Daiichi Points

450roo

450roo

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Adelaide, South Australia. Australia
I have been using Daiichi points for several years, with reasonable satisfaction, however I have had two or three set that, from new, could not be set to spark within the timing marks without excessively large and small gaps, well beyond .012 and .016th. These points look the same as the ones that works well. Have others struck the same problem, if so is there a repair?
Are there better points than Daiichi available?
Would love to hear your experiences.
 
Daiichi contact points suck,it's fortunate that you had any that worked previously.
I recommend ND OEM points,hopefully you can get them from a Honda dealer,etc. using the oem part #'s.
I think condensers should be replaced and get the most recent build date on the condensers you can find:they don't last with extended shelf life.
 
450roo said:
Are there better points than Daiichi available?
Click to expand...

4-into-1 sells a set of points for $11.90 US and a kit including the condensers for $23.61 US. I've used their condensers, but haven't used their points on my 450 so far. I was not able to determine the brand of the points, but there is a small number of positive reviews and no negative reviews as of this post.

Has anyone used the 4-into-1 points on a 450 or 500T?
 
Daiichi, and other aftermarket points, are one reason those guys in Houston had at one time (maybe they still do?) included a rat tail file in with the purchase of their points kit, LOL!
I have bought and used points sets from 4into1. I never paid much attention to the brand if there was even an indication but I can confirm they definitely are NOT oem and adjustment can be helped by doing a little filing modification to the mounting slots.
 
Daiichi points are not all bad.....The ones that come in Honda packaging are to Honda specs and are fine....
Ones that are "irregular" were sold as aftermarket under the Daiichi name and/or unbranded.....
HOWEVER, the Daiichi logo is on all their products and is a three-bladed propeller made by three arcs.....
Points that say only "made in Japan" or just Japan tend to be problematic.....
Kokusan, Hitachi, Nippon-Denso, TEC and Daiichi were all Honda suppliers/manufacturers at one time.....
 
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66Sprint said:
Daiichi points are not all bad.....The ones that come in Honda packaging are to Honda specs and are fine....
Ones that are "irregular" were sold as aftermarket under the Daiichi name and/or unbranded.....
HOWEVER, the Daiichi logo is on all their products and is a three-bladed propeller made by three arcs.....
Points that say only "made in Japan" or just Japan tend to be problematic.....
Kokusan, Hitachi, Nippon-Denso, TEC and Daiichi were all Honda suppliers/manufacturers at one time.....
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clarification Steve.
This is from a bulletin circa 1969. Is Daiichi a product of Mitsubishi? Or is this not the “propeller” marking you refer to?
1DA6BC33-92B9-49DA-B599-0A86EDCCC6D5.jpg
 
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Daiichi has smooth convex arcs from point to point, Mitsubushi has "diamond" shaped blades......

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in the lower pic (which I could enlarge) none of the point sets seem to have the Daiichi stamping....
I see Kokusan (maybe), Hitichi (probably), and possibly ND, but don't see any three bladed propellers.....
I can make out the logo stampings well enough to be sure they aren't Daiichi.....
 
Thanks for the comments!
I got a bit frustrated with the problem, I have been setting the timing on 450's for years and this is new. Will take a couple of days off and then start at the beginning and work it through. Bet it is something quite simple!
 
have you considered worn or missing thrust/shim washers on the advance unit?

This will often produce a timing error on one side.....
 
in the lower pic (which I could enlarge) none of the point sets seem to have the Daiichi stamping....
I see Kokusan (maybe), Hitichi (probably), and possibly ND, but don't see any three bladed propellers.....
I can make out the logo stampings well enough to be sure they aren't Daiichi.....
Click to expand...

Yes, Daiichi in the top picture ND in the lower picture, the work both, with the correct plate, just as good. Both brands have to be replaced after 10-15 K miles, so endurance is the same
 
IMO, to get the differences in points gap, there must be something different in the geometry of the points themselves. Something like a different distance from the pivot point to the rubbing block. It wouldn't take much. If you use a caliper to measure them, I suspect you'll find some difference in that distance, or maybe another, like from the contacts to the rubbing block. Poorly fitting around the pivot point could be at play here, too.
 
I have examined the points visually and there are no obvious differences. I tried replacing a new rocking part (bakelite) on an old good used point base, on the thought that most ware occured on the heal of the rocking part of the point. Still the same. This plus trying several other brand new and replaced but working points suggest that the problem is in the advance unit.
I must confess that rising frustration with attending raised blood pressure did not make rational thinking a part of working on the problem.
I have put it aside for a few days then I will start again and calmly and carefully work through the system.
It has to be something simple!
Thanks for the suggestions guys, talking to someone really helps!
 
66Sprint said:
have you considered worn or missing thrust/shim washers on the advance unit?

This will often produce a timing error on one side.....
Click to expand...

THIS is probably causing your advancer cam to rock back and forth and accelerate points pivot wear.
I have made circular round shims out of shim stock to get the clearance to about 010."? measured at the end of the advancer lobe where the hold-down bolt is on the camshaft and it made my points last longer.
 
ckahleer said:
If you can't get both right, what is more important, point gap or timing?
Click to expand...

The way you accomplish it involves points gaps and timing both. You set the left side timing with the points gap in the middle of the range ( .014", middle of .012"-.016"), then set the plate to get the left cylinder timing correct. Then you check the right side timing and adjust the points gap to bring it to the F mark, but if you have to exceed the range above or below the minimum and maximum settings, you go back to the left cylinder and either make the points gap larger or smaller to compensate for the amount off you were on the right cylinder. IOW, if you're advanced on the right side after doing the left, then you'll increase the left points gap so you can retard the plate a little bit and then readjust the right gap to bring the timing to F. Conversely, if you're too retarded on the right side after setting the left, you'd do the reverse. You work those procedures until you can get the timing correct on both while still within the points gap range of .012" to .016"
 
Problem solved! Yippee!
As promised I went through the system making sure every thing was within specs, installed the new Daiichi points still the same problem. Left and right hand points set at .015 thou, left hand right on the marks idle and full advanced. Right hand at idle the pointer is half way between idle mark and full advanced. Installed another set of Daiichi points same story.
Scrabbled through some boxes of bits and found a used, but not worn out, set of TEC points cleaned them and installed with .016 left side and .014 right side timing spot on both sides.
I have used several sets Daiichi points and found them quite satisfactory so there must have been a bad batch made. All the points I tried and was unable to make work, came from the same distributer and so likely from the same batch.
I will order a set of points from 4 into 1 and see how they perform.

Now I have several sets of bad Daiichi points that I must figure a way to make work. Have a couple of ideas, but no hurry!
Thanks for all the suggestions, it is nice to know one is not alone!
 
Glad you got it sorted out.
This may help with working on all the points that didn't fit right https://www.those guys in Houston.com/Honda-CB350-CB360-CL350-CL360-Points-Modification
 
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