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So I went and looked at new bikes…

teebo

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2021
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Location
Oklahoma City
Buddy of mine has been talking about getting a vintage bike and I’ve been helping him look. But he’s not really a restoration type of guy. So he needs one in excellent shape to start with.

I suggested he at least look at new bikes since he really seems to like BMWs. He’s also short and I wanted him to at least sit on a bike of different sizes. Personally, I think he’d be happier on a smaller bike.

There is a European-centric place in the city. BMW, Triumph, Royal Enfield, Ducati.

A couple of the BMW NineT’s weren’t bad. But they are all so huge. Mostly 1000cc+.

I have to admit though… I am rather fond of the Ducati Scrambler. It was a miniature bike however. Just 800cc. Practically a kids bike. ;-)

Is still rather sink that $12k in a vintage restoration. But if I was in the market for a new bike? Maybe.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
Engine sizes are crazy nowadays. So are most seat heights, aside from cruisers.

I think the big engines reflect the US market- motorcycles are essentially a luxury, so those buying them are not interested in smaller, practical, economical motorcycles. They want an ego object with big speed, and/or the latest style. They don't want to drop 13K-20K or much more, only to have someone make fun of their "little" bike.
 
I’ve had bigger. I guess I’m over that.

That Ducati Scrambler, even at 800cc was not much heavier than my CB350. One of the reasons I liked it. Very much a modern bike, but just felt more minimal.

Heck. There was a 2500cc Triumph Rocket3. I mean, holy cow.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
If he isn't a licenced bike operator presently, as a suggestion I would have him take the course first. Mainly to give him a chance out there on the road with some idea and skills for riding and safety. The other benefit is it will help him decide if motorcycling is for him. The bikes used in the course in Canada are 250cc versions, so small enough to get your feet wet.

The new bikes now with 500-800cc are much better in handling and braking, yet are much more powerful than the stuff your working on presently. These bikes are up to 100HP out of that smaller motor category. Better left to an experience rider, not a beginner IMO.

If he rode years ago, it is a different world out there now.
 
If he isn't a licenced bike operator presently, as a suggestion I would have him take the course first. Mainly to give him a chance out there on the road with some idea and skills for riding and safety. The other benefit is it will help him decide if motorcycling is for him. The bikes used in the course in Canada are 250cc versions, so small enough to get your feet wet.

The new bikes now with 500-800cc are much better in handling and braking, yet are much more powerful than the stuff your working on presently. These bikes are up to 100HP out of that smaller motor category. Better left to an experience rider, not a beginner IMO.

If he rode years ago, it is a different world out there now.

This is exactly what I’ve been telling him.

He wants it for city and country. There is no need at all for all that power. They are just harder to handle.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
Triumph makes a nice scrambler. Have a riding friend that has a sidecar rig that he originally had hooked to a HD. I was riding a CB350 at higher rpms ... will leave it at that .... and with a person in the sidecar he was watching my tail light get smaller and smaller. He bought a Rocket Three to replace the HD and it more than levelled the playing field.

I discourage people from buying vintage bikes especially if they are casual riders who want to go to the garage, hop on,hit the starter and go. I get frustrated with my vintage bikes sometimes and am happy to have a fuel injected 1150 cc bike that is basically always ready to go and takes me along in comfort and relative safety. Does it give me the s--t a-- grin the CL350 does? No. But it does make me happy over many miles.
 
Triumph makes a nice scrambler. Have a riding friend that has a sidecar rig that he originally had hooked to a HD. I was riding a CB350 at higher rpms ... will leave it at that .... and with a person in the sidecar he was watching my tail light get smaller and smaller. He bought a Rocket Three to replace the HD and it more than levelled the playing field.

I discourage people from buying vintage bikes especially if they are casual riders who want to go to the garage, hop on,hit the starter and go. I get frustrated with my vintage bikes sometimes and am happy to have a fuel injected 1150 cc bike that is basically always ready to go and takes me along in comfort and relative safety. Does it give me the s--t a-- grin the CL350 does? No. But it does make me happy over many miles.

This is why I steered him to new bikes. Because guess who he’s going to call? Lol.

