A meticulous restoration of a CB72 '67 (and a SS50Z K3)

[boddy]

I'm sure it's "aircraft grade" tape guaranteed not to flap in the wind

 

[jensen]

Can't believe no one could have picked you up so you didn't have to walk 10 km in the middle of the night. That would not be very safe here in the US depending on your location.

I really wouldn't wake up my wife, and here in the Netherlands it's perfectly safe to walk in the night around 03.00 am (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world), anywhere (as a male at least). The only thing that were in danger were my feet in my safety shoes, these shoes are not made for walking

 

[ballbearian]

Here in the US, we have to remove our shoes to go through the airlines security scanners. I don't know if you had to also but the security staff may have been interested in your footwear. They do allow tools and such but only if they are in the checked baggage, not carry-on.

 

[jensen]

Here in the US, we have to remove our shoes to go through the airlines security scanners. I don't know if you had to also but the security staff may have been interested in your footwear. They do allow tools and such but only if they are in the checked baggage, not carry-on.

Same here, and I only have a carry-on backpack with me, enough for a week or two. No need to take tools with me, besides my laptop, some cables, charger, sometimes a camera, a few SSD disks and a headset. My motto is traveling light, everything I take with me is bought with that in my mind. Even my safety shoes are lightweight. One or two thin trousers (no denim), a few thin shirts, no jackets (except for a lightweight wind tight raincoat), underwear, socks, personal care stuff and a book or two, most of the time a hobby related book for some quality reading during the flight (I always carry a pocket version (soft cover) of Zen & The Art of motorcycle maintenance).

If you have to travel much, you'll learn to appreciate the lack of weight and settle for lightweight gear only. Same as on the bike.

​

 

[teebo]

I share the same travel theory. That and don’t travel with anything that can’t be replaced on the other end. Buying a new outfit and toiletries if they lose it is no big deal.

I don’t think the US is that unsafe in most places. I wouldn’t hesitate to walk that far. Well, except for having to walk that far.

When I was a young man relocating to Philadelphia, my engine blew on the drive there. I spent my money having some salvage yard put in a working one. I was dead broke and couldn’t get my tags replaced on time but had to drive for work. A jerk cop in New Jersey impounded the car. All the other cops couldn’t believe he was doing that so they were cool. I had to walk about that distance at 2am. One of the cops gave me a ride to the state line (actually a bridge over the river), so that shaved a couple miles off.

 

[ballbearian]

(I always carry a pocket version (soft cover) of Zen & The Art of motorcycle maintenance).

Thanks for the reminder. I need to order a copy and read it.

 

[ballbearian]

I need to order a copy and read it.

Done, ordered. Always good to expand my understanding of other's beliefs.

 

[jensen]

I did read 30 pages last week, it still teaches me new things, new perspectives of how you can look at certain paths of live.

 

[ballbearian]

I did read 30 pages last week, it still teaches me new things, new perspectives of how you can look at certain paths of live.

That's just it. Enduring relevance to modern thought has earned it a place among current philosophy (religion) and self reflection.
We all do know the therapeutic value of motorcycling, but seriously, the motorcycle part is just the bait and the thoughts therein are the hook, from what I've heard.
I better pipe down till I read it myself, as I'm fond of saying of the number one all time best seller, most read book.

 

[RobMan]

On order. been on my read list forever so thanks for bringing it up.

 

[jensen]

Wife is gone singing, so some time to spend in the shed.

Cleaning hardware and making it "plate-ready" is not fun, however, with a beer and some music it's doable. I do cut all threads with a high quality thread cutter and cutting oil, clean and polish the heads before soaking them in de-greaser and de-ruster.







Already 2 kg done, have to do another 4 kg.

Meanwhile, the workbench is full of other stuff I have to finish before start building the CB72 engine.

 

[kbongos]

Jensen what is your thought on ultrasonic cleaners?

 

[teebo]

jensen, do you always take someplace to plate or do you have a setup to do it yourself?

 

[bilbikek411]

Wife is gone singing, so some time to spend in the shed.

Cleaning hardware and making it "plate-ready" is not fun, however, with a beer and some music it's doable. I do cut all threads with a high quality thread cutter and cutting oil, clean and polish the heads before soaking them in de-greaser and de-ruster.

View attachment 36038

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View attachment 36040

Already 2 kg done, have to do another 4 kg.

