1969 CL175 replacement seat cover.

[Scotthonda]

Hi, I live in the uk and I am thinking of buying a 1969 honda Cl175, it’s in quite good condition but needs a new seat cover. It’s quite hard to find a replacement for the cl175 and would like to know if one from the cb175 range would fit.
Atb
peter

[Richard Pitman]

A CB174 K4 cover would be approximately the right length, the later K6 seat is shorter, to fit with the longer tank on those bikes.

Stitching pattern is of course much different. If the original seat cover is still present but in poor condition, I expect someone like these folks could make a new one, using the old as a pattern.

Motorcycle seat covers and Seat restoration specialist, United Kingdom

CB175 K4



CL175, wearing CB pipes

[Scotthonda]

A CB174 K4 cover would be approximately the right length, the later K6 seat is shorter, to fit with the longer tank on those bikes.

Stitching pattern is of course much different. If the original seat cover is still present but in poor condition, I expect someone like these folks could make a new one, using the old as a pattern.

Motorcycle seat covers and Seat restoration specialist, United Kingdom

CB175 K4


CL175, wearing CB pipes

Thanks Richard,that’s really good to know.
It looks very much like the early cb175 k3/4 would be the best option.
many thanks again peter

[Richard Pitman]

Looking at the 1969 CL175, the CB175 K4 seat looks like a good match !

[Scotthonda]

That’s what I thought too.
many thanks again
peter

[ancientdad]

Looking at the 1969 CL175, the CB175 K4 seat looks like a good match !

Ah, the rare (at least in the US) K3 with high front fender and tank that looks like the SL90 from the same year, precursor to the SL175

[Scotthonda]

Thats really interesting to know. I personally haven’t seen this model before with the high front mudguard.

[Richard Pitman]

Did you win the auction ??

[Scotthonda]

Yes I did actually, I got it for £1270 don’t think that was too bad.

[Richard Pitman]

I think that was an excellent buy, especially with that very good exhaust system. Decent wheel rims, and fresh tyres by the look of things. Congratulations !

Might need a rebore, but that's not expensive.

[Scotthonda]

I think that was an excellent buy, especially with that very good exhaust system. Decent wheel rims, and fresh tyres by the look of things. Congratulations !

Might need a rebore, but that's not expensive.

it does look very nice, and I already have a set of pistons and barrels spare lol

[ancientdad]

Thats really interesting to know. I personally haven’t seen this model before with the high front mudguard.

It's the top entry on this page, note the details and how the CL175 went back to looking like the other CL models after the SL175K0 and SL350K0 came out.

https://i.imgur.com/y2ohnPh.jpeg

Sorry for the thread drift.

[Scotthonda]

It's the top entry on this page, note the details and how the CL175 went back to looking like the other CL models after the SL175K0 and SL350K0 came out.

https://i.imgur.com/y2ohnPh.jpeg

Sorry for the thread drift.

Do you have any more information available on the early cl175, it would be very helpful.
many thanks
peter

[ancientdad]

Do you have any more information available on the early cl175, it would be very helpful.
many thanks
peter

Only what is in that thread about identifying your bike, from the Honda ID Guide here. The link to it is also in your Welcome Package of links.

[Scotthonda]

Only what is in that thread about identifying your bike, from the Honda ID Guide here. The link to it is also in your Welcome Package of links.

Thanks acientdad that very interesting, I’ve also got a 1968 Honda cd175a sloper to restore lol.
atb peter

[Scotthonda]

It would appear that this bike isn’t as good as I first thought. It has both air filters,and the tool holder missing, and the engine number starts with SL175 ?. Not really what I expected lol.

[Hondaholic]

Eek!

Tool holder should be easy to obtain on eBay, but the 'transplanted' engine should not present a problem unless you're proceeding to a full, authentic, restoration. Of more importance though. is the 'SL' engine number on your registration document?

I am sometimes nonchalant when buying bikes and it serves as a reminder to me to check numbers - no matter the cost of the bike.