But then I’m frustrated with the sheer size and power of new bikes. Even for myself.

I hadn’t looked at new bikes in some time. It was a fun trip though. The store was pretty busy too.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
A friend who rotates through new bikes had a deposit on a Svartpilen 401 with the provision he could cancel once seeing the bike and he did cancel after sitting on it.

He just purchased and got an Enfield Classic ... https://www.royalenfield.com/in/en/motorcycles/classic-350/

He has ridden one of their 650's and was impressed enough to lay down money for the 350. Haven't gotten a ride report yet.

Used to enjoy getting my GL1800 to dance ... larger ladies like to dance ... lol Helped with upgraded suspension but opened up a few eyes out on the road.

On the other hand the turbocharged Suzuki I had a chance to ride years ago still can make me get the shivers ....
 
I have no interest in a new bike. I enjoy the process of digging a perfectly good motorcycle (or scooter) out of the carcass of a machine that has suffered through decades of American attitude that a motorcycle is something you dispose of when it doesn't run right or you are just bored with it. Any jerk can buy a new bike and crash it or neglect it until it's called junk. Then a wacko like me buys it, cleans and adjusts and repairs it, and for peanuts I get to ride, too. Except at that point the machine and I know each other, so rides are a cooperative adventure.
 
I have no interest in a new bike. I enjoy the process of digging a perfectly good motorcycle (or scooter) out of the carcass of a machine that has suffered through decades of American attitude that a motorcycle is something you dispose of when it doesn't run right or you are just bored with it. Any jerk can buy a new bike and crash it or neglect it until it's called junk. Then a wacko like me buys it, cleans and adjusts and repairs it, and for peanuts I get to ride, too. Except at that point the machine and I know each other, so rides are a cooperative adventure.

Well that’s my feeling too. The new bikes don’t trigger enough emotion. But I can see how they’d still be fun to ride.

But that’s also because I truly love working on them.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
. . . Any jerk can buy a new bike and crash it or neglect it until it's called junk. . .

Not quite in the spirit of motorcycling camaraderie to label new bike buyers as 'any jerk'. And we don't all crash them and neglect them!

Some of us have an emotional passion that extends to 'new' bikes as well as old. Mine, for instance, are serviced regularly - with dealer service book completion - are not crashed or dropped, and maintained in a temperature controlled environment on battery tender.

Any 'wacko' who might one day have the fortune of buying (or inheriting) any of my bikes will be faced with nothing other than emotion, excitement and enjoyment!

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If he rode years ago, it is a different world out there now.

I can relate to that. With a 30 year hiatus in my biking career, wobbling back onto the scene on a used Kawasaki GPz305 ( essentially a CB250 clone in the engine department ), I nearly threw in the towel there and then. Back in the day, when Morris Marinas were modern cars, folks drove at 45-50mph and braked for corners even at that speed, so a CB175 could easily outpace them.

30 years later, little shopping hatchbacks can go at 100mph, with brakes and handling to match, are driven in a manner to suit. And there's lots more on the road.

25 years after returning, I'm glad that I persevered, but I learned a few hard lessons along the way.

Regarding modern bikes, the current generation of 750-800 twins from Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha et al, appear to be affordable and suitable for a returning rider, as was my Hornet back in '99.
 
It isn't the new bikes. It isn't the new cars. It is the cell phones that present the greatest danger to motorcyclists.
 
It isn't the new bikes. It isn't the new cars. It is the cell phones that present the greatest danger to motorcyclists.

Or now the new entertainment screens in vehicles too! Like that motorcycle saying goes "Ride with awareness... like everyone else is out to kill you!"

Cell phone use for a vehicle in motion fine in Ontario used to be $105. if you were caught. It now is $450.... pretty cheap to take a life or maim someone on a bike or in a car.
 
