1967 CB450 K0 Resuscitation

[KHSE]

New member here. I did a New Member message but in a quick review I am a 73 yo who bought his 1967 CB450SS in 1969 and drove it as a daily driver for probably 5 years and then off and on for another 5 years before it then becoming a garage queen. It has some sentimental value because in 1971 I took a cute 18 yo out for a ride and she has now been my wife for almost 51 years. There have been a few major issues with the bike. Back around 1970 the mufflers rotted out and even then the dealer said he couldn't (or wouldn't?) get me NOS mufflers. So he sold me Hooker Headers. Being too clueless at the time (probably still am) I went ahead with that. I hadn't realized that the center stand had to be removed and they are very loud!! I miss the center stand and I want quiet!! The other thing is that one night cruising along a major highway the starter clutch decided to self destruct and take out the stator coil with it. I managed to get a stator coil but I just stripped all the starter mechanism out, leaving the starter motor attached. I haven't run the bike in about 15 years. I pulled it out of the back of my barn and took the tank off. I had drained it 15 years ago because the petcock was leaking and gas was running down through the carbs and into the engine/transmission oil. Looking in the tank there is a lot flaky rust and when I turned the tank over and thumped it a cloud of red dust fell out. Also, the throttle won't turn. I think the cable is good but the right carb seems stuck. So, short term, clean the tank, clean the carbs and see if it will run. Longer term, replace the mufflers, put the center stand back on, and get the starter motor working again. I have lots of bits, lots of gaskets, a work shop manual, and a parts manual. Looking at the work shop manual I had forgotten how poorly written it it...

I also have a CB450 special tools kit. When the dealer that sold me the bike went out of business I snagged it. Any idea that it is worth? Can't be too many of them out there...

Trying to attach some pics but it is giving me grief. Yesterday the system seized up and I lost everything so I will try again in the next post.

Bob

 

[KHSE]

Some pics. Has anybody seen the tank 'badges' on this tank. They came with the bike. Not sure why anyone would go to the trouble of changing them...

 

[ancientdad]

That's a quite valuable set of dealer-only special tools, most 450 owners don't have them.

 

[jensen]

Nice tool set, and complete as far as I can see. You won't be bored in the coming months, lots of work to be done. Do you want to make the bike original ? I see some parts on the bike that shouldn't be there, you already mentioned the mufflers, but the rear shocks, generator cover and fuel tank badges (maybe only dirty ?) are not K0 parts. Did you buy it new ?



This is my daily rider (during the spring and summer), one of the 2,5 bombers I have, and also used for commuting (60 km one way).

 

[Mighty-Cycles]

Nice bike, look forward to your posts detailing the resurrection

 

[RobMan]

Welcome from North Carolina. The bike looks darn nice the way it is but I am looking forward to seeing you getting it back on the road.

 

[RobMan]

I also have a CB450 special tools kit. When the dealer that sold me the bike went out of business I snagged it. Any idea that it is worth?

Found this on Ebay and not nearly complete as yours, asking US $449.99.

1960's Kowa Honda Motorcycle CB 450 Special Tool Box Green With Tools | eBay

Kowa Special Tool Kit.

www.ebay.com

 

[12ozPBR]

Very nice! I love the fact you have had this bike all this time and desire to resurrect it now. Many good people on this site to offer knowledge and encouragement. If you are interested in gaining some working capital I would be happy to discuss and possibly make an offer on that tool kit. Same for the exhaust. No pressure though. Welcome to VHT!

 

[J-T]

Not exactly the situation this was written for but it may be helpful:

Basic Checklist for the New to you Old Bike

Note: this was originally written for the SOHC 400/450's so some information may not apply. Congratulations, you are the proud owner of a Vintage Honda Twin. One that may or not may have been maintained properly. Of course, the previous owner told you that everything is absolutely perfect and...

www.vintagehondatwins.com

 

[boddy]

Welcome. Very nice survivor and the Honda shop tools are a nice addition. Looks like some of the valve seat cutters were not even opened. I will be following this thread with interest.

 

[Troy]

I will be following this thread with interest.

Yup...me too.

 

[KHSE]

Nice tool set, and complete as far as I can see. You won't be bored in the coming months, lots of work to be done. Do you want to make the bike original ? I see some parts on the bike that shouldn't be there, you already mentioned the mufflers, but the rear shocks, generator cover and fuel tank badges (maybe only dirty ?) are not K0 parts. Did you buy it new ?

@jensen Very nice K0 you have there and looking at your prior posts I have seen you really know the K0s very well. I got the bike used in 1969... The PO had done some things to it. It seems he was disabled in some way and had modified the rear brake lever so he could actuate it using his left foot on the left side of the bike. I had that changed back by the dealer before I accepted it. The bike also came with the rear shocks it currently has so maybe they were original to the bike? I got it in Canada as that is where I grew up. The badges on the tank also were on the bike when I got it. Either they were some aftermarket thing or somebody machined them out of aluminum. No idea why they did that. I do have a set of real badges though they may not be original K0 badges.