[Scotthonda]

The bike had been imported from America, it has the Nova document, and it’s had the frame and engine number authenticated by the Vintage Honda owners club in the uk, so that I can register the bike in the uk. I have managed to get replacement air filters from David Silver, and bought a tool box holder from Two Wheel spares in the uk. Not to sure why it’s fitted with the SL 175 engine though??

[michaelgj]

Two Wheel Spares (also known as DK Spares) in Stoke probably have what you need - a quick search on their fleabay shop brings up a few toolboxes and air filters ... https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_d...c=1&_nkw=cl175

[Scotthonda]

Two Wheel Spares (also known as DK Spares) in Stoke probably have what you need - a quick search on their fleabay shop brings up a few toolboxes and air filters ... https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_d...c=1&_nkw=cl175

I have managed to get both air filters from Dave Silver, and the tool box from DK spares. Just not sure why it has the sl175 engine fitted?

[ancientdad]

Just not sure why it has the sl175 engine fitted?

The only scenario that makes sense is if someone changed the engine in the US before it was imported to the UK, since I doubt Honda used engines marked SL175 in an early CL175 although I suppose anything is possible when you consider how little information Honda provided about these types of things during production. The SL175 was first sold in the US in May of '70.

[Scotthonda]

The only scenario that makes sense is if someone changed the engine in the US before it was imported to the UK, since I doubt Honda used engines marked SL175 in an early CL175 although I suppose anything is possible when you consider how little information Honda provided about these types of things during production. The SL175 was first sold in the US in May of '70.

judging by the very low engine number (1004—-) it’s possible that this engine was fitted to the early cl175s, and I would have thought that the Honda owners club UK would have mentioned something about it?.
many thanks again for your reply.
atb peter

[ancientdad]

judging by the very low engine number (1004—-) it’s possible that this engine was fitted to the early cl175s, and I would have thought that the Honda owners club UK would have mentioned something about it?.
many thanks again for your reply.
atb peter

If the engine number is 1004xxx, that's not really as low as you might think. Could easily be as high as nearly 5000 units, which makes me suspect someone here in the US swapped the engine prior to importing the bike to the UK and it just wasn't noticed. I know I haven't seen it all with these bikes, we discover new stuff here at VHT all the time, but I'd be pretty sure that Honda didn't do that themselves - but as mentioned, there was a lot Honda did not divulge along the way and sales/production figures was absolutely one of those things.

[Scotthonda]

If the engine number is 1004xxx, that's not really as low as you might think. Could easily be as high as nearly 5000 units, which makes me suspect someone here in the US swapped the engine prior to importing the bike to the UK and it just wasn't noticed. I know I haven't seen it all with these bikes, we discover new stuff here at VHT all the time, but I'd be pretty sure that Honda didn't do that themselves - but as mentioned, there was a lot Honda did not divulge along the way and sales/production figures was absolutely one of those things.

Then that should be no surprise to you then lol.
im sure that this won’t be the only thing that I discover lol.
many thanks again for all your help.
atb
peter

[fxray]

Do you have any more information available on the early cl175, it would be very helpful.
many thanks
peter

I have no information, but I do have some pictures. Ten years ago, I went to look at a '69 CL175 that was listed on the local Craigslist. I decided the seller wanted too much at US $650, and I decided I didn't really want anything smaller than a 350 anyway. Looking back, I didn't realize that this is a fairly rare bike and that the exhaust and side covers alone were probably worth the price. I have been told that the tall, RH side cover is especially hard to find in good condition. In case it will be of any use to you, these are some pictures I took back then.

[Scotthonda]

That looks almost identical to my 69 cl175. The main difference is the right hand side cover is quite small, and the forks have rubber shrouds on them. The main reason that I bought mine was that it was a good price,and quite rare over here to.
many thanks for the pictures.
atb
peter

[Richard Pitman]

Obvious question - does your bike have an electric start, or provision for an electric start ( starter button on the right hand controls and solenoid under the seat ) ?

