sense for that metal plate to be on the intake side, but it sounds like it was on the exhaust side. Is that correct? In any case, I expect Tom (ancientdad) will be able to sort that out.

*** My mistake. Intake. I was focusing on the bolts I guess.

I believe those "cracks" are just imperfections in the casting and not anything to worry about, despite not looking so nice.

View attachment 13222

*** I like good news.

 

[ancientdad]

I should have paid more attention to the bolt sizes when removing the exhaust valve cover. The longest is a rogue bolt. Can you tell me what’s correct?

By this point in most 450 engines' lives, too many ham-fisted POs have touched the valve cover bolts and often you find longer ones in use because they've previously overtightened them and stripped the threads at the depth of the originals, so they try to find fresh threads a little deeper in the head. I've had to do that on my engine as well due to POs behavior. You can only go just so much longer on bolt length though, most if not all of the holes do not go all the way through into the engine or it would allow another potential oil leak.

Brody is right - when he said "6mm" he did not mean quantity of 6, he meant 6mm diameter bolts, you are correct about quantity of 8 on each cover. Something you'll want to familiarize yourself with is nut and bolt terminology in metric sizing. A 6mm bolt has a 10mm head, but when we refer to nuts and bolts we describe them in thread size, not wrench size. The 17mm acorn nuts on the 8 studs that hold the top end of the engine together are on 10mm threaded studs, for example. The typical 8mm bolt on our bikes has either a 12mm or 14mm head depending on the application.

There was a metal plate when I took the cover off. There was a gasket on the engine side, but metal to metal on the cover side. I don’t recall seeing this plate in a video I watched.

View attachment 13216

Only the upper and lower crankcase halves go together on most Honda engines without a gasket, the set you buy for the top end repair will have gaskets for the cover and the plate in between, so a gasket on each side of the metal baffle plate (crankcase ventilation without spewing oil out of the cover)

I paid more more attention when I took off the intake cover. I noticed the two on the far right side of the cover as I face it on the bench were shorter than the others. Is that correct?

Probably the same situation as the exhaust side, reaching good threads deeper in the head. Use caution when tightening any 6mm bolt on these bikes, particularly on the engine.

I don’t much care for the looks of the inside of this cover

View attachment 13218

Brody is correct on this as well, those are just casting marks. Unless you see an actual crack on the outside then it's fine.

Did you remove the starter motor? Either way you'll need to remove the alternator cover to properly reinstall it, the small sprocket and chain will have fallen down in the cover when the motor was removed. Surprised it didn't cause issues turning the engine over. I see the alternator rotor cover (3 screws) is still on the engine. How did you turn the engine over manually to find the cam chain master link? And you did drain the oil before pulling the engine, right?

 

[davbib]

By this point in most 450 engines' lives, too many ham-fisted POs have touched the valve cover bolts and often you find longer ones in use because they've previously overtightened them and stripped the threads at the depth of the originals, so they try to find fresh threads a little deeper in the head. I've had to do that on my engine as well due to POs behavior. You can only go just so much longer on bolt length though, most if not all of the holes do not go all the way through into the engine or it would allow another potential oil leak.

Brody is right - when he said "6mm" he did not mean quantity of 6, he meant 6mm diameter bolts, you are correct about quantity of 8 on each cover. Something you'll want to familiarize yourself with is nut and bolt terminology in metric sizing. A 6mm bolt has a 10mm head, but when we refer to nuts and bolts we describe them in thread size, not wrench size. The 17mm acorn nuts on the 8 studs that hold the top end of the engine together are on 10mm threaded studs, for example. The typical 8mm bolt on our bikes has either a 12mm or 14mm head depending on the application.

*** Error on my part when I read his response. Good info. I think I’m going to stop and check those threads to see if they’ll hold the proper screws or not.

Only the upper and lower crankcase halves go together on most Honda engines without a gasket, the set you buy for the top end repair will have gaskets for the cover and the plate in between, so a gasket on each side of the metal baffle plate (crankcase ventilation without spewing oil out of the cover)

** I have one from 4 into 1 waiting.

Probably the same situation as the exhaust side, reaching good threads deeper in the head. Use caution when tightening any 6mm bolt on these bikes, particularly on the engine.