The alternator cover was changed out after I had a rear flat tire while going 50mph around a corner. Slowed down quite a bit but the front wheel climbed a curb and I dropped the bike on top of myself to save the bike - stupid teenager. Only wore out the seam in my jeans and a bit of the clutch lever. The gear shift however punctured the alternator cover so I put the current one on.

I'd like to keep it original although I'm not thinking show bike. I'd like to get it running and then figure out what to do with it...

 

[KHSE]

Found this on Ebay and not nearly complete as yours, asking US $449.99.

1960's Kowa Honda Motorcycle CB 450 Special Tool Box Green With Tools | eBay

Kowa Special Tool Kit.

www.ebay.com

@RobMan Ha, you think you have something special and then they start falling out of the sky... Mine is fairly complete but probably not totally...

 

[KHSE]

Very nice! I love the fact you have had this bike all this time and desire to resurrect it now. Many good people on this site to offer knowledge and encouragement. If you are interested in gaining some working capital I would be happy to discuss and possibly make an offer on that tool kit. Same for the exhaust. No pressure though. Welcome to VHT!

@12ozPBR Thanks for the encouragement!! Stay tuned, I may decide to sell it all. At 73 yo I would like to find a good home for it before I croak but I'd still like to have some fun with it before then... Why would you want the exhaust?

 

[KHSE]

I took the carbs off yesterday. I was concerned about how hard the rubber intake thingies were since I didn't want to wreck them but a little judicious heat gun work got the carbs out fine. I just hope they seal back up when I put them back on... I have some cleaning to do. Back when I put the Hooker Headers on the bike the bike didn't run as well as it had previously so the dealer told me to change the carb jets to bigger ones to compensate for the lesser back pressure from the exhaust. I don't know if he was right about that but the jets are larger than stock though I still have the original jets.

 

[KHSE]

Not exactly the situation this was written for but it may be helpful:

Basic Checklist for the New to you Old Bike

Note: this was originally written for the SOHC 400/450's so some information may not apply. Congratulations, you are the proud owner of a Vintage Honda Twin. One that may or not may have been maintained properly. Of course, the previous owner told you that everything is absolutely perfect and...

www.vintagehondatwins.com

@J-T Thanks, I'll read that.

 

[jensen]

The bike also came with the rear shocks it currently has so maybe they were original to the bike?

No, they appear to be K1-K.. shocks, hence the chrome top. The K0's have a closed rear shock, no spring visible, and the top cover is black, not chrome. The generator cover is also from a later model.

Your bike is a good starting point, almost all the pricey parts are there. The total costs to get the bike running is mainly depending on the engine in your case.

 

[CB450DX]

Bike looks much better than I expected considering everything.
A lot of wrenching, a lot of love, and some new gaskets and I bet it'll run just fine. It's a Honda, after all.
I don't think the bigger jets will give you any trouble, even when you manage to find a quieter exhaust (gas has changed as well), but if they do... Well, you have the original ones.

It has some sentimental value because in 1971 I took a cute 18 yo out for a ride and she has now been my wife for almost 51 years.

This makes me sentimental as hell.
I just took my girlfriend for a very small ride for the first time a few days ago, after a lot of work since she has a trauma from seeing a bad motorcycle crash happen in front of her (she was not involved).
I hope to someday tell the same story when looking at my bike.

Wishing you all the best on getting it back to the road, I bet that bike wants to run just as much as you want it to. Good luck.

 

[KHSE]

OK, here's a slight update:

I took the carbs apart and cleaned them as best I can with carb cleaner, a toothbrush, and compressed air. There's one jet that's a bit plugged. The one next to the main needle jet. I'll keep soaking it. The carbs are the 14E type. I'm contemplating a rebuild kit. Has anyone used the Common-Motor rebuild kits? Are they good? Some of their jets don't look quite like the old bits.

The rectifier used to have a rubber thingy that went around the edges. That rubber bit has totally disintegrated and fallen off into the battery box area. Any reason to worry about not having it on there?

Took off the contact cover. Nice and clean in there. Hooked up my battery charger as a power source. Looks like some electrical gremlins. No neutral light, no headlight, some light in the speedometer, tail light works, no brake light. Bought a new battery, charging it now, checked for shorts in the electrical system and didn't find any so will hook the battery up and see if the plugs will spark...

Saw a rotor and starter clutch on ebay so I snarfed it up. Should I rebuild it? It seems to work fine in my hands. If I am to rebuild it, how do I get that outer clutch plate off? Where can I get a new clutch plate and caps and springs to repair it? I saw one site where the starter clutch bits were out of stock and no plate. Haven't found any others yet. The 'new' one sure looks better than my old one that self-destructed and took out my stator... Should I just use the 'new' one as it is?