Meanwhile, the workbench is full of other stuff I have to finish before start building the CB72 engine.

View attachment 36041

View attachment 36042

Trail 70 engine ??

 

[ballbearian]

Wife is gone singing, so some time to spend in the shed.

What happy events for both of you.

The satisfaction of working with 'good to go' parts is worth the tedium of reconditioning.

I hope the little 50cc single is as good as your usual rebuilds and that inbetween, inbetween won't slow you down much. A genuine Jensen factory rebuilt motor. What a treat.


I'm only on page 17 of ZATAOMM. I had to go back a few pages to pick up the train of thought and ponder on his use of the word 'chautauqua' (at least in the English version), perhaps the Dutch was different. Good stuff.

 

[jensen]

Jensen what is your thought on ultrasonic cleaners

They work, but I rather do this work by hand. I have one, and use it regularly.

jensen, do you always take someplace to plate or do you have a setup to do it yourself?

I don't do it myself, it's cheap and well done, and fast. Not per item, but per drum. A drum holds 20 to 35 kg at once, and will set me back 40 to 50 euro, depending on the mood of the person who does the work. For that kind of money you cannot do it yourself, and the quality is near perfect (but depends for 80% on to hours I invest doing the cleaning, de-rusting, and polishing.

Trail 70 engine ??

No, C50H (3-speed auto clutch) engine and a SS50 engine (4 speed manual clutch).

The satisfaction of working with 'good to go' parts is worth the tedium of reconditioning

Yes, it does. I use the thread cutter not only to clean and repair the threads, but also to se if the bolts are not deformed (stretch). The thread pitch of the cutter is fixed, so when a bold is stretched, the pitch is different. When the cutter has a lot of resistance while cleaning the threads, and metal chips are produced, I know that something is wrong with that bolt, either it's heavily damaged, or stretched. A stretched bolt can / will snap when re-used with the specified torque, to avoid issue's in the future, it's a one way ticket into the bin.

 

[jensen]

Next job is to collect the hardware from the dream, so, tearing down the dream as well.



But my shed isn't that big, and all those engines lying around, don't make things easier.







This bike also has the original spark plug caps, but need to be plated. After some research, I found a way to open them gently, and prepare them for plating.





with the original Honda logo..

 

[jensen]

The little engine in the picture is a PC50 engine, in the US called the little Honda. It's a four-stroke engine, but without a "real" oil pump, Has a centrifugal clutch and has just 1 speed, no shifting necessary. I did build this engine as an extra engine for my PC50, had all the parts lying around, mostly NOS. I remember acquiring a job-lot of PC50 stuff a long time ago. Furthermore, I always kept this little fellow, taking it for a ride when the weather is nice. It's not going fast ( 45 km/hr or around 25 mls/hr), but the mileage is great, 60 km or more on a liter of petrol (140 mls/gallon), my record was 85 km/ltr, which is around 200 mls/gallon.

Always handy having it when a petrol crisis is at hand

 

[ballbearian]

I will enjoy watching the work done on your Dream. There are a few differences compared to the US versions.

 

[jensen]

There are a few differences compared to the US versions.

The most obvious differences are the winkers and the hardware that comes with it. What are other differences to the US model ?

 

[ballbearian]

I've never seen a vehicle information plate on a US version. Your rectangular one ahead of the shock mount would be interesting to see more of.
The indicator light for the winkers, we don't have either. Is it in the face of the speedo?

 

[jensen]

The indicator light for the winkers, we don't have either. Is it in the face of the speedo?

No, there is no indicator light for the winkers. The winkers are mounted in a way that you can see them blink, high up the steering tube. I'll send you a detail picture of the tag in private, I don't like to share the engine and frame numbers on the internet.

Today I took the dream apart, started after lunch, and finished before dinner. I'm glad the PO lubricated everything, the only stubborn bolt was the steering stem bold. The frame itself has some minor rust, and some dings here and there, but nothing I can't fix. The mudguards are perfect, front and rear, no rust at all, some minor dings as well, but easy to fix.







The front rim is badly rusted, the rear rim is in good condition. I think the rear was replaced, the front not. The front tire as original too, the rear was dated somewhere around 1980, so I think that the PO replaced tire and rim at the rear at the same time.

The front fork is being build in a very complex way, lot's of weight, lot's of parts. I was happy to see that the front wheel pivoting parts were lubricated and in perfect shape.