The emotional "want" to buy a new bike, even if I could afford it, just isn't there for me unless it's something retro. The CB1100 is really attractive to me, the RE 650 Interceptor like Alan F has also and to some extent the Z900 Kawasaki too (though it suffers from a bit more of the modern look than I'd like). Other than those, a few Triumphs maybe... but the rest of the modern styled bikes do not move me visually at all. I just checked out the Husqvarna link above and it's the same thing. The whole jacked-up rear suspension thing with the "remote" rear fender just destroys the look of the new bikes IMO. It's like they threw this well-designed high-performance bike frame and driveline together and then thought "oh yeah, we need to figure out the rear end of it" later and just stuck something together with no regard to how it looks, only functions. Performance has always been a factor for me and modern bikes have it in spades, a new 500 to 600 is probably as fast as anything I've ever ridden previously regardless of size, but if the looks don't make me want them then none of it matters.
 
Other drivers are a big problem especially with the modern distractions. I am so tired of being behind someone at a stop light and they are on their phone at a green light. And I know they are the same way at intersections or crossing the centerline because they are texting.

I do like some of the new bikes. However, I don’t see a single Honda that I like. Though I recognize their sport bikes are sought after. With that said… apparently there is a CL coming. Not in the us yet. Doesn’t look bad.

I’ve been trying to steer my buddy to a smaller retro style. My point is all that extra power and weight takes additional skill. And it’s not when things are going well that it’s the problem. It’s the oh s@$t moments. Smaller bikes are just easier for the beginner or rusty.

But he’s charged up by some of the newer ones. I get it.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
While I agree driver distraction is an increasing factor for anyone on the road if you look at Motorcycle Accident Statistics we as motorcyclists are our own worst enemy. Not being licensed/lack of training, excess speed, driving under the influence .... and even MC riders using their own multimedia and cell phones ....

Scariest thing I ever did was a group MC charity ride ....
 
Scariest thing I ever did was a group MC charity ride ....

Yeah, I've only been on a couple group rides and that was enough for me. Too many aren't as experienced as they think they are, or simply ride with a different "style" than you do with respect to how they react (or over-react) to certain situations. Having been a bit adventurous in my youth and experienced a few minor car and bike crashes actually helps better prepare you for some future situations, and many ride and/or drive like they've never experienced anything but completely normal moments on the road. While having zero accidents is a badge of honor to a certain extent, it also means that when something does go sideways you've never been there before and often don't have a clue what to do.
 
Smaller new bike wise the Kawasaki w800 is a good one to look at, going for that retro modern vibe
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Sent from my motorola razr (2020) using Tapatalk
 
Smaller new bike wise the Kawasaki w800 is a good one to look at, going for that retro modern vibe
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Sent from my motorola razr (2020) using Tapatalk

Not bad. He does have an emotional tinge to his likes though.

I get it. Logic would indicate a modern bike has a lot of advantages. They just don’t scratch that itch in all the same ways.

He’s an adult. He will get what he loves. In the end, this is a luxury for most of us. I certainly don’t need a bike to survive or make a living.

I’ll be a good friend and start hammering on training and point out viable alternatives. I do worry about him hopping on a 100+ HP beast. At least he’s not having a complete midlife crisis and looking this 200+ HP Ducati I was just reading about. Lol.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
What am I saying?

I should start him harder toward vintage. Knowing that in 2-3 years he’ll sell it. I wouldn’t mind a BMW R75 or R90/6. And I’ll know everything about it.

And if he doesn’t I’ll still have a riding buddy.

That’s called win-win folks. ;-)


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
Teebo... good on you for pushing the training aspect, as noted above that is important, yet as an adult he will choose his own path there.

I ride with a group every Wed that is as few as 6 up to 12+, fortunately we are old farts with lots of riding experience, yet s**t happens. I feel comfortable with that group, yet I would never do a group ride for a charity or other large event. Just too many different variables and riders for my comfort level in that situation, even though the charity part is a good thing.

To me the downside of a new bike when you have a stable of vintage bikes is what I see in our club. The old guys ride the new bike and then rarely ride the vintage bike anymore. I fear I would do the same thing, as it is easy and no worries of a breakdown, plus modern brakes and suspension.

We have a Vintage Mileage trophy for the most miles in a season, that I have won numerous years because many ride their modern bikes more than the vintage ones.

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Not quite in the spirit of motorcycling camaraderie to label new bike buyers as 'any jerk'. And we don't all crash them and neglect them!