 

[KHSE]

Bike looks much better than I expected considering everything.
A lot of wrenching, a lot of love, and some new gaskets and I bet it'll run just fine. It's a Honda, after all.
I don't think the bigger jets will give you any trouble, even when you manage to find a quieter exhaust (gas has changed as well), but if they do... Well, you have the original ones.

This makes me sentimental as hell.
I just took my girlfriend for a very small ride for the first time a few days ago, after a lot of work since she has a trauma from seeing a bad motorcycle crash happen in front of her (she was not involved).
I hope to someday tell the same story when looking at my bike.

Wishing you all the best on getting it back to the road, I bet that bike wants to run just as much as you want it to. Good luck.

@CB450DX Take care of the bike and the girlfriend and they'll last you a lifetime!!!

 

[ancientdad]

Has anyone used the Common-Motor rebuild kits? Are they good?

You should know that most carb kits have incorrectly sized brass parts, whether it be jets or float needles, and it doesn't matter if you buy them from CMC or 4into1, kits are all pretty similar. Your best approach is to clean the original jets (which hopefully are original Keihin) or buy them from JetsRUs or Sirius Consolidated. And in case you haven't realized it yet, most of Common Motor's parts are marked up higher than almost everywhere else that sells the same parts so it pays to shop around. If you haven't seen it yet, the Welcome Package has a link in it with suggestions for identifying and sourcing parts for these bikes.

The rectifier used to have a rubber thingy that went around the edges. That rubber bit has totally disintegrated and fallen off into the battery box area. Any reason to worry about not having it on there?

You should toss the original rectifier and separate regulator and use a modern rectifier/regulator combo unit, and the best value on one is here - http://www.sparckmoto.com/Products/Detail/7
The original rectifier gets degraded in functionality over the decades and probably leaks ac voltage into the charging system at this point.

Saw a rotor and starter clutch on ebay so I snarfed it up. Should I rebuild it? It seems to work fine in my hands. If I am to rebuild it, how do I get that outer clutch plate off? Where can I get a new clutch plate and caps and springs to repair it? I saw one site where the starter clutch bits were out of stock and no plate. Haven't found any others yet. The 'new' one sure looks better than my old one that self-destructed and took out my stator... Should I just use it as it it?

I really wish you'd asked more about it and posted that eBay ad first, that one is not in the best of shape. It has been rebuilt (notice the staked screws look like a caveman did it) and was very loose on the rotor before the rebuild happened, which allowed this kind of excess wear.

 

[km125motos]

Bob - welcome. You've come to the right place. Good job with keeping it all these years and thanks for sharing your story with us. I got into Hondas because of the SS50 my dad had in Viet Nam when we were growing up.

Looks like you're moving along and checking things off. Is the clutch plate in the second picture the one that came from your bike? I hope it's not the one from ebay because it belongs in the scrap bin.

Which part of Indiana? I come to Indy quite a bit.

 

[KHSE]

You should know that most carb kits have incorrectly sized brass parts, whether it be jets or float needles, and it doesn't matter if you buy them from CMC or 4into1, kits are all pretty similar. Your best approach is to clean the original jets (which hopefully are original Keihin) or buy them from JetsRUs or Sirius Consolidated. And in case you haven't realized it yet, most of Common Motor's parts are marked up higher than almost everywhere else that sells the same parts so it pays to shop around. If you haven't seen it yet, the Welcome Package has a link in it with suggestions for identifying and sourcing parts for these bikes.

You should toss the original rectifier and separate regulator and use a modern rectifier/regulator combo unit, and the best value on one is here - http://www.sparckmoto.com/Products/Detail/7
The original rectifier gets degraded in functionality over the decades and probably leaks ac voltage into the charging system at this point.

I really wish you'd asked more about it and posted that eBay ad first, that one is not in the best of shape. It has been rebuilt (notice the staked screws look like a caveman did it) and was very loose on the rotor before the rebuild happened, which allowed this kind of excess wear.

@ancientdad. I didn't notice the staked screws when I bought it off ebay. I was wondering why they were mangled. Guess I'll ask on here next time. The damage you indicate is actually my original starter clutch that came apart and tore out my stator some 50 years. I hope you are not thinking that is the one I got off ebay. Do you have an opinion on whether I should use the ebay one or not? The rotor is probably better than my old one. After my starter clutch fiasco, my rotor was loose on its shaft. My friend's father was a machinist and he drilled it, tapped it, and put some small allen screws between the rotor and shaft to tighten it up.

I have been browsing lots of threads on here and came across prior comments that you have made about the carb rebuild kits being suspect so I'll stick with what I have. Interestingly I dug out my original jets and they were wrapped in the receipt for the larger jets I bought. The receipt was dated September 1969 and the larger jets were like 40 cents each... I'll check out JetsRUs and Sirius Consolidated and check out the rectifier/regulator you indicated. Their website indicated that their rec/reg was plug and play but offhand it looks to me like some rewiring is involved. What is your experience with that?