I can't quite make it out from the photos fxray has posted, but it doesn't appear to have a starter motor fitted, same as an SL175 engine.

This would give us a clue if the bike was like this from new or has had an engine transplant.

[Richard Pitman]

Further to the above, I have an SL175 engine. This did not have an electric start, blind casting where the starter would engage with the engine. Engine number SL175E 2009***.

Presumably means that there were at least 9000+ SL175 engines that year.

Not sure why engine number should have that 'E' after the 175 bit.

[ancientdad]

Further to the above, I have an SL175 engine. This did not have an electric start, blind casting where the starter would engage with the engine. Engine number SL175E 2009***.

Presumably means that there were at least 9000+ SL175 engines that year.

Not sure why engine number should have that 'E' after the 175 bit.

And remember, yours is the K1 on which the engine number (and frame as well) started at 200xxxx with the K0 being 100xxxx. That was my thought, if Honda actually did use early SL175K0 engines in the CL175K3 did they have the electric start available as all CL175s did? This whole thing seems unlikely to me. Though I've not seen everything unusual that Honda did during that era, I've never seen a "substitute" engine in a Honda as-delivered. Now, if it actually does have electric starter installed in the SL175K0 engine... but even then it could have been done by someone after the fact as you've done it yourself.

With respect to the E after the model designation in the engine number, they all had it back then. It's what differentiated the frame numbers from the engine numbers prior to the implementation of the 17 digit VIN. My 450 engine number is CL450E - 50xxxxx

[Scotthonda]

And remember, yours is the K1 on which the engine number (and frame as well) started at 200xxxx with the K0 being 100xxxx. That was my thought, if Honda actually did use early SL175K0 engines in the CL175K3 did they have the electric start available as all CL175s did? This whole thing seems unlikely to me. Though I've not seen everything unusual that Honda did during that era, I've never seen a "substitute" engine in a Honda as-delivered. Now, if it actually does have electric starter installed in the SL175K0 engine... but even then it could have been done by someone after the fact as you've done it yourself.

With respect to the E after the model designation in the engine number, they all had it back then. It's what differentiated the frame numbers from the engine numbers prior to the implementation of the 17 digit VIN. My 450 engine number is CL450E - 50xxxxx

Hi all, after having another look at the bike, and the verification documents, my bike is a late 69 CL175 k3 that is fitted with an early Sl175 Engine, Frame number (cl175 4004***, engine number Sl175E-1004***). There’s no starter motor, or starter relay fitted to the bike, but there is a start button on the right handle bar switch gear. The bike also only has a main stand, and no side stand. The frame looks brand new, with the original vin plate attached to the head stock, but I can also see signs of red oxide primer in certain areas, not standard I don’t think??. Unfortunately I have very little information about the bike from the previous owner!!

[ancientdad]

Hi all, after having another look at the bike, and the verification documents, my bike is a late 69 CL175 k3 that is fitted with an early Sl175 Engine, Frame number (cl175 4004***, engine number Sl175E-1004***). There’s no starter motor, or starter relay fitted to the bike, but there is a start button on the right handle bar switch gear. The bike also only has a main stand, and no side stand. The frame looks brand new, with the original vin plate attached to the head stock, but I can also see signs of red oxide primer in certain areas, not standard I don’t think??. Unfortunately I have very little information about the bike from the previous owner!!

Well this has certainly turned out to be a bit of a mystery then. I'm still not convinced that Honda actually used the SL175K0 engine in late CL175K3s but we have no way to validate it one way or another, and I suspect that the verification documents you have may well reflect only the information they had at the time of import to the UK. The lack of sidestand is also odd, and the entry from my Honda ID Guide (for US models only) shows the mounting area for the centerstand but no stand underneath it (seemingly cropped from the picture) and the frame area where the sidestand would be shows an open hole where the sidestand would have been bolted to and pivoted from.

y2ohnPh.jpg

[Richard Pitman]

So it looks as though it has had an engine change at some point in its history. Like you, I'm surprised that the VJMC 'expert' didn't point out the disparity in frame and engine numbers when he did the authenticity letter for the DVLA process. I went to some trouble to source an SL175 engine when I did my build, so the frame and engine numbers would be credible, as I thought that they'd query the CB175 engine I'd originally fitted.