** reassembly will be done with a torque wrench. I’ll check the exhaust side threads too.

Brody is correct on this as well, those are just casting marks. Unless you see an actual crack on the outside then it's fine.

** no cracks on the outside.

Did you remove the starter motor?

** Yes, I did before I removed the engine from the frame.

Either way you'll need to remove the alternator cover to properly reinstall it, the small sprocket and chain will have fallen down in the cover when the motor was removed.

**I removed the alternator cover when I needed to turn the engine to find the master link. Sorry, not following. what small sprocket and chain?


Surprised it didn't cause issues turning the engine over. I see the alternator rotor cover (3 screws) is still on the engine. How did you turn the engine over manually to find the cam chain master link?

**Properly in the direction of the arrow.

And you did drain the oil before pulling the engine, right?

**Yes, I did.

Back in there today.

 

[stl360+450]

I removed the alternator cover when I needed to turn the engine to find the master link. Sorry, not following. what small sprocket and chain?

The starter motor inserts through the case into a small sprocket and a chain around that sprocket connects to a larger sprocket on the crankshaft. When the starter motor is removed without removing the left side side cover, the smaller sprocket will fall out of position and the chain with it. Turning the crank without removing these parts could cause it to get bound up.

Edit: Adding picture after finding one online.

 

[ancientdad]

** reassembly will be done with a torque wrench. I’ll check the exhaust side threads too.

You'll want to be very careful when checking the threads and using a torque wrench. Once the outer threads are compromised a bit, you'll either have to repair them (heli-coil or timesert) or use a little bit longer bolt. A longer bolt is more than acceptable but you'll need to tighten them by hand since the bolt will be using the deepest threads and there will be less good threads to work with than originally due to the damage done by the PO, so when you put it back together use caution and a careful "feel" for when it's tight enough without going beyond.

Back in there today.

Keep us posted, so far so good.

 

[davbib]

You'll want to be very careful when checking the threads and using a torque wrench. Once the outer threads are compromised a bit, you'll either have to repair them (heli-coil or timesert) or use a little bit longer bolt. A longer bolt is more than acceptable but you'll need to tighten them by hand since the bolt will be using the deepest threads and there will be less good threads to work with than originally due to the damage done by the PO, so when you put it back together use caution and a careful "feel" for when it's tight enough without going beyond.



Keep us posted, so far so good.

I’ll definitely be asking for help when I get to that point. I prefer repairing the threads and using the right sized bolts if at all possible.

 

[davbib]

The starter motor inserts through the case into a small sprocket and a chain around that sprocket connects to a larger sprocket on the crankshaft. When the starter motor is removed without removing the left side side cover, the smaller sprocket will fall out of position and the chain with it. Turning the crank without removing these parts could cause it to get bound up.

Edit: Adding picture after finding one online.
View attachment 13227

Got it. Not sure what happened. I’ll inspect that when I get out there today. Thanks.

 

[wentwest]

On those bolts with stripped threads, I have also run into the same situation and substituted longer bolts as long as they don't bottom out. You can try running a skinny pick into the open bolt hole and measuring the depth before you select a replacement. Even then I try to screw the longer bolts in with my fingers if I can. A quick blast of carb cleaner to clear out 50 years of junk in the remaining threads, and then a drop or two of light oil on the bolt helps. If you do all that and hardly tighten them at all there might be oil leaks, but oil leaks aren't forever. If that happens tighten them just a bit and try again. A thin layer of old school gasket sealer can help too.

 

[davbib]

Some updates from Sunday's efforts. I wanted to post yesterday, but the internet gods were not cooperating in my area.

I got the cam chain cut




Managed to keep the link out of the engine. Always a good sign.



Got the cylinder head off okay



Here is a piston view




The valves have probably looked better





I spent the rest of the afternoon battled stripped screws. I'm still working this. Next up, I'll get all of the other items off the engine.




One note:

-Even though I removed the starter from the engine prior to this, I managed to spin the starter chain all the way around without it getting snagged. After I ground down the link, it was positioned a bit too high for me to be able to get my breaker on it.

