Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Speedometer Question CB 450 K1

  1. #1
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts

    Speedometer Question CB 450 K1

    I want a new speedometer and tach for my 68 restoration project. I notice that some early bikes do not have a trip meter. What year did this change? Were trip meters offered in different years in different markets?
    If I used similar (metal) guages with a trip meter, would it devalue my bike much?

  2. #2
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.21.20
    Location
    Nature Coast, FL
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,659
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,042
    Thanked in
    3,175 Posts
    Moved to DOHC 450 Miscellaneous section.

    I can't recall the exact year and it varied across models, but the tripmeter came along around K3 or K4. I just checked parts fiches for K1 up to K4 and though the picture isn't definitive (or non-existent), the part number for a K3-K4 speedo found as NOS on eBay shows a tripmeter

    https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/ho...chometer-k3-k4

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/203923827183
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  3. #3
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    Thanks for moving it to the right section dad.
    As I evaluate my bike I'm looking at all my options for restoring this bike to an acceptable level without overspending. I know the chrome will clean up to a nice level but will never be "show quality. I'm sure there will be many more questions as I learn about these beautiful machines.

  4. #4
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.21.20
    Location
    Nature Coast, FL
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,659
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,042
    Thanked in
    3,175 Posts
    The differences between the older plastic-bodied gauges and the later metal-bodied versions are significant in visual, and the mounting bracket may have changed as well so it might require some adaptation if you choose to go with later gauges.
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  5. #5
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    My tach appears to be pretty old due to the sun damage and it is metal and rusted, but still might not be original??
    PXL-20221018-210623232.jpg

  6. #6
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.21.20
    Location
    Nature Coast, FL
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,659
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,042
    Thanked in
    3,175 Posts
    I do not believe those are original. I owned a brand new CL450K4 in high school and it had those metal-bodied gauges. The earlier models looked like this, finally found a good picture of them. Note yet another redline for the 450, 9750 rpm

    https://www.bike-urious.com/ending-s...onda-cb450-k1/
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  7. #7
    Senior Member 1969 CL350's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.05.20
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    762
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    377
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    456
    Thanked in
    290 Posts
    The trip odometer appeared on the 350 for the 1971 (K3) model year, so I’d guess that’s when the 450 got one too.
    1969 Honda CL350
    1983 H-D XLX-61 Sportster

  8. #8
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    I do not believe those are original. I owned a brand new CL450K4 in high school and it had those metal-bodied gauges. The earlier models looked like this, finally found a good picture of them. Note yet another redline for the 450, 9750 rpm

    https://www.bike-urious.com/ending-s...onda-cb450-k1/

    The speedo definitely isn't but I wasn't sure about the Tach. they don't match either.

    And are those (in the link) the plastic ones you mentioned?

  9. #9
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.21.20
    Location
    Nature Coast, FL
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,659
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,042
    Thanked in
    3,175 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracks450 View Post
    And are those (in the link) the plastic ones you mentioned?
    Yes, the outer black plastic shell with the clear lens was held onto the gauge internals by melting the edge of the plastic over the metal frame underneath.
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Flyin900's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.27.20
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    575
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    95
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    239
    Thanked in
    176 Posts
    For about a grand Canadian CMSNL has the correct NOS CB450 K1 parts in stock if your willing to spend to make it correct. That is actually a decent price, as an EBay seller wanted $1200.00 Canadian for a NOS speedo for the 1966 CL77 I am restoring presently. I paid a Dutch company about $550 Canadian to restore my 1972 CB350F gauges earlier this year and a US company did my CL77 speedo without replacing the gauge face, since it was NLA, so just a rebuild of the interior for close to $600.00 Canadian all in.

    If your doing a frame up it will cost you to do it correctly, yet that bike has many original parts, so it all depends on how much your willing to spend. Chroming is another option, if you cannot find replacement chrome parts. I can recommend a shop in the GTA or Cambridge that does good work, if there isn't a Northern Ontario option.
    1966 CL77 - 305cc - Gentleman's Scrambler
    1967 CL175K0 - Scrambler #802 engine
    1972 CB350F - Candy Bacchus Olive - Super Sport
    1973 CB350F - Flake Matador Red - Super Sport
    1975 CB400F - Parakeet Yellow - Super Sport
    1976 GL1000 - Goldwing Standard
    1978 CB550K - Super Sport

  11. #11
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    Yes, the outer black plastic shell with the clear lens was held onto the gauge internals by melting the edge of the plastic over the metal frame underneath.