The term "some jerk" refers to the crashing and neglecting, not the buying. I love the people who buy them, I'm just too cheap to do that and, in truth, I enjoy the problem solving of repair and rebuilding at least as much as the riding, if not more. If I insulted you I certainly apologize - that wasn't what I meant to do.
 
The term "some jerk" refers to the crashing and neglecting, not the buying.

No, not at all. The statement, 'Any jerk can buy a new bike,' is the head subject of the sentence. The subsequent clauses become secondary. The derogatory term 'jerk' therefore applies equally to the buying, crashing, and neglecting.
. . . Any jerk can buy a new bike and crash it or neglect it until it's called junk. . .

I feel ashamed that any reader (member or non-member) who buys a new bike, or, through no fault of his or her own, crashes it, should be tainted with the term 'jerk'.

Nevertheless, I appreciate and accept your apology.(y)
 
^^^Considering how brutal people on social media can be these days, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it being taken the wrong way. And few sport bike enthusiasts/owners will read anything from this forum either. But I do understand your point.
 
I rode the W800 in 2021 and it checked all my checkboxes. Japanese fuel injected reliability, smaller size, retro vibe, nimble handling, comfortable (for me) riding position, shiny chrome good looks. The blue color available that year was the inspiration for my daughter's paint job on my CM450e.

But you're right, he will buy what he loves, and it's all part of the process.
 
Kawasaki’s website for the w800 also says it has an “assist and slipper clutch.” Say what? It’s claimed to reduce the needed amount of clutch pull (the assist part) and smooth out the effect of engine braking (the slipper part). The website mentions “cams” and I assumed those must be hydraulically driven and electronically controlled to provide precise activation. Turns out it’s entirely mechanical and essentially relies on sliding wedges within the clutch assembly. Yamaha has a good video that shows how it works. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agTJDXsYIr0

These assist and slipper clutches have been included on many large displacement bikes for several years. It’s trickling down to smaller bikes. Honda’s cb300 added it in 2022.

It’s refreshing to know that engineers can still create a useful device for motorcycles that doesn’t rely on electronic sensors and black boxes.
 
They made a W800 Cafe which I like a bit better. Not a bad looking bike at all.

92280a2b497714b6aaf2d5f5ceea9659.jpg



‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
I have looked at but not ridden the Triumph Thruxton and its a pretty sweet bike. a little more cafe style than i like but otherwise a nice candidate if i ever decide to get a modern bike, (not likely).
 
Another nice option is this beauty, the Moto Guzzi V7 Special
lowered seat accessory available for the vertically challenged too..

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I went to look at a new Triumph scrambler, I guess it's ok , but I just couldn't get past the look of the black rims and the exhaust mounted on the wrong side.
 
Teebo, take your friend 150 miles north to Wichita and buy Ratchet's CB77. If he doesn't want to work on that bike, bring him to my house to buy my CB77 and I will buy the one in Wichita. It can't be that difficult to get into a vintage twin.
 
Teebo, take your friend 150 miles north to Wichita and buy Ratchet's CB77. If he doesn't want to work on that bike, bring him to my house to buy my CB77 and I will buy the one in Wichita. It can't be that difficult to get into a vintage twin.

That sounds like a great solution.
 
Vintage versus new.
You have to watch this to the end to get the surprise opinion.

 
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No arguments as to which is the best looking of those two bikes, the CB360 is still a looker after all those years. Pity about the 250 version, too fat, too slow, too thirsty ....
 
Teebo, take your friend 150 miles north to Wichita and buy Ratchet's CB77. If he doesn't want to work on that bike, bring him to my house to buy my CB77 and I will buy the one in Wichita. It can't be that difficult to get into a vintage twin.

Oh he wants a vintage bike. He doesn’t want to restore one though. He’s ok with learning how to do maintenance.

This is why I’ve been pushing him toward new.

I’d probably enjoy working on his bike. He’d probably compensate me. But I have my own projects. Lol.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
If money wasn't an issue, and I wanted a warranty and reliability, my money would be on the Kawasaki W800 for a classic ride.
I love my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S all except for the limited rear suspension.
I haven't driven one but a Z650RS or the Z900RS are on my bucket list.
 