 

[ancientdad]

Looking good so far.

-Even though I removed the starter from the engine prior to this, I managed to spin the starter chain all the way around without it getting snagged. After I ground down the link, it was positioned a bit too high for me to be able to get my breaker on it.

Not sure I understand what you mean by the above, please clarify.

 

[stl360+450]

Looking good so far.



Not sure I understand what you mean by the above, please clarify.

I *think* he's referring to getting the cam chain master link in position. We had cautioned against turning the crank with the starter sprocket and chain hanging out loose inside the left cover, but it sounds like Dave managed to rotate the cam chain all the way around without incident.

Is it normal for a valve to be open after pulling the head off?

 

[davbib]

Looking good so far.



Not sure I understand what you mean by the above, please clarify.

I was referring to the comment above ^^ "The starter motor inserts through the case into a small sprocket and a chain around that sprocket connects to a larger sprocket on the crankshaft. When the starter motor is removed without removing the left side side cover, the smaller sprocket will fall out of position and the chain with it. Turning the crank without removing these parts could cause it to get bound up."

 

[davbib]

I *think* he's referring to getting the cam chain master link in position. We had cautioned against turning the crank with the starter sprocket and chain hanging out loose inside the left cover, but it sounds like Dave managed to rotate the can chain all the way around without incident.

Is it normal for a valve to be open after pulling the head off?

Yes, that's correct.

 

[wentwest]

Is it normal for a valve to be open after pulling the head off?

It is if the camshaft is still in the head. Probably better practice to rotate the crankshaft of the complete engine until all the valves are as relaxed as possible, but I can't imagine a serious problem the way we see it here.

 

[davbib]

It is if the camshaft is still in the head. Probably better practice to rotate the crankshaft of the complete engine until all the valves are as relaxed as possible, but I can't imagine a serious problem the way we see it here.

Yes, I took that pic right after I took the head off.

 

[ancientdad]

Is it normal for a valve to be open after pulling the head off?

It is unless you do what Bob described, but with the 450 it isn't important because the head can't sit flat (and therefore an open valve contact a hard surface) unless or until you remove the cam chain guides from the head which often isn't necessary - which begs the question why the bolt in the middle where the guide brackets overlap is so loose.

With the head on the bench the cam can be rotated individually and the only caution is to make sure both exhaust or intake valves are closed before rotating the opposite camshaft so the valves don't bump into each other (might not happen with stock cams though, haven't worked on a 450 with stock cams in a long time, LOL) So in his case, he should rotate the intake cam until both valves are closed before rotating the exhaust cam to do the same. We'll get into the setup for reassembly later when the time comes.

 

[davbib]

which begs the question why the bolt in the middle where the guide brackets overlap is so loose.

Good eye, Tom. I'm sure we'll see lots of surprises. Who knows what happened to this bike before it ended up in my garage. I did find a lot of loose bolts when I started stripping it down so I suspect it was in some state of mild assembly when I picked it up.

I'm finding little bits of junk in the engine as I take it apart. I just found this in the clutch side engine case.

 

[ancientdad]

^^^If it's rubber, it's probably a piece of the damper rings on either side of the sprockets on the camshafts. They eventually get hard and brittle and break up into pieces, do not bother to replace them. The engine and your ears will not miss them. If it's metal, then a better picture would be necessary...

 

[davbib]

^^^If it's rubber, it's probably a piece of the damper rings on either side of the sprockets on the camshafts. They eventually get hard and brittle and break up into pieces, do not bother to replace them. The engine and your ears will not miss them. If it's metal, then a better picture would be necessary...

I think they're rubber. Should I plan on removing what's left of them before then end up in the engine's future oil?

 

[ancientdad]

I think they're rubber. Should I plan on removing what's left of them before then end up in the engine's future oil?

Yep, remove all 4 rings or whatever is left of them. They never cause any real harm, but no point in letting the pieces end up in the bottom end.

 

[davbib]

Well, a gentle (and I mean gentle) tap of a rubber mallet on the cylinder block and....