 

[KHSE]

Bob - welcome. You've come to the right place. Good job with keeping it all these years and thanks for sharing your story with us. I got into Hondas because of the SS50 my dad had in Viet Nam when we were growing up.

Looks like you're moving along and checking things off. Is the clutch plate in the second picture the one that came from your bike? I hope it's not the one from ebay because it belongs in the scrap bin.

Which part of Indiana? I come to Indy quite a bit.

@km125motos Hi, thanks for the welcome. Yes, the gnarly one is my original that self-destructed. I'm near Lebanon, northwest of Indy.

 

[ancientdad]

@ancientdad. I didn't notice the staked screws when I bought it off ebay. I was wondering why they were mangled. Guess I'll ask on here next time. The damage you indicate is actually my original starter clutch that came apart and tore out my stator some 50 years. I hope you are not thinking that is the one I got off ebay. Do you have an opinion on whether I should use the ebay one or not?

It wasn't clear which one was which in your pictures. The picture of the one you bought is hard to tell much from, you can tell it has been apart by the new stake marks in the screws but since it's obviously used for a while after that repair it's hard to be sure if it's usable as is. Personally, I'd take it apart and inspect it to be sure the outer housing isn't cracked under that sheet metal cover Honda put over the cast outer. I replace the springs, caps and rollers each time I rebuild one. You should always ask for recommendations on most used parts you're buying unless you're 100% sure, as well as some of the less obvious purchases you might need to make, as all of us here have been in that position before and we hate to see members throw good money after bad.

The rotor is probably better than my old one. After my starter clutch fiasco, my rotor was loose on its shaft. My friend's father was a machinist and he drilled it, tapped it, and put some small allen screws between the rotor and shaft to tighten it up.

Does that mean that he did something like this with the allen screws? (if the blue circle is the crankshaft, viewed from the opposite side)



If so, I assume that means your crankshaft still has those half-circle threaded cuts in the end of it.

...and check out the rectifier/regulator you indicated. Their website indicated that their rec/reg was plug and play but offhand it looks to me like some rewiring is involved. What is your experience with that?

Their rec/reg unit plugs into most of our twins wiring harnesses and uses the black wire from the old regulator connections as a battery voltage monitor. Once you get the unit, post pictures of your wiring harness plugs in the area and the plug on the new unit and we'll help you get it connected properly.

Please remember that since we can't see any of these parts on your bike, pictures are very important and you should always post pics for clarity of what you're asking about.

 

[KHSE]

It wasn't clear which one was which in your pictures. The picture of the one you bought is hard to tell much from, you can tell it has been apart by the new stake marks in the screws but since it's obviously used for a while after that repair it's hard to be sure if it's usable as is. Personally, I'd take it apart and inspect it to be sure the outer housing isn't cracked under that sheet metal cover Honda put over the cast outer. I replace the springs, caps and rollers each time I rebuild one. You should always ask for recommendations on most used parts you're buying unless you're 100% sure, as well as some of the less obvious purchases you might need to make, as all of us here have been in that position before and we hate to see members throw good money after bad.

Does that mean that he did something like this with the allen screws? (if the blue circle is the crankshaft, viewed from the opposite side)

View attachment 41642

If so, I assume that means your crankshaft still has those half-circle threaded cuts in the end of it.

Their rec/reg unit plugs into most of our twins wiring harnesses and uses the black wire from the old regulator connections as a battery voltage monitor. Once you get the unit, post pictures of your wiring harness plugs in the area and the plug on the new unit and we'll help you get it connected properly.

Please remember that since we can't see any of these parts on your bike, pictures are very important and you should always post pics for clarity of what you're asking about.

Sorry for the confusing pictures, my bad.

In your pic with the red dot, NO, he didn't put the allen screws there.


I stole this pic from somewhere on your website - the allen screws are between the central shaft (kind of a dark colour) and the main rotor body (silvery colour). There's a very fine spline between the two parts and the allen screw are in that interface.

Thanks - I will get the regulator and post pics before chopping into the wiring. I'm in a bit of a quandary on what order I should do things in though. Right now it is 1) gas tank, 2) carbs, 3) ignition. If I mess with the regulator before that will it mess me up and have me chasing too many issues at once or is it better to do the regulator first so that a maybe defective original rectifier does itself cause problems?

Bob

 

[ancientdad]

I stole this pic from somewhere on your website - the allen screws are between the central shaft (kind of a dark colour) and the main rotor body (silvery colour). There's a very fine spline between the two parts and the allen screw are in that interface.

Interesting, thanks for the clarification though it isn't important now that where those allen screws were used has been cleared up. I can't say I've ever seen a Honda alternator rotor come loose at those factory-pressed-together center splines. My concern was for the end of your crankshaft only.

Thanks - I will get the regulator and post pics before chopping into the wiring.

There shouldn't be any wiring chopping necessary, the unit is designed to plug into the factory harness where the rectifier plugs in originally.