If money wasn't an issue, and I wanted a warranty and reliability, my money would be on the Kawasaki W800 for a classic ride.
I love my 2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S all except for the limited rear suspension.
I haven't driven one but a Z650RS or the Z900RS are on my bucket list.

I really like the W800. A modern retro bike feels like cheating. With a hot blonde.


‘69 CB350
‘68 CB450K0
 
Any jerk can buy a new bike and crash it or neglect it until it's called junk

Just returning to this comment for a moment. In the UK, there's a fairly recently introduced scheme called Personal Car Purchase (PCP), basically a way of purchasing a new car or bike on the 'never never', just pay a small deposit, followed by small monthly repayments, for 3-5 years, at the end of which the 'buyer' either pays a huge balloon payment to clear the debt, uses the vehicle as a deposit on a new vehicle, or simply walks away.

The dealers love this as it makes shifting new metal so much easier.

To my mind, this scheme could easily attract the sort of person who neglect essential oil changes, thrash the engine, etc, knowing that the vehicle would still be running OK at the end of their tenure, passing on the problems caused by neglect to a future owner.
 
Just returning to this comment for a moment. In the UK, there's a fairly recently introduced scheme called Personal Car Purchase (PCP), basically a way of purchasing a new car or bike on the 'never never', just pay a small deposit, followed by small monthly repayments, for 3-5 years, at the end of which the 'buyer' either pays a huge balloon payment to clear the debt, uses the vehicle as a deposit on a new vehicle, or simply walks away.

The dealers love this as it makes shifting new metal so much easier.

To my mind, this scheme could easily attract the sort of person who neglect essential oil changes, thrash the engine, etc, knowing that the vehicle would still be running OK at the end of their tenure, passing on the problems caused by neglect to a future owner.

Sounds a lot like leasing a car here in the US, though "small" monthly payments are relative to the payment amount if you bought the vehicle. I leased a car once, an '86 Monte Carlo SS fully loaded except for t-tops, which at the time listed for about $16,000 to $17,000 US. I paid zero down, they delivered the car to my house, and I paid $315 a month for 2 years, then gave it back with about 20,000 miles on it. I ran the car hard at times but always did regular maintenance, and it was in need of rear tires and very little else when I turned it in. Still not the best value, but with interest rates around 15% to 17% at the time it was much cheaper than buying the car outright. I have to laugh when current lease programs are shown in commercials at $3000 or more down and payments of $500 or higher just to borrow the vehicle for 2 to 3 years, not a value anymore.
 
https://www.motorcycledaily.com/202...r-cylinder-supersport-with-16000-rpm-redline/

Under 400cc engine .... reminds me of an RZ350 that I've always called a Hooligan bike .... probably won't be a oh I wanna buy that bike reaction here ... lol

It's a "yeah, no" for me from a visual standpoint, but modern bikes are stupid fast for their size. Man, 70 hp out of a 400cc engine at 16,000 rpm. It would almost be like riding one of Honda's small GP engines back in the day though probably a lot easier to ride, not so "peaky". That part is pretty cool, it's the styling (that never seems to change anymore) that I just can't abide by.
 
Hey Teebo, If your friend is still interested in a vintage bike I may be ready to let one of these go to a new home. The 450 is still original except for mufflers, rubbers on foot pegs and tires. The 350 was restored by me a few years ago. These pictures are 5 or so years old but the bikes still look the same, maybe a little dusty. The fairing on the 350 can be removed also. There is a build thread of the 350 and more pics of the 450 on the other site with same user name I believe.
I may also be able to deliver as I will be going to Abilene, TX probably toward the end of March.

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Hey Teebo, If your friend is still interested in a vintage bike I may be ready to let one of these go to a new home. The 450 is still original except for mufflers, rubbers on foot pegs and tires. The 350 was restored by me a few years ago. These pictures are 5 or so years old but the bikes still look the same, maybe a little dusty. The fairing on the 350 can be removed also. There is a build thread of the 350 and more pics of the 450 on the other site with same user name I believe.
I may also be able to deliver as I will be going to Abilene, TX probably toward the end of March.

I am currently restoring a CB450 just like yours. Nice bike. What kind of a value do you put on it? I'll need to insure it soon enough.
 
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