Based on how much was cleaned up on some of them, I'm thinking they'll need to be plated again.
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A C78 project
- Thread starter boddy
- Start date
All hardware is going to be plated as well as many other pieces that were originally zinc plated and no longer have any lustre.
I don't know about your success doing that, but I tried it on a few nuts and bolts I overexposed to vinegar during my 450 build and the clear doesn't stop them from at least getting dark again afterward, or just re-rusting.
The plater I use seems to charge the same amount whether there is a lot of items or only a few. My plan is to give him everything at once in one big batch, so a hanfull of bolts and screws will be basically free.
Anything I would do that on is a car show piece like my ca95. Wouldn't do that on something I rode in the rain.
You must have better luck than me then because my bike has never been washed or ridden in the rain.
Then what is eating the clear coat?
Florida dampness getting under it is the only thing that I can think of. It's only even sat outside in the rain just once, all day, but otherwise always in my garage. Just didn't work for me, but let's get back to Brad's C78.
Looked at the starter solenoid which was pretty rusty. I tested it and it was seized so I decided to see if I could salvage it, since I had nothing to lose. I thought I had a picture of it's initial state from when it was on the bike, but I guess I never took one. I should have taken a pic before I removed the 2 screws that hold the top of the solenoid. There is one later on during the disassembly that will give you an idea of the condition. Here is the inside of the top cover that contains the 2 heavy and corroded contact points for the cables between the battery and the starter motor.
The lower half of the solenoid contains the windings and the "plunger" that moves upward when the starter button is pressed to energize the windings. The top of the plunger has a copper contact that connects the two contacts for the cables. In my case there was hardly any movement in the plunger, so I decided to open up the lower half. I had to go around the circumference and gently pry up the edge. I soon had the windings and plunger out of the lower case.
The plunger is attached to the contact plate with a small c-clip which is encased in a cup washer. I had to peel back the washer to get at the clip. Here is the plunger and all of it's pieces - the plunger is insulated from the contact plate with fiber washers.
To get the cap off I then un-soldered the bullet connectors and pulled the wires out of the top case.
Each post in the top case was taken apart. The posts are insulated from the case with fiber washers. Two large strips of fiber keep the big contact on the plunder from touching the metal case.
Here is the solenoid and all of it's components after a clean.
The casings are fairly rusted and there are rust holes in them so they are no longer water tight. I might try to epoxy them and then paint the cases. I will re-assemble and see if it works. If not I found another solenoid in a box of parts. It tested ok and it looks like the mounting bracket has the screw holes at the same distance as the original, so I might be able to mount it with the flat bracket.
The lower half of the solenoid contains the windings and the "plunger" that moves upward when the starter button is pressed to energize the windings. The top of the plunger has a copper contact that connects the two contacts for the cables. In my case there was hardly any movement in the plunger, so I decided to open up the lower half. I had to go around the circumference and gently pry up the edge. I soon had the windings and plunger out of the lower case.
The plunger is attached to the contact plate with a small c-clip which is encased in a cup washer. I had to peel back the washer to get at the clip. Here is the plunger and all of it's pieces - the plunger is insulated from the contact plate with fiber washers.
To get the cap off I then un-soldered the bullet connectors and pulled the wires out of the top case.
Each post in the top case was taken apart. The posts are insulated from the case with fiber washers. Two large strips of fiber keep the big contact on the plunder from touching the metal case.
Here is the solenoid and all of it's components after a clean.
The casings are fairly rusted and there are rust holes in them so they are no longer water tight. I might try to epoxy them and then paint the cases. I will re-assemble and see if it works. If not I found another solenoid in a box of parts. It tested ok and it looks like the mounting bracket has the screw holes at the same distance as the original, so I might be able to mount it with the flat bracket.
jensen
Veteran Member
Nice write-up and good pictures too !
I see you also unsoldered the 3.5mm male electrical connectors off the wires. I am impressed!
As already noted great write up with pictures for anyone in the future who needs a reference guide. The old Honda parts are so robust that I would be surprised if it doesn't work after reassembly.
jensen
Veteran Member
The CB72 and C78 dream are using 3.8 mm connectors, the later Honda bikes 3,5 mm. The difference doesn't seems much, but it is.I see you also unsoldered the 3.5mm male electrical connectors off the wires. I am impressed!
As already noted great write up with pictures for anyone in the future who needs a reference guide. The old Honda parts are so robust that I would be surprised if it doesn't work after reassembly.
I have an old Weller 2 stage soldering gun (100 and 140 w). About 30 secs on "high" and they pop right off. I will then take a small drill to clean out the solder and re-use them.
I was going to patch up my lower chain case as OEM replacements were fetching around $200~250.
I priced some sheet metal locally and it was $30 for a one foot square piece. Then I came across this on ebay and made an offer.
By the time I factored in the welders fee and the sheet metal, I figured this was the easier and cheaper route, plus it will fit perfectly.
I priced some sheet metal locally and it was $30 for a one foot square piece. Then I came across this on ebay and made an offer.