I'm in a bit of a quandary on what order I should do things in though. Right now it is 1) gas tank, 2) carbs, 3) ignition. If I mess with the regulator before that will it mess me up and have me chasing too many issues at once or is it better to do the regulator first so that a maybe defective original rectifier does itself cause problems?

You can work on the rec/reg unit later, leaving the original charging system parts in place for now won't interfere with you getting the engine running. Work on the gas tank, carbs and ignition system first.

 

[Troy]

Their website indicated that their rec/reg was plug and play but offhand it looks to me like some rewiring is involved. What is your experience with that?

Matt at Sparck Moto is incredibly helpful and from past experience if you email him and tell him what exactly what you need and what your wiring requirements are, you will get something that is plug and play

 

[KHSE]

Interesting, thanks for the clarification though it isn't important now that where those allen screws were used has been cleared up. I can't say I've ever seen a Honda alternator rotor come loose at those factory-pressed-together center splines. My concern was for the end of your crankshaft only.

@ancientdad, I suspect that the rotor loosened around its shaft during the starter clutch self-destruction. I still have no idea why the starter clutch would fly to pieces while blasting along at speed. Having happened 50 some years ago I couldn't tell you now what it sounded or felt like... But the lights went out and the engine was dying, probably related to the stator coil being torn to pieces. Fortunately I was coming up on an exit and left the bike at a farmhouse and the family there was nice enough to give me a ride back to University.

 

[ancientdad]

@ancientdad, I suspect that the rotor loosened around its shaft during the starter clutch self-destruction. I still have no idea why the starter clutch would fly to pieces while blasting along at speed. Having happened 50 some years ago I couldn't tell you now what it sounded or felt like... But the lights went out and the engine was dying, probably related to the stator coil being torn to pieces. Fortunately I was coming up on an exit and left the bike at a farmhouse and the family there was nice enough to give me a ride back to University.

The 3 mounting screws on starter clutches sometimes come loose, possibly from a hard-starting engine that might kick back occasionally during cranking from incorrect timing, but once the screws come loose it's just a matter of time before the pulsations of the 180° crankshaft firing sequences cause the screws to get so loose that they do damage to the rotor. Yours clearly went to that point and beyond back then, and it might have made a low rpm knocking noise you just didn't recognize as potential trouble at that age.

 

[KHSE]

A bit more progress and head scratching;
I've been fussing with the carbs as most 450 owners are likely to do. My last report had one of the pilot jets plugged. It was successfully unplugged using an E string from a violin. Now I'm stuck with the AJ (air jet??, labelled AJ in my FSM) it's the brass tube at the bottom of the air filter side. One carb is good. The other carb doesn't seem to have a hole. I tried looking down the tube with a microscope but can't get enough light down there and look down there at the same time... My assumption is there is supposed to be a hole, same as the other carb. Any ideas on how to clean it? I have been using my violin string with no success.

I noted earlier that some of my carb bits look different from the bits found in rebuild kits. One example is the idle screw, it is a lot pointier than the blunt ones in the kits:




The battery is in, spark plugs out, and they spark!!! Glad of that.

In contemplating the Sparck Moto regulator, my rectifier does not have 'plugs'. The wiring harness uses eyelets that are screwed onto the rectifier. So chopping up the harness may be necessary here...?




Poking at little things - I fixed the brake light switch. There was a broken wire at the switch. The horn works. The starter motor solenoid wiring harness doesn't show any voltage when I push the starter button. Probably a dirty contact in the button I'd guess.

I have been thinking of using Valvoline 10-40 synthetic motorcycle oil. Any opinions for or against this oil? I note @jensen uses 10-40 oil but don't know what kind.

That's it for now.

Bob

 

[ancientdad]

Bob, sorry I lost track of your bike being a K0 so yes, you will need to put together a pigtail. Check with Vintage Connections for matching terminals, maybe even a ready-made one that will connect to their rec/reg

 

[jensen]

So chopping up the harness may be necessary here...?

No, not necessary, buy one of these :



Buy one of these, cut off the ones you don't need, bore out the hole, and screw the eyelets to the plug. Use a shrink tube for safety, and you're ready to go. This way you keep the original wire harness, with the exclusive colored tubes, so you can always go back to the original.

At least, that's how I went from eyelet to any other sort of electrical contact.

In the Netherlands we have Rick Donkers, a well known supplier of all kind of electrical stuff and contacts, I guess there must be a shop like this in the US as well: https://www.rdae.nl/30-586br-schuifstekker-verloop-1-3.html

 

[jensen]

I have been thinking of using Valvoline 10-40 synthetic motorcycle oil. Any opinions for or against this oil? I note @jensen uses 10-40 oil but don't know what kind.

