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Thread: C200, a push rod 90

  1. #41
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilbikek411 View Post
    I like that chain case/ 'chain saver'
    Easy squeezy, just like the owner's manual says for a wheel change. Also, chains and sprockets last many times longer, if kept adjusted, without the road grit acting as an abrasive on the pins and rollers. Pretty sure this has the original chain and sprockets with over 5K miles.

  2. #42
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    Excellent !
    I live in a small apt complex at a busy 4-way intersection run by some group.. and just every once in a while they have a pair of heartless people come out with 2 powerful(Loud & echos between both the 2 small buildings;the walls & windows are so thin,I need hearing 'muffs' while inside)gas leaf 'cannons'/blowers who spend over a half hour blowing every bit of dust,etc. all over everything on this small property.My cycle is parked uncovered and they blast it,including the chain.
    I'm allergic to lots of pollens out here including dust;I see an allergist,shots every month.
    I don't speak Spanish and the two Mexican works 'can't be reached for comment'..

    I run a Diamond USA chain and only lube it when it's dry enough.
    I'd sure like one of those 'chain cases' for it.

  3. #43
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bilbikek411 View Post
    Excellent !
    I live in a small apt complex at a busy 4-way intersection run by some group.. and just every once in a while they have a pair of heartless people come out with 2 powerful(Loud & echos between both the 2 small buildings;the walls & windows are so thin,I need hearing 'muffs' while inside)gas leaf 'cannons'/blowers who spend over a half hour blowing every bit of dust,etc. all over everything on this small property.My cycle is parked uncovered and they blast it,including the chain.
    I'm allergic to lots of pollens out here including dust;I see an allergist,shots every month.
    I don't speak Spanish and the two Mexican works 'can't be reached for comment'..

    I run a Diamond USA chain and only lube it when it's dry enough.
    I'd sure like one of those 'chain cases' for it.
    Bill, you need a cheap nylon cover ($20) on your bike for those leaf blower loonies. Honda's touring bikes of the early -mid sixties came stock with the fully enclosed chain guards. I don't think I ever saw any accessory full chain guards for other bikes. Actually, original guards for these bikes are big bucks on ebay etc. because people would take them off, for whatever reason, and then lose them, hence, rare stuff. on Diamond chains. PJ1 spray chain lube is the good stuff and you don't need to do it very often.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballbearian View Post
    Bill, you need a cheap nylon cover ($20) on your bike for those leaf blower loonies. Honda's touring bikes of the early -mid sixties came stock with the fully enclosed chain guards. I don't think I ever saw any accessory full chain guards for other bikes. Actually, original guards for these bikes are big bucks on ebay etc. because people would take them off, for whatever reason, and then lose them, hence, rare stuff. on Diamond chains. PJ1 spray chain lube is the good stuff and you don't need to do it very often.
    I'm afraid the cover wouldn't keep these guys from blowing sand from the bottom up into and around the bike anyway;they're boneheads and look to be high on something.
    I've got some Golden Spectro chain lube in the large white can,quite a bit left.
    How often do you use PJ1 black? on the bikes you have w/o fully enclosed guards ?

  5. #45
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    How often do you use PJ1 black? on the bikes you have w/o fully enclosed guards ?
    Not sure, maybe 1K miles. Depends how dirty they get. I finally have a garage in my life and more bikes than I can ride, plus I'm a fair weather guy, no commuting in rainstorms. Just keep them adjusted, for sure.
    Last edited by ancientdad; 11.25.22 at 7:37 PM.

  6. #46
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    Mystery loss of compression, like 15lbs. No wonder it wouldn't start. The bike fell over while idling this summer and ran for maybe 5 min. on it's side then wouldn't start. I don't have a clue. Valves open and close.

  7. #47
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballbearian View Post
    Mystery loss of compression, like 15lbs. No wonder it wouldn't start. The bike fell over while idling this summer and ran for maybe 5 min. on it's side then wouldn't start. I don't have a clue. Valves open and close.
    I can't imagine it, but maybe oil loss (splash) to the cylinder caused the bore to run pretty dry and trash the rings? Did it shut off on its own before you found it?

    BTW, don't feel too bad - a former friend who owned 2 CBXs started one of his up one day, left it on choke/high idle, walked across the street to his mother's house and got distracted and came back later to it shut off, the valve cover a golden color, and the plastic dip stick melted... it ran until it overheated and lunched the engine. A 6 cylinder engine.
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  8. #48
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    I can't imagine it, but maybe oil loss (splash) to the cylinder caused the bore to run pretty dry and trash the rings? Did it shut off on its own before you found it?

    BTW, don't feel too bad - a former friend who owned 2 CBXs started one of his up one day, left it on choke/high idle, walked across the street to his mother's house and got distracted and came back later to it shut off, the valve cover a golden color, and the plastic dip stick melted... it ran until it overheated and lunched the engine. A 6 cylinder engine.
    That would be a bad day for sure. It was running (weakly) when I picked it up but died when I tried to rev it. I guess these old push rods aren't indestructible. More engine work foreseen.

  9. #49
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    Well, it is only half a twin and I'm only half as sharp as many here, so it's probably a fair fight. This is what greeted me.



    What would cause an exhaust valve to hyper extend? The push rods were straight. The cam and lifters are in the case next to the crank, so I can't see them, yet.
    I poured gas in the head dome and it gushed right out the exhaust, of course.



