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Thread: Oil Leak After Rebuild Questions

  1. #41
    Senior Member Ribrickulous's Avatar
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    No sweat. Hooking up the chain and rear tire will make this test a heck of a lot easier on you.

    It may still bind a bit if you *only* spin the rear - the mainshaft likes to lead so don’t get discouraged if you run into some small feel issues.

    If it’s 90% of the way there I’d put it all back together and road test it.


    - 1972 CL350
    - 1985 VF700F
    Ed
    1972 CL350 K4
    1985 VF700F

  2. #42
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scootman View Post
    I'm thinking youre probably right...I can go through all the gears while turning the sprocket manually and using a screwdriver to operate the shift drum. but when I use the shifter i can only get it into first and back to neutral with some persuasion though. I dont have a chain connected yet to try that procedure but, I'm thinking maybe it's just the way these constant mesh transmissions work, but I dont really know. But tightening that loose bolt did help so maybe that was the issue? it seems to snap into that star good now, i wasnt seeing that before, also that shift drum has been sitting around in there, maybe it needs to be run and get that oil in there to loosen it up? Ill probably hook up the chain tomorrow and keep trying to figure out... thanks again
    Not to beat a dead broken record here, but in case you don't realize the importance of the shafts moving for proper gear changes in these transmissions, this will help

    (move along, nothing to see here)

  3. #43
    Senior Member Scootman's Avatar
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    OK, so here's where I'm at, I am observing some play in my shifter linkage which may be adding to my issue. plus the sprocket cover is currently off so the support for the shifter spindle is compromised. But I threw a chain on and spun the wheel while trying to shift with the shifter and it will go into first and into neutral but it will not shift above that with the shifter. however, if I spin the wheel and turn the shift drum with a screwdriver it shifts through all the gears with relatively no issues, a little hang up on 5th but still ok... so i'm thinking maybe the shifter with it bolted to the frame with all the linkage and old clevis pins might be causing too much play to engage? i dont know, i see alot of guys switching from the old style shifter to one that is bolted directly to the shift spindle but not sure why. Maybe these transmission just need to be in motion for them to shift correctly and I'm beating a dead horse...
    1970 Honda CB350 K2
    1971 Honda CB175 K4
    2007 Kymco People 150


  4. #44
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scootman View Post
    Maybe these transmission just need to be in motion for them to shift correctly and I'm beating a dead horse...
    I don't know about the horse, but I do know that both shafts moving is the key to proper shifting with these transmissions. Think about how things are going inside the engine while you're riding - the engine is turning the clutch basket which, when the clutch is engaged, is turning the mainshaft at the same time as the movement of the rear wheel is turning the countershaft... so all shift fork-controlled gears can move and the engagement dogs mesh easily when the shift lever tells the shift drum to turn and move the shift forks involved in moving each gear to engage with another. The reason people replace the linkage shifter (which originally was used to give better leverage to shift the bike) is because the pivot points wear and they get sloppy, adding to the amount of movement it takes to shift the bike. A shifter directly attached to the shift shaft eliminates the linkage slop from long term wear and gives a better feel at the shift lever. Of course, the detent mechanism has to be working smoothly and freely so it doesn't cause any binding in the rotation of the shift drum too.
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  5. #45
    Senior Member Ribrickulous's Avatar
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    I'd say to put the thing back together and get it moving.

    To AD's point, the only downsides to a direct shifter (no linkages) is that there's no fine adjustment in between the splines, and you need a *bit* more oomph to actually shift.

    I put a direct shifter on my bike a few hundred miles ago and have very much gotten used to it. They're like $20 on ebay or 4into1.
    Ed
    1972 CL350 K4
    1985 VF700F

  6. #46
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribrickulous View Post
    They're like $20 on ebay or 4into1.
    Actually less than that - https://4into1.com/gear-shift-lever-...0f-900f-1100f/
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  7. #47
    Senior Member Scootman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ribrickulous View Post
    I'd say to put the thing back together and get it moving.

    To AD's point, the only downsides to a direct shifter (no linkages) is that there's no fine adjustment in between the splines, and you need a *bit* more oomph to actually shift.