As long as you didn't take your engine apart, cleaned everything thoroughly, I would suggest not to use any synthetic oil at all. Be also careful with mineral oils that have a high detergent power, these oils will do the cleaning for you, but drop the debris in places you don't want them (for example in your crank).

btw, I use Castrol power RS racing 10W50

 

[KHSE]

As long as you didn't take your engine apart, cleaned everything thoroughly, I would suggest not to use any synthetic oil at all. Be also careful with mineral oils that have a high detergent power, these oils will do the cleaning for you, but drop the debris in places you don't want them (for example in your crank).

btw, I use Castrol power RS racing 10W50

OK, I'll look for good old motorcycle oil...

 

[KHSE]

A bit of a victory: I had a plugged AJ in my right carburetor. Fiddled with it for quite a while with my violin E string but no luck. However, I have oxy-acetylene welding equipment and I have tip cleaners for my torches... I found a tip cleaner that fit nicely into the left carb's AJ and then used that on the right carb AJ and pretty soon all was unplugged!

Now, everywhere I look on this site everyone seems to say to set the float height to 20mm but my FSM has a drawing of a gauge for setting the height and it measures in at 17mm. I have 14E carbs and I haven't seen these mentioned anywhere, people always seem to talk about 14H carbs. Can anyone clarify if 17mm or 20mm is correct for 14E carbs? I don't really know when my FSM was printed but on the outside of the back cover where it says Printed in Japan there's a '66.4. Printed in 66? All the pics in the manual are for a black bomber.

I'd like new bits for my gas petcock. David Silver Spares has genuine bits as well as some alternatives. Which are better when what you want are o-rings etc? Are the old originals all dried up like the ones in my bike and I should get new alternatives or what?

What size wrench do you use to get the oil drain plug off? It's around 19mm. I have Hooker Headers on the bike and they are in the way of the drain plug so I can't fit a socket and I don't have a 19mm wrench but I'll get one if need be.

I poured an amazing amount of rust out of the gas tank. Thinking of using the Deox-C. I hope it doesn't eat the tank away...

 

[ancientdad]

A bit of a victory: I had a plugged AJ in my right carburetor. Fiddled with it for quite a while with my violin E string but no luck. However, I have oxy-acetylene welding equipment and I have tip cleaners for my torches... I found a tip cleaner that fit nicely into the left carb's AJ and then used that on the right carb AJ and pretty soon all was unplugged!

Glad it worked, but I'm sure you know to be careful with tip cleaners because they can enlarge the jet easily if you get too aggressive.

What size wrench do you use to get the oil drain plug off? It's around 19mm. I have Hooker Headers on the bike and they are in the way of the drain plug so I can't fit a socket and I don't have a 19mm wrench but I'll get one if need be.

In your case a 6 point 19mm wrench is the best bet, when struggling to loosen a drain plug that isn't easy to reach it's easy to slip off and a 12 point wrench wouldn't be as safe on a drain plug that can be incredibly tight depending on how the PO last tightened it. And some go all gorilla on it when you don't have to because the o-ring seals it.

I'll leave the carb and petcock questions to those who know the Bomber better.

 

[Troy]

From my FSM printed in 1972. This may or not be useful in your situation but float height is indicated as 20mm. Does your FSM have a table of specs or just the illustration that you mention? Perhaps somewhere else in the manual is another source of info?

 

[KHSE]

From my FSM printed in 1972. This may or not be useful in your situation but float height is indicated as 20mm. Does your FSM have a table of specs or just the illustration that you mention? Perhaps somewhere else in the manual is another source of info?

View attachment 41739

Ha!! That table is exactly the same as my table and it has the same page number too... Strange, you'd think it would be different... On the back side of your page, page 63, I can see the same drawing of the measuring gauge as in my manual. I bet if you measure it with a ruler it will be 17mm. Which is right? The table or the gauge? Of course, dumb me, I never thought the fuel level reference in the table was for the float height but if it is where do you measure from? The gauge on the previous page has to measure it from the lip of the float chamber...

 

[KHSE]

Glad it worked, but I'm sure you know to be careful with tip cleaners because they can enlarge the jet easily if you get too aggressive.

In your case a 6 point 19mm wrench is the best bet, when struggling to loosen a drain plug that isn't easy to reach it's easy to slip off and a 12 point wrench wouldn't be as safe on a drain plug that can be incredibly tight depending on how the PO last tightened it. And some go all gorilla on it when you don't have to because the o-ring seals it.

I'll leave the carb and petcock questions to those who know the Bomber better.

Oh ya, no reaming with the torch cleaners, very light touch.

My hooker headers are right below the drain plug. Can't get a socket in there. I'll get a good 19mm wrench and see what I can do. Since I'm the PO, any issue is an issue I made. If I start rounding out the drain plug I'll have to take the headers off. Don't want to of course. Break an exhaust stud and I won't be happy...

 

[Troy]

Ha!! That table is exactly the same as my table and it has the same page number too... Strange, you'd think it would be different... On the back side of your page, page 63, I can see the same drawing of the measuring gauge as in my manual. I bet if you measure it with a ruler it will be 17mm. Which is right? The table or the gauge? Of course, dumb me, I never thought the fuel level reference in the table was for the float height but if it is where do you measure from? The gauge on the previous page has to measure it from the lip of the float chamber..