    How did the plastic hold up to sun damage over time?
    Are the plastic ones easy to take apart to rebuild? (I've restored a number of speedos and guages in my time, I just did a 1969 Kawasaki C2ss speedometer a few weeks ago)
    Attachment 18190

  12. #12
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin900 View Post
    For about a grand Canadian CMSNL has the correct NOS CB450 K1 parts in stock if your willing to spend to make it correct. That is actually a decent price, as an EBay seller wanted $1200.00 Canadian for a NOS speedo for the 1966 CL77 I am restoring presently. I paid a Dutch company about $550 Canadian to restore my 1972 CB350F gauges earlier this year and a US company did my CL77 speedo without replacing the gauge face, since it was NLA, so just a rebuild of the interior for close to $600.00 Canadian all in.

    If your doing a frame up it will cost you to do it correctly, yet that bike has many original parts, so it all depends on how much your willing to spend. Chroming is another option, if you cannot find replacement chrome parts. I can recommend a shop in the GTA or Cambridge that does good work, if there isn't a Northern Ontario option.
    Still in the assessment stage, I set up a spreadsheet to keep track of available parts prices (and part numbers). Gauges are something that if I found a nice clean set that are not correct but close, I can put them on and upgrade to correct very easily if my budget allows towards the end of the project.
    As for chroming, none in Northern Ontario so on the bike I did last winter, I tried to get a few shops in Southern Ontario to give me quotes but all 3 said to look elsewhere as it would be too expensive. I know my exhaust down pipes are probably too rusty to re-chrome so if newer pipes can easily be adapted I'll look for a good set to clamp to my original mufflers.

  13. #13
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    I've been doing some research on Speedometers on (of all places) EBay. Without actual part numbers listed, I've downloaded photos of many speedos all listed under CB450. (as well as other bikes) I don't have the years for these and some might be wrong but it would be nice to start a new thread for comparison sake and pin it to the menu.

    First the plastic ones. They seem to have a textured finish on the black outer ring. The outer case is melted to the base. They also have a completely different frame around the top where it meets the bezel.
    h.jpg g.jpg m.jpg n.jpg s-l16sd00.jpg

    And the steel ones. They have a smooth finish, are crimped to the bottom and a crimped formed top ring around the bezel.

    s-l16b00.jpg s-l1600.jpg s-l16e00.jpg
    Last edited by ancientdad; 10.27.22 at 12:24 PM.
    Doug
    2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S Daily driver
    1968 CB450 K1 Hellcat - Restoration Started
    1981 Kawasaki KZ440C - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1974 Kawasaki H1E 500 - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1973 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restomod - Driven - Sold
    1972 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restoration - Driven - Sold

  14. #14
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.21.20
    Location
    Nature Coast, FL
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,659
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,042
    Thanked in
    3,175 Posts
    Though I have not gone through every page of it, there is a section in the back of the 450 FSM detailing the differences between older and newer models.
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  15. #15
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    Though I have not gone through every page of it, there is a section in the back of the 450 FSM detailing the differences between older and newer models.
    450FSM?
    Doug
    2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S Daily driver
    1968 CB450 K1 Hellcat - Restoration Started
    1981 Kawasaki KZ440C - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1974 Kawasaki H1E 500 - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1973 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restomod - Driven - Sold
    1972 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restoration - Driven - Sold

  16. #16
    Administrator LongDistanceRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.22.20
    Location
    Vancouver, Washington USA
    Posts
    7,853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,222
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,448
    Thanked in
    1,919 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracks450 View Post
    Still in the assessment stage, I set up a spreadsheet to keep track of available parts prices (and part numbers). Gauges are something that if I found a nice clean set that are not correct but close, I can put them on and upgrade to correct very easily if my budget allows towards the end of the project.
    As for chroming, none in Northern Ontario so on the bike I did last winter, I tried to get a few shops in Southern Ontario to give me quotes but all 3 said to look elsewhere as it would be too expensive. I know my exhaust down pipes are probably too rusty to re-chrome so if newer pipes can easily be adapted I'll look for a good set to clamp to my original mufflers.
    Old exhaust systems and re-chroming are generally not done because the carbon build up in the pipes/mufflers contaminate the chrome bath. The solution to that I think would be to braze/solder caps or plugs on the ends that after they are chromed get melted off. Something like copper with plumbers solder I think would work.
    Jim O'Brien
    1979 CM400T aka the Roadbike, 1978 CB400T1 semi restored, 1972 CL350K4 restoration and the 1971 SL350K1 disaster zone.
    Plus 2 SL350K0's , 2 SL350K1's, 1 CL350K0 and 1 CL350K1 waiting for space and time
    Contact: 408-239-9580 or [email protected]