By the time I factored in the welders fee and the sheet metal, I figured this was the easier and cheaper route, plus it will fit perfectly.
jensen
Veteran Member
wow, that's a steal !
Yes, still lots of parts out there but there are some hard to find items. Currently looking for a rear sprocket but that has eluded me so far. There are some used ones available but mostly worn. The search continues...
RobMan
Veteran Member
Is the part number you are looking for 41201-266-000? I was looking and ran across this, supposed to be NOS but I can't tell for sure from picture. Great price US dollars. If you have already seen then disregard.
Not at home now so don't have access to my parts list, but I do need a 29 tooth 4 hole sprocket. Certainly looks good and the price can't be beat. Thanks @RobManIs the part number you are looking for 41201-266-000? I was looking and ran across this, supposed to be NOS but I can't tell for sure from picture. Great price US dollars. If you have already seen then disregard.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Got the part number from CMSNL so I think is the right number but please confirm. Looking at photo and comparing to CMSNL photo but I can't tell if it has been used or not. The ends of the teeth are not sharp at any rate.
RobMan
Veteran Member
Yeah that kinda puzzled me as well. I just did a reverse image lookup on google and found the same photo on another site, Classic Japanese Motorcycles, https://classicjapanesemotorcycles.com/products/honda-ca77-ca72-rear-wheel-sprocket-sku-6333,
so yeah I think it is a scam. Sorry to get your hopes up. Getting over the crud and too cold to work in the garage so just amusing myself so may look a bit more.
so yeah I think it is a scam. Sorry to get your hopes up.
Getting over the crud and too cold to work in the garage so just amusing myself so may look a bit more.
No worries, thanks for looking.
Here is my sprocket, quite worn in my opinion once you start to see pointy teeth.
Some good and bad news. There was a piece of rubber on the handle bar top plate and when I removed it, the reason was obvious. Looks like someone was prying on the plate and broke a chunk out. Fleabay to the rescue. I ordered a used one for $17 US shipping included.
Also received my bearings for the cam shaft and wheel hubs. I though it was a Canadian supplier but it looks like they actually came from the UK and are manufactured in Italy. They were ordered Dec 4th and arrived today.
Some good and bad news. There was a piece of rubber on the handle bar top plate and when I removed it, the reason was obvious. Looks like someone was prying on the plate and broke a chunk out. Fleabay to the rescue. I ordered a used one for $17 US shipping included.
Also received my bearings for the cam shaft and wheel hubs. I though it was a Canadian supplier but it looks like they actually came from the UK and are manufactured in Italy. They were ordered Dec 4th and arrived today.
jensen
Veteran Member
SKF has different production plants, and plants focus on a specific family of products, Italy, in this case.
Found a used sprocket that looks to be in very good shape. Got is for under $40 including shipping. Here is a pic of the teeth. It also came with the hub which is damaged but luckily mine is good and I wont need that part.
If you are gonna use that, at least remove it from the hub and flip it over. That is not in good shape - look at the arcs
In my experience a worn sprocket usually has the tip of the teeth worn to a point which elongates the gap between the teeth. If the teeth are square on the ends I assumed there was not much wear. Is your reference to the "arcs" the space between the teeth and why do you say it is worn?
Ah, ok. I see what you mean. I will flip it over and hopefully get some use out of it.
Also got the starter solenoid back together and it works perfectly, albeit a little shabby looking. I filled in some of the bigger rust holes with TechSteel to at least keep any moisture out and gave it a quick coat of paint. It's behind the side cover so out of sight. Before and after...
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Lol. If you saw it up close it would be a different comment - it's one of those looks good from far but....
That is pretty amazing. I would have just got the checkbook out
Thanks, in most cases I would also get out the checkbook, but I never had a solenoid apart so thought it would be a good learning experience, plus I saved an original part.
Got a plastic container with a lid and a large jug of VOC compliant varsol. I put the crank in there and will let it soak for a week or so. I plan to rotate the con rods and bearing a couple of times a day to try and dislodge any crud that is lurking in there. Will see if anything settles to the bottom. Glad I paid a little extra for the VOC stuff as there are no odors wafting up from the basement to annoy SWMBO.
While that is soaking, I'm trying to save the tailight socket assembly. The rubber that protects the bulb contacts just crumbled away when I tried to remove the bulb.
I added a ground wire that I will bring back to the negative battery terminal. I decided to use a piece of inner tube to protect the area. I started by cutting a strip and gluing the two ends together with ShoeGoo.
I then slipped the rubber over the area and glued this piece to the rubber donut that is around the bulb socket. I can only do a little at a time as it takes about 24 hours for the glues to set.
Once the perimeter is glued down I will glue the seam near the wires to weather proof it.
While that is soaking, I'm trying to save the tailight socket assembly. The rubber that protects the bulb contacts just crumbled away when I tried to remove the bulb.
I added a ground wire that I will bring back to the negative battery terminal. I decided to use a piece of inner tube to protect the area. I started by cutting a strip and gluing the two ends together with ShoeGoo.