[Scotthonda]

I am also quite surprised about the certificate, but the guy has actually signed it, so I assume that it’s ok. The other strange thing is that it’s only showing 780 miles??

[Hondaholic]

With full respect to all, I wonder there might be a case to answer by some of the importers/exporters of bikes (and cars) who might not be as scrupulous as we might expect? We (UK) have some high profile importers on eBay who bring in container loads of 'barn finds' and 'projects'. I guess that it's inevitable that some shady business (either knowingly or unknowingly) has occurred to bring the vehicles here.

I agree with AD that the more reasonable explanation is that an engine change occurred at some point in USA. That, of course would not be illicit or unusual given the age of these bikes. The bike's then owner might have found the SL motor to be cheap, or merely practical as a like-for-like fit. Granted, as Richard points out, THAT should have been queried during the certification process.

All in all though, idiosyncrasies aside, Scott has a restorable bike (to whatever degree) and these anomalies might hopefully fade into the background.

[Scotthonda]

With full respect to all, I wonder there might be a case to answer by some of the importers/exporters of bikes (and cars) who might not be as scrupulous as we might expect? We (UK) have some high profile importers on eBay who bring in container loads of 'barn finds' and 'projects'. I guess that it's inevitable that some shady business (either knowingly or unknowingly) has occurred to bring the vehicles here.

I agree with AD that the more reasonable explanation is that an engine change occurred at some point in USA. That, of course would not be illicit or unusual given the age of these bikes. The bike's then owner might have found the SL motor to be cheap, or merely practical as a like-for-like fit. Granted, as Richard points out, THAT should have been queried during the certification process.

All in all though, idiosyncrasies aside, Scott has a restorable bike (to whatever degree) and these anomalies might hopefully fade into the background.

Thanks to everyone for their relevant remarks, I have no doubt in my mind that this is an ideal base for a restoration project, the question is would someone offer to buy it knowing it’s background!!!.
many thanks again for all your help.
ATB
peter

[ancientdad]

As a final thought to all this, I would happily buy the bike for the right price were it here and I found it for sale. I remember seeing the CL175K3 come out here as I was going into my second year of bike ownership and I really liked it because other than the SL90 (released in March of '69 and my father bought one) and the SL350K0 (released later in August of '69) it was the only mid-sized bike Honda made that was trending toward the great Motosport styling that was soon to be very popular. Unfortunately, as a kid of not-quite 15 then and with no license or job yet, all I could do was dream... and as a result, it was always a bike I found interesting from my youth. The gas tank, while not exactly the same, is very similar to the SL90 and the high-mounted front fender and open forks with no rubber boots was a departure from the typical Honda styling at the time which made it all the more attractive. To even find one in better than average shape now is a bit amazing and the SL engine would not deter me at all.

So, enjoy your rare find and tell people it came with the early SL175 engine as a point of conversation, and you'll have the paperwork to back it up (regardless however flawed it may be).

[Richard Pitman]

I'd be inclined to look for a CL175 engine with a number in the same range as the frame. Maybe even a non running engine or just a set of crankcases, swap the bits over then get the DVLA to update the V5 accordingly. DK breakers have a couple of CL175 bottom ends with the engine number in the 400 range.

Personally, I'd want the bike to have an electric start. Stalling the engine in traffic with a kick start only bike is a real non starter for me, pun intended.

[ancientdad]

Stalling the engine in traffic with a kick start only bike is a real non starter for me, pun intended.

Agreed on that part, and the SL175 engine didn't even get the primary kickstart like the SL350K1 did so you'd have the additional burden of finding neutral first.