In the Netherlands the distance between winkers are regulated by law, therefore Honda had to add a spacer between the winker and the frame (on both sides). This is typical a change that Honda didn't plan, the solution isn't that thought trough as you expect from Honda.

 

[jensen]

I don't use the equipment in the picture below often, but sometimes you have too. A Hitachi electric impact driver, I had to put it on the top of the range to get these loose. They came out dry, but not corroded.








The next step is to clean the bearings, and see if there is any play. These pivots are very important when it comes to stability of the front end.

 

[ballbearian]

Our frame numbers are stamped on the lower left frame near the swing arm pivot.

That frame is very clean, especially the battery support (early style long and skinny battery). Do you have the tool tray battery upper bracket? The early ones of those are different and very hard to find. Even your tailight mounting area on the fender seems without the usual vibration cracks, I inserted a rubber sheet on mine for future protection from fatigue cracks.

The fiber bushings on the front swingarms are pretty tough. The steel sleeves had more wear from lack of grease than I would have expected. Glad the rubber press in bushings also seem very good. Mine had lost some rubber and I used some boot sole repair butyl to make them usable.

Also glad you have the correct winker spacing pieces, wouldn't want the winker spacing code enforcement department to be hot on your trail.

Those front shock pivot bolts are the only time I've used my #4 JIS impact bit and they were very stubborn.

The whole leading link front suspension is pretty robust, even if it does not have a great deal of travel.
I did manage to save some info from the 305 forum of rebuilding both front and rear dampers.
I've heard this fork type is preferred for use with a sidecar but I don't think I've ever seen a Dream with a side car. I'd love to, just to see the shape of it along with the unique lines of the Dream body.

 

[jensen]

Our frame numbers are stamped on the lower left frame near the swing arm pivot.

Also the case with the European versions, so no differences there. But on top of that, the identification plate is mandatory for Germany / Netherlands. It also gives information on maximum weight and year of build.

Also glad you have the correct winker spacing pieces, wouldn't want the winker spacing code enforcement department to be hot on your trail.

I don't know if I place them back (the spacers), the risk of damaging them is higher. I don't think anyone was fined by not having the correct distance between the winkers, ever. When a company, like Honda want to sell a new model in the Netherlands, the bike has to meet the requirements, otherwise the company doesn't get a type / model approval, and thus cannot be sold in the Netherlands. That's also the reason that some bikes / models were not imported because Honda didn't want to stick to the requirements. In most cases, this requires special parts or solutions that were added to the bike in a later stadium.



This picture shows a detail of my early CB72'62, but on the later versions the same winkers are used. The height and distance between the winkers are related to the visibility in traffic. In the picture also the extremely rare winker switch, same as the CB92. These parts (winker, switch and mirror setup) are very hard to find. Luckily, I have all the parts to bring back the CB72 to the original specifications. I remember trading two complete sets for a set of NOS CYB aluminum wheels in the package.

Yes, the frame is in an outstanding shape, just a light surface rust here and there, however, there are some extra holes in the rear fender, I think someone added an aftermarket luggage rack. I didn't decide if I'm going to weld these holes.

I have all the parts of this bike, including the battery tray. When I buy a bike like this, I don't care about the chrome or paint quality, or if it runs or not. My decision to buy the bike is mainly influenced if the bike is complete, and if the hard to get parts are repairable. This bike (the C78) was advertised as a non-runner, and the seller asked me if I wanted that he should let the bike run. I asked him not to, and instead of that I asked him to take the rear wheel out, which he did before I came looking at the bike. I saw that the frame was in good condition, so I bought the bike (fairly cheap since it was a non runner with flat tires and a broken petrol hose).

It was a typical situation, the father bought the bike new (he bought the bike at Joop van Wees in Amsterdam, a very well-known bike shop at that time, see picture of the rear fender, I also got the receipt), maintained the bike well, passed away, and the son got the bike. The son was not technical and neglected the bike. He bought a new house, and there wasn't a place for the bike in his new home (and he didn't have a motorcycle driver license), so the bike had to go.



It was a long time ago that Amsterdam had a 5-digit phone number, btw, the date on the receipt is Saturday, 05-16-1964, around noon.