My manual is a reproduction from a scan so I won't count on measuring the illustration and I wouldn't think it would be properly scaled in any case. If you take a look at Page 63, Fig 3. 143, you can see that "H" is the where you measure from. From the notch on the carb body...

 

[KHSE]

My manual is a reproduction from a scan so I won't count on measuring the illustration and I wouldn't think it would be properly scaled in any case. If you take a look at Page 63, Fig 3. 143, you can see that "H" is the where you measure from. From the notch on the carb body...

@Troy My manual is an original. Maybe the figure with the gauge wasn't meant to be accurate but representative of how to make a gauge using the number from the table.

 

[KHSE]

Nothing much exciting to report. Been ordering stuff.

New headers from Thailand are here already and David Silver Mufflers are on their way. I'm following @Troy except I'm wondering how I might get the collars off the headers. @Troy left the collars on, cut the headers shorter, and shortened the mufflers. I'd rather not cut the mufflers if I don't have to. While doing the exhaust system was originally a longer term project, the lack of a center stand and getting access to the drain plug with the Hooker Headers in the way is pushing me to do it sooner...

I worked out my electrical gremlins. Spent time with a multimeter while looking at the wiring diagram and scratching my head. Broken wires, dirty contacts. It all seems to work now - brake lights, headlights. Still no neutral light. I'll get at the neutral switch when I take on the starter motor. I have been reading threads about replacing the rectifier. I see where people have replaced their rectifier/voltage regulator. As far as I can see the CB450 K0 doesn't have a voltage regulator. Be good to have one though...

Need to do something about the air filters. I think they are original. I don't remember ever changing them. Of course they are NLA. I thought I saw threads on replacing the paper in them but seem to have lost track of those threads. Anyone got any better ideas on how to replace them but keep things looking original?

Still haven't started the engine. Have to clean the gas tank, put the carbs back on, and change the oil. Getting closer though. Have some Deox-C and Atom Mac coming Monday. I hope the stuff doesn't eat through the tank...

 

[ancientdad]

New headers from Thailand are here already and David Silver Mufflers are on their way. I'm following @Troy except I'm wondering how I might get the collars off the headers. @Troy left the collars on, cut the headers shorter, and shortened the mufflers. I'd rather not cut the mufflers if I don't have to.

Look closely at the ring (collar) near the end of the header pipe, there should (might) be spot welds holding it on the pipe. If so, just drill the spot welds until the ring comes free.

I have been reading threads about replacing the rectifier. I see where people have replaced their rectifier/voltage regulator. As far as I can see the CB450 K0 doesn't have a voltage regulator.

No, the earlier models didn't have a regulator. And the early rectifier has screw terminals instead of spades. @jensen showed what he used to connected his here - https://www.vintagehondatwins.com/forums/threads/1967-cb450-k0-resuscitation.12545/#post-158495

Need to do something about the air filters. I think they are original. I don't remember ever changing them. Of course they are NLA. I thought I saw threads on replacing the paper in them but seem to have lost track of those threads. Anyone got any better ideas on how to replace them but keep things looking original?

You can literally soak the paper filters to try to gently soak loose/wash the dirt off cut the paper elements (but let them fully air dry before using them) or cut the paper off and glue some green Unifilter foam onto the frames - https://unifilter.com/online-catalog/accessories/

 

[KHSE]

No, the earlier models didn't have a regulator. And the early rectifier has screw terminals instead of spades. @jensen showed what he used to connected his here -

Ya, I saw @jensen post but for the life of me I don't know why he illustrated the spade connectors. I was waiting until I was ready to do something about the rectifier etc before I bothered him about them.

Look closely at the ring (collar) near the end of the header pipe, there should (might) be spot welds holding it on the pipe. If so, just drill the spot welds until the ring comes free.

I couldn't clearly see spot welds but the ebay guy said they were welded on. There are places where you can clearly see under the ring so they are not 'completely' welded on. Kind of looks like the chrome is holding it on... I'll ponder it further. Don't want to mess up the chrome too much but certainly can just grind the whole thing off. Not sure but I suspect some of the mess would wind up inside the muffler and not be too obvious.

You can literally soak the paper filters to try to gently soak loose/wash the dirt off cut the paper elements (but let them fully air dry before using them) or cut the paper off and glue some green Unifilter foam onto the frames - https://unifilter.com/online-catalog/accessories/

Not sure what you are saying here. I've heard of cleaning them with gas. Are you saying soak them in water to clean them or soak them in water to dissolve the paper to remove the paper and then put a foam filter on the cans? The foam looks like a reasonable way to go.

------

I've been looking for lightbulbs to go in the headlight bucket for the lights in there. Do you know what size socket those things are? I think I have narrowed it down to one of two sizes and figured I could just get both and see what fits...