    I put a direct shifter on my bike a few hundred miles ago and have very much gotten used to it. They're like $20 on ebay or 4into1.
    That's exactly what I'm going to do. There doesn't seem to be an apparent issue with the shift drum and all the gears are engaging shifting manually, I've tightened that stopper mechanism bolt I can now shift it down to first. Once I get the bike rolling in first gear and all the internals are rotating I'm hoping everything will just fall into place and do what they're supposed to do. I'll look into getting that shifter from 4into1 and I appreciate all the support. Thank you
    1970 Honda CB350 K2
    1971 Honda CB175 K4
    2007 Kymco People 150


  8. #48
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scootman View Post
    That's exactly what I'm going to do. There doesn't seem to be an apparent issue with the shift drum and all the gears are engaging shifting manually, I've tightened that stopper mechanism bolt I can now shift it down to first. Once I get the bike rolling in first gear and all the internals are rotating I'm hoping everything will just fall into place and do what they're supposed to do. I'll look into getting that shifter from 4into1 and I appreciate all the support. Thank you
    And be sure to check back with the final outcome.
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  9. #49
    Senior Member Scootman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    And be sure to check back with the final outcome.
    Well, I hate to admit it but I overlooked an important area when troubleshooting this gear change issue. Turns out I had the wrong angle on the shift joint and it was binding in the slot on the adjustment rod limiting its travel.(see pic) I kept looking to see if it was hitting the pipe and not observing the actual joint end where it was binding. So, I had to readjust the linkage and move the joint to a different spline on the shaft to give me the clearance I needed. once I found that happy spot I spun the rear wheel and she shifted through all gears like it was supposed to. (Don't worry I kicked myself repeatedly) I still think that loose bolt on the stopper mechanism was causing an issue too, so I'm glad I opened it up. So that's why it shifted manually but not with the shifter! LOL

    Since that was solved, I moved to the starter clutch, turns out it is good and the starter is actually making the squealing noise, It was very dirty in there so, I cleaned up the brushes and added some grease to the gears and the noise quieted down but I'm going to have it rebuilt at my local starter/alternator repair shop. I know it's probably easy but I'll support my locals for this one.

    20221126_095929.jpg
    first gear and neutral worked but this is why I couldnt go into second or above.
    1970 Honda CB350 K2
    1971 Honda CB175 K4
    2007 Kymco People 150


  10. #50
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
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    Well, glad you found it but that's yet another thing you could avoid with a straight shift lever. Glad it was something simple but as you mentioned, it did lead you to find the loose bolt in the detent mechanism so that's a plus and saves you another adventure down the road when the bolt falls out and it won't shift in the middle of a ride somewhere. It might have been a good idea to replace the caps, springs and rollers while the starter clutch was apart, it's a typical repair/refresh that you may end up doing later but at least it isn't a difficult fix if/when you have to do it.
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  11. #51
    Senior Member Scootman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    Well, glad you found it but that's yet another thing you could avoid with a straight shift lever. Glad it was something simple but as you mentioned, it did lead you to find the loose bolt in the detent mechanism so that's a plus and saves you another adventure down the road when the bolt falls out and it won't shift in the middle of a ride somewhere. It might have been a good idea to replace the caps, springs and rollers while the starter clutch was apart, it's a typical repair/refresh that you may end up doing later but at least it isn't a difficult fix if/when you have to do it.
    Yeah, that's how I'm looking at it, it led me to find that loose bolt which could have resulted in me being stranded, and that's always a bummer. I will probably replace the starter clutch too, it's still apart and I cant put it back together til the starter is fixed so..
    I think the oversight on the linkage was assuming in the back of my mind that there was something I did wrong with the rebuild. It's my first rebuild of an entire Honda engine, I did the top end on my CB175 but I never rebuilt an entire engine from a pile of parts before. So I'm actually impressed that I got this far without other issues. Up to now, everything has been just minor adjustments, fingers crossed.
    1970 Honda CB350 K2
    1971 Honda CB175 K4
    2007 Kymco People 150


  12. #52
    Senior Member Ribrickulous's Avatar
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    As obnoxious as it is to have gone through all that when the “real” issue was right in front of you, like AD says at least you did find that bolt which would have loosened up over time and made a god awful noise as it rubbed the back of the clutch basket.

    AND, you’ve got some finality to the issue, instead of wondering if you fiddled with/adjusted something just right and if it’ll crop back up again.

    Re: the starter shop the best news there is that they’ll probably have a bunch of spare bits and pieces to help your starter together just right, where a lot of the kits now ship without the planetary gear bushings, and gaskets that are rare too thick so nothing goes back together right.

    It took me a long time fiddling to get mine back together properly.


    - 1972 CL350
    - 1985 VF700F
    Ed
    1972 CL350 K4
    1985 VF700F

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