(Almost) every bolt, shaft, nut were lubricated, and easy to dissemble, a joy to work on. The typical problems of the frame (rusted through due to the double layer rear section) weren't here. The bike was used in the rain, but being protected by well by a thick layer of tectile. The only rusted part (surface rust) was near the battery, caused by a (literally) frozen (cracked) battery.

I did manage to save some info from the 305 forum of rebuilding both front and rear dampers.

I have a few NOS front shock, but these are in good condition, and probably replaced somewhere during its life (they came out very nice, no rust, and no leakages). I'm going to use these as they are, and see what happens. The rear shock should be rebuilt, I'll ask G-man if that's possible.



The parts look great. The grease visible in the shocks is actually grease I added to make sure it won't rust when using them.



Rubber of the brake arm is good to go too, nothing to be done here other than re-plating. The rubber won't detoriatebe harmed in the plating process, so I add this complete to the box of parts to be plated.





And a nice shot of my morning walk. The heath is blossoming, and everywhere you look it's purple. The red light of the sunrise accentuates the purple color even more. I did sit here for half an hour to enjoy the scene.

I like sunrises, and try to be on a nice spot when the sun rises. In our holiday trip to Spain, I got up early most of the days, and walk my morning walk, preferably to a nice spot and wait for the right moment. Yes, I'm one of those people setting my alarm at 5.30 AM during the holidays, do some exercises, drink a cup of coffee, have some eggs, and walk, almost every day. When coming back to the hotel or apartment, my wife and sons just woke up, or are still sleeping. Below just a few pictures taken in Spain at Cadiz, and Malaga.

 

[ballbearian]

That is an interesting winker switch. The other one I've seen was incorporated in the throttle housing. I'm not sure I'd care for a right hand winker though. Such a good choice to collect these parts when they were available, it is really paying off now.
A 1 owner vintage bike like that is a great find. Glad you're enjoying the ease of working on it.
The US models were stamped CA78 from 64 on.
The rear shocks had replacement hydraulic cartridges available as spares for a while. I remember hearing there were differences internally with seal sizes and piston rods if rebuilding yourself, or G-man. You have several options there with the NOS units.

I hope you will enjoy riding this bike as well.

 

[jensen]

That is an interesting winker switch. The other one I've seen was incorporated in the throttle housing.

I have those as well, but are for the later bikes. From 1959 until 1962 Honda, only on the CB92 and CB72, these winker switches were mounted, the CB450 K0 has already an integrated switch in the handle, just as you mentioned.

 

[kbongos]

Your camera really likes those sunrises. Great pictures, nice bike story. I got a inexpensive ultrasonic cleaner yesterday, tried some carb parts in it, while not magic, any help is good cleaning these old parts and is a nice addition to tools that are mostly hand scrubbing, scraping, brushes, fluids. I find it amazing the extent you go with re-plating bolts and other metal parts.

 

[jensen]

At work, I have a large ultrasonic cleaner, and at home a small one, works good with the right fluids

 

[jensen]

Rubber parts are good to go even the front fork gasket is still pliable.

 

[jensen]

Before plating I always make pictures per section of the bike, makes it a lot easier finding the right part after plating.

 

[jensen]

Also for the CB72

 

[ballbearian]

Thanks for the sunrise pics, what a nice treat. Almost as good as being there.

 

[jensen]

Specially for you @ballbearian

 

[jensen]

I find it amazing the extent you go with re-plating bolts and other metal parts.

These parts don't come cheap, so investing some time and a little money will gain a lot of valuable hardware, ready to mount.

 

[ballbearian]

Specially for you @ballbearian

Thanks Jensen, made my day.

I just noticed a lesser secondary reflection in the foreground just left of the path of the great light in the sky.
That's my spirit, out of the way, taking it all in and grateful.

 

[jensen]

I just noticed a lesser secondary reflection in the foreground just left of the path of the great light in the sky.
That's my spirit, out of the way, taking it all in and grateful.

Yes, I know, this is the downside making pictures with an Iphone. However, I did cut off that part and blew it up to an A4 size.

 

[jensen]

Another fabulous morning, a bit cooler, and even better to walk in a higher pace. However, sometimes you have to stand still to enjoy. Picture of a twin, and to HP as well, but no Honda.



In the evening,still prepairing and cleaning hardware. I think (hope) this will be one of the last boxes, but everytime when I'm opening a box I find more and more. This time CB72 parts of another CB72, and C78 parts as well.