    Yeah the ex -valve is bent and it's outer spring is broke.

    The bore looks really good though. Hmmm.

    The oil pump is on the left side and the bike was laying, running on it's right. Could oil starvation cause a valve spring to break? This must have happened at TDC to leave that 1-2mm gash in the piston crown. Calling the Cycle Coroner!

  10. #50
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
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    That's pretty bizarre for an engine with a gear drive camshaft that couldn't jump time. The only thing that occurs to me (and it still doesn't exactly explain the broken valve spring) is the valve adjustments might have been loose enough that on its side, a pushrod slipped out of the rocker arm slightly causing the pushrod to push on the edge of the rocker arm and over-extend and bend the valve (which might also somewhat explain the broken valve spring)... but you'd think it would have bent the pushrod too in the process. Crazy occurrence but at least the repair is simple enough. I know for a fact these engines can survive on splash lube, when I owned my ATC90 (and was a teenage mechanic not thinking about the ramifications) I rode my 3 wheeler in a small parade in Ybor City in Tampa by invitation of the owner of Honda Village where I worked. He was doing some advertising and asked me if I'd ride it in the parade doing wheelies, and we came up with the idea of a wheelie bar with a roller wheel on it so I could just ride along with the front end up endlessly... which I did for probably 20 minutes or more, almost continuously except for each turn in the downtown streets. The 3 wheeler had a cardboard sign tied to the footpeg bar that said "It's a Honda". If a 90 engine was going to destroy itself due to lack of oil, that day should have been the day.
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  11. #51
    Senior Member mike in idaho's Avatar
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    Metal fatigue, sometimes things just break. Some serious wear on those valve seats.
    '66 CL160
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  12. #52
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    That's pretty bizarre for an engine with a gear drive camshaft that couldn't jump time. The only thing that occurs to me (and it still doesn't exactly explain the broken valve spring) is the valve adjustments might have been loose enough that on its side, a pushrod slipped out of the rocker arm slightly causing the pushrod to push on the edge of the rocker arm and over-extend and bend the valve (which might also somewhat explain the broken valve spring)... but you'd think it would have bent the pushrod too in the process. Crazy occurrence but at least the repair is simple enough. I know for a fact these engines can survive on splash lube, when I owned my ATC90 (and was a teenage mechanic not thinking about the ramifications) I rode my 3 wheeler in a small parade in Ybor City in Tampa by invitation of the owner of Honda Village where I worked. He was doing some advertising and asked me if I'd ride it in the parade doing wheelies, and we came up with the idea of a wheelie bar with a roller wheel on it so I could just ride along with the front end up endlessly... which I did for probably 20 minutes or more, almost continuously except for each turn in the downtown streets. The 3 wheeler had a cardboard sign tied to the footpeg bar that said "It's a Honda". If a 90 engine was going to destroy itself due to lack of oil, that day should have been the day.

    Books could be written of all the crazy stuff people have done to these. I was surprised to find the pushrods straight, I've seen chopsticks that are beefier. Who knows, maybe the fatal time came for the spring to break and shock caused it to then fall over.

    This bike was a survivor find that never had the motor stuck and only 5K on it. I think I'm the first to open the top, maybe that's why I was so shocked at no compression because it ran great, 55mph+.

    I could just reassemble from here and see what the compression is (I've never checked) before going in deeper. Funny thing is, I was going to take in the spare cylinder from the spare motor I bought for the frankenbike to bore +1.00mm when I pick up the Dream cylinder this week. I might borrow it's spring, for now, and I found a new valve that is on it's way from Connecticut for cheaper than DSS, but he has springs too.

  13. #53
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike in idaho View Post
    Metal fatigue, sometimes things just break. Some serious wear on those valve seats.
    I think you're right, Mike. Just an odd set of circumstances, maybe. The valves were adjusted 500 miles ago and the intake was just the tiniest bit tighter than the .05mm shop spec. I can't remember what the exhaust was but it felt a little weird now that I think about it. Only the inner spring intact.
    New valves are going in, even the intake was too cupped. I touched up the seat on the exhaust with this cheapy kit I bought a couple years ago. It has 3 angle bits and seems ok for light jobs.

    Last edited by ballbearian; 11.27.22 at 1:20 PM. Reason: forgot pic

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballbearian View Post
    Well, it is only half a twin and I'm only half as sharp as many here, so it's probably a fair fight. This is what greeted me.

    What would cause an exhaust valve to hyper extend? The push rods were straight. The cam and lifters are in the case next to the crank, so I can't see them, yet.
    I poured gas in the head dome and it gushed right out the exhaust, of course.

    Yeah the ex -valve is bent and it's outer spring is broke.

    The bore looks really good though. Hmmm.

    The oil pump is on the left side and the bike was laying, running on it's right. Could oil starvation cause a valve spring to break? This must have happened at TDC to leave that 1-2mm gash in the piston crown. Calling the Cycle Coroner!
    Tom,when you replace the valves,springs(top end work)on this engine and run it around for break-in,it should be all-set for another 50 years
    Last edited by ancientdad; 11.27.22 at 3:26 PM.

  15. #55
    Senior Member ballbearian's Avatar
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    Wish I could dress the old valve faces just to use for some lapping prior to the new valves going in. Here are the seats after cheap-skate cutting.


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