I then slipped the rubber over the area and glued this piece to the rubber donut that is around the bulb socket. I can only do a little at a time as it takes about 24 hours for the glues to set.
Once the perimeter is glued down I will glue the seam near the wires to weather proof it.
Leaving for the holidays in a couple of days so didn't want to take on too big a job right now. I took the tank panels off to clean them up and give them a polish. The rubber was in very good shape and still pliable. Hit the rubber with some cleaner and followed up with some Armor All protectant.
The tank badges were rough with some of the paint flaking off. I scratched off most of the loose paint from the back of the badge. The gold paint was was very stuck on, so I left it alone.
I resprayed the back sides and gave the front surface a clean and polish. For me they will be quite usable even though there is still some crazing in the plastic.
Forty or fifty years of grime on the seat, it took at least 30 minutes of elbow grease to get it to this state.
The tank badges were rough with some of the paint flaking off. I scratched off most of the loose paint from the back of the badge. The gold paint was was very stuck on, so I left it alone.
I resprayed the back sides and gave the front surface a clean and polish. For me they will be quite usable even though there is still some crazing in the plastic.
Forty or fifty years of grime on the seat, it took at least 30 minutes of elbow grease to get it to this state.
Everything is cleaning up pretty nicely so far. You could use some cleaner polish with light compound in it (or buffing rouge) to take more of the scratches out of the tank badges if you wanted to smooth them out more.
stl360+450
Veteran Member
That's got to be very satisfying seeing the shine come back on those panels.
Seat is cleaning up nicely, also. Makes me wonder if you've ever left the house with your face half-shaved, though.
Seat is cleaning up nicely, also. Makes me wonder if you've ever left the house with your face half-shaved, though.
I had them on the buffing wheel but didn't want to go too far as the plastic can melt if too aggressive. I might do another gentle buff to see if I can improve things.
Yes I was very happy with the results. There are still some little pin points of rust but you can hardly see them and there is a good coat of chrome polish on there to protect.
Never left the house half shaved, but did grow a beard a few years ago and only shaved half off to see which side I liked better. I preferred the clean shaven look,
Yeah sorry, I did mean by hand. Though you could use a buffing wheel if you were gentle.
I had a coworker at the City job who once shaved half his moustache off while he was in the service to see if the sergeant would notice during inspection.Never left the house half shaved, but did grow a beard a few years ago and only shaved half off to see which side I liked better. I preferred the clean shaven look,
Brad, This is the buff for plastic and the blue compound is used with never an issue with overheating. It does throw off lots of fluff though, so a mask and an outside venue is my preference.
Caswell Canada in Ontario
caswellcanada.ca
Caswell Canada in Ontario
6" String Buff - Caswell Canada
Buff Plastic without danger of melting. Choice of 1/2" or 3/4" hole.
caswellcanada.ca
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ballbearian
Veteran Member
Very gentle. I ruined a good set by overtightening the screws. Came back a month later and had fractures. Maybe a micro dot of locktite and just snug.
It's been a while. I was away for the holidays but came back with a suitcase of parts for the Dream. I wasn't too keen on welding up the holes in the front fork, fearing the metal may warp with the heat. I found a front fork for under $90 including shipping, so I jumped on it. Managed to stuff the forks into my checked suit case lol.
I also managed to find some front brakes shoes (Versah stamped on them) but the blister pack says SCM - not sure how old they might be. Got a couple of Stanley bulbs, a used sprocket, used lower chain guard, some points and a few engine pieces.
I also got some D8HA plugs as they are supposed to be the replacement for the D8HS plugs but noticed the insulator is longer on the D8HA and the D8H has a recessed insulator. Not sure if this will make a difference. I think the D8HA is a hotter plug than the HS.
I also managed to find some front brakes shoes (Versah stamped on them) but the blister pack says SCM - not sure how old they might be. Got a couple of Stanley bulbs, a used sprocket, used lower chain guard, some points and a few engine pieces.
I also got some D8HA plugs as they are supposed to be the replacement for the D8HS plugs but noticed the insulator is longer on the D8HA and the D8H has a recessed insulator. Not sure if this will make a difference. I think the D8HA is a hotter plug than the HS.
Self Cycle and Marine, I bought from them when my cousin and I had our shop. Not sure when they closed but they were in operation in the '70s so those shoes are probably old. But, if they've been inside and aren't showing any visible signs of corrosion anywhere on the aluminum frames, they'd probably be fine.
Oh, and good job saving shipping by checking that bag full of front fork!
Oh, and good job saving shipping by checking that bag full of front fork!
Good to know about the brake shoes. They look very clean with no signs of any corrosion.
Scored everywhere there! The brake shoes look VG in sealed what seems to be a moisture proof packaging, so it has led a quality storage life seems.
The spark plug as long as the reach is identical will be fine. The extended insulator maybe a benefit on these older motors to reduce fouling if you have a rich condition of any sort.
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