The last C78 parts:



and CB72 parts:







And a more modern winker switch, mounted on the CB72'67, a left-handed version.

 

[boddy]

I'm curious about the 4 boxes. They look like they might be air filter holders but not like what I have seen for the CB72/77.

 

[RobMan]

You must feel a bit like an archeologist unpacking the boxes and wondering what you will find. BTW with your permission I made your 2 Horse Power photo my desktop background. I really enjoy your photography.

 

[jensen]

TW with your permission I made your 2 Horse Power photo my desktop background

Thanks, Granted !

I'm curious about the 4 boxes. They look like they might be air filter holders but not like what I have seen for the CB72/77.

They are, and standard on the German / Dutch version. I don't know exactly the reason why Honda decided to use these, but my guess is avoiding getting wet in our Dutch summers. Another reason could be to lower down the inlet sound (not likely), or power / torque build up / carburetor adjustments (again, not likely). Here is a link to the CMS site :https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb72-ha...l-export-142683_model14955/partslist/F09.html

The CB72 uses the power jet version carburetors, that's why one of the covers has an extra recess.

 

[boddy]

Thanks, Granted !



They are, and standard on the German / Dutch version. I don't know exactly the reason why Honda decided to use these, but my guess is avoiding getting wet in our Dutch summers. Another reason could be to lower down the inlet sound (not likely), or power / torque build up / carburetor adjustments (again, not likely). Here is a link to the CMS site :https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb72-ha...l-export-142683_model14955/partslist/F09.html

The CB72 uses the power jet version carburetors, that's why one of the covers has an extra recess.

I see the end caps and mounting brackets in the next photo and now it makes sense how they are used. Thanks for the explanation!

 

[jensen]

These items are not drawn in the exploded views of the FPM, or in the FSM. However, looking at the FPM these parts are mentioned in the list, have a number, are still for sale at CMS (around 72 euro) but not any drawing shows them mounted, except in the Dutch booklet that came with the bike. The end caps are obsolete, and very rare to be found. I only have one set f end caps, but three sets of covers. Most people took them off in the days, thinking it would be better for the air-flow, and are lost.

I have one set already plated years ago, and they look great. I will test with and without these covers on the dyno, but that will be next spring, I think.

 

[boddy]

Looking forward to pictures of the assembled air filters

 

[ballbearian]

The last C78 parts:

The shouldered 6mm screw that holds the curved rear brake switch arm to the frame is one I try to keep track of.

 

[jensen]

The shouldered 6mm screw that holds the curved rear brake switch arm to the frame is one I try to keep track of.

I understand, hard to get, and special as well. I don't have them in (registered) stock, but if I find one in my unregistered stock, I'll think of you.

 

[jensen]

Just to show that not everything I have is in good shape. This early CB72 muffler is past its expiration date or shelf life. Too far gone. It's not only this area, but everything is thin and brittle.




Both sides are totally rusted out, you can see light on the other side...



Early ignition coils of the CB72'62 with the hard to get aluminum details.



And another morning shot from this morning. It's still nice weather, however, next week it's getting colder and wet. But next week I'll travel to a much warmer part of Europe for a few days, so no worries, when I'm getting back, it will be nice weather again (I hope).

 

[jensen]

The first steps in making the wiring loom decent, giving the bikes a reliable electric system, extra ground's, and replacements of damaged or hardened out wiring. I have a few C78 wiring looms, some are in better shape than others, same with the CB72 wiring looms. Cut and paste, bad parts and replace for good parts of another loom, or replacing pieces of wires individually.



I always push (special tool needed) the wiring out of the multi pin connectors to see if everything is ok, and in doubt, replace the contact for a new one. The picture shows that the brown wire has to be replaced (damaged), the green one also (oxidized core, and heat damage).



Sometimes you find the strangest solutions, if there were no rules for used colors, open contacts etc.



And a nice (very early) morning walk, got up at 5.00 AM, had breakfast, and went out for a walk at 6.00 AM. I've seen nobody around, no dogs, no runners nothing, just me (and a few early birds).

 

[ballbearian]

These old and unusual parts are not seen very often. Is that connector block even a Honda part?

What a difference a day makes in your morning walk pics.

 

[kbongos]

Your 5AM walks are looking pretty good. What was I thinking becoming a night owl. I got out of bed at 10AM today I was pissed, it's like, crap, I just woke up and half my fricken day gone.