I found in this website's reference material the link to Vintage Connectors - probably be hitting them up for wire and connectors to sort some wiring and to eventually do the rectifier and regulator. Lots of useful info on this site...

 

[ancientdad]

Ya, I saw @jensen post but for the life of me I don't know why he illustrated the spade connectors. I was waiting until I was ready to do something about the rectifier etc before I bothered him about them.

He explained in that thread, he uses those terminals this way:

Buy one of these, cut off the ones you don't need, bore out the hole, and screw the eyelets to the plug. Use a shrink tube for safety

He means, trim off the parts of the terminal you won't use, then enlarge the existing hole in the spade part of the terminal and use a sheet metal screw or small machine screw with nut and washer to attach the Honda wiring eyelets to, and heat-shrink the open areas to prevent shorts. Then the spade part of the terminals can plug into the aftermarket rec/reg unit plug.

Not sure what you are saying here. I've heard of cleaning them with gas. Are you saying soak them in water to clean them

You can, it's been done. A long soak in soapy water with a little bit of gentle agitation can soak loose a lot of dust and dirt, then let them fully air dry before using them again. But the simlest way is to cut off the paper and glue Unifilter foam on the frames.

I found in this website's reference material the link to Vintage Connectors - probably be hitting them up for wire and connectors to sort some wiring and to eventually do the rectifier and regulator. Lots of useful info on this site...

Vintage Connections (and Sparck Moto as well, same owner) sell quality wiring and terminals for these bikes, just like original equipment.

 

[KHSE]

Okay, I get it now what @jensen was saying... Thanks!

Anybody recognize this thing? It was in my box of Bomber bits but I'm not sure what the heck it is. Doesn't even remind me of any Austin Healey or MGB parts:

 

[jensen]

It's obviously a transmission gear with worn dogs, I guess ? Seems a little small for a bomber, what is the ID and OD ?

 

[jensen]

Okay, I get it now what @jensen was saying... Thanks!

Thanks, AD, for the explanation. You will see that the modern rec / voltage regulate uses probably spade male connectors, so I provided a solution for not having to cut the original wiring with the colored tubes. If you look closely, the tube color corresponds to the color of the connection at the original rectifier.

 

[KHSE]

@jensen, OK, that dim little light bulb in the back of my head is getting brighter... @ancientdad had previously directed me towards Sparck Moto Rectifier/Regulators and looking at them, yes, they appear to use spade type connectors inside of a plastic plug. From past experience, I guess I can free the spade connectors from the plug unit that is connected to the regulator and then, as you suggest, affix spade connectors to my eyelets and get things all hooked up, shrink-wrapping the junctions.

While we are on the rectifier/regulator topic, I have puzzled over how the original alternator/rectifier system works and how the addition of a new rectifier/voltage regulator would be wired in and function. I have enough of an understanding of electronics to get me into trouble and make me scratch my head over this. There are 6 coils in the alternator, 2 pairs wired in series and then paralleled with the remaining two in series and tacked onto the end in series with the other four. A blue wire goes to one side of the rectifier bridge, from between the parallel set and the final two in series. A yellow wire goes to the opposite side of the rectifier bridge from the end of the series. Those two wires I can understand. But what I puzzle over is that the yellow wire bifurcates before the rectifier and heads over to the ignition switch. Also there's a pink wire that heads from the opposite end (opposite of the yellow wire) of the alternator coil set and goes directly to the ignition switch. What does the ignition switch do with the pink and yellow wires? Join them? Send them to ground? Send them to +12V?

Leaving the electrons, how about the starter motor... Since I have been waiting for bits to arrive I thought I'd see if the starter motor works. I tried testing it with my battery charger, just touching the charger terminal to the starter terminal. My 10 amp charger just gave a small spark and no motor movement. I didn't think it wise to push my luck and hook up a car battery to it because if the motor is seized it could burn out. So I tried to remove the starter motor without taking the left crankcase cover off. The starter motor is a longer term project so I didn't want to mess with the crankcase cover, etc, yet. There is no sprocket on the starter motor since all that was removed when the starter clutch disintegrate 50 years ago. I removed the two bolts holding the starter motor to the crankcase and tried to wiggle the starter motor out but no luck. It won't budge. I thought the only thing holding it in was an o-ring but, while it wiggles a bit, it is pretty firmly in there. Any thoughts other than just leave it alone for now?

I took off the hooker headers and drained the oil. The oil looked pretty good, smelled OK. No major debris in the oil. I got some Valvoline 10W-40 oil, non synthetic. Will put that in when my new drain plug seal comes tomorrow. It seems that the only motorcycle oil these days is either 10W-40 or 20W-50. Why is that?

I test fit the new headers. They seem to fit just fine. The right one is trickier than the left because the brake pedal gets in the way a bit. What exhaust gaskets are best? I had used copper ones with the Hooker headers but there seem to also be 'softer' ones as substitutes??

Well, that's probably already too much for people to want to read...