  17. #17
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.21.20
    Location
    Nature Coast, FL
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,659
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,042
    Thanked in
    3,175 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tracks450 View Post
    450FSM?
    450 Factory Service Manual

    FSM for K1-K7 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8R...7OvbfZIuTfFNHg

    Model changes K1-K7 - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8R...haRX-eMjUrhBzw
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  18. #18
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    Back to the speedometers. I see some from early 350's and 450's.
    Here is a couple sets on EBay seeing the Redline at 10500 I'm thinking its for a 350. But if the physical size is the same then it might be an easy option until I can find correct, affordable gauges.
    d.jpg
    or these, but they are steel ones
    t.jpg
    Doug
    2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S Daily driver
    1968 CB450 K1 Hellcat - Restoration Started
    1981 Kawasaki KZ440C - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1974 Kawasaki H1E 500 - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1973 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restomod - Driven - Sold
    1972 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restoration - Driven - Sold

  19. #19
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.21.20
    Location
    Nature Coast, FL
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,659
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,042
    Thanked in
    3,175 Posts
    The first pair would work fine and would be more period-correct for your bike (aside from the redline) but the mounting might require some modification based on the angle of the studs on the bottom of the gauges. Not sure the bracket attached to them in the picture would work, the width of the forks is probably different between the 350s of the era and your 450 though the design of the forks is similar (bolt-through top bridge instead of the later style clamp-type). The second pair of gauges actually look like early 450 versions, I recall the bluish face color and 9750 redline
    (move along, nothing to see here)

  20. #20
    Senior Member 1969 CL350's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.05.20
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    762
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    377
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    456
    Thanked in
    290 Posts
    The first pail look like 1970 (K2) CB/CL350 units - speedometer goes to 110 and redline is 10,500. They have flat mounts and cable connections, not angled.
    1969 Honda CL350
    1983 H-D XLX-61 Sportster

  21. #21
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    These come off a '71 450, look clean enough to repaint and polish, are located here in Canada and come at a real good price. For now I think I will buy them and once I can get correct ones maybe resell them.
    IMG-3218.jpg
    Doug
    2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S Daily driver
    1968 CB450 K1 Hellcat - Restoration Started
    1981 Kawasaki KZ440C - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1974 Kawasaki H1E 500 - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1973 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restomod - Driven - Sold
    1972 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restoration - Driven - Sold

  22. #22
    Senior Member jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    06.01.20
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    719
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    175
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    426
    Thanked in
    286 Posts
    Nice pair, but why on earth would someone switch odo and speedo placing ? To my knowledge, Canadian speedo's are in km/hr, this one is in mls/hr ?
    <a href=https://www.vintagehondatwins.com/forums/image.php?u=26&type=sigpic&dateline=1663782826 target=_blank>https://www.vintagehondatwins.com/fo...ine=1663782826</a>
    CB450's (K0's, K1's, K2's), CB72'61-'67, all years, C77'64, CB400f '74, Kawasaki KR1-s '90

  23. #23
    Senior Member Flyin900's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.27.20
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    575
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    95
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    239
    Thanked in
    176 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jensen View Post
    Nice pair, but why on earth would someone switch odo and speedo placing ? To my knowledge, Canadian speedo's are in km/hr, this one is in mls/hr ?
    Canadian speedos only became kilometers in the late 70's around 1978, or thereabouts. Prior to that we were in MPH, so all motorcycle gauges from prior to 1978 were in MPH. It was also less common I believe to have the speedo and tack as shown, which is the reverse of the layout as we know it. Either that or PO's did the switch, as I have seen a number of gauges with the tack on the left and speedo on the right.

    It seems those are reversed, as the trip meter is on the inside. The ones I have seen in that configuration have no trip meter, so possibly a Honda set up on earlier gauges, or a PO did the reversal.
    1966 CL77 - 305cc - Gentleman's Scrambler
    1967 CL175K0 - Scrambler #802 engine
    1972 CB350F - Candy Bacchus Olive - Super Sport
    1973 CB350F - Flake Matador Red - Super Sport
    1975 CB400F - Parakeet Yellow - Super Sport
    1976 GL1000 - Goldwing Standard
    1978 CB550K - Super Sport

  24. #24
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    I believe Canada went metric for vehicle speedometers and road signes n 1977. But I was only 14 at the time.
    As for the placement of the tach and speedo, I have seen them in both locations but not sure what the factory sent to Canada in 1968.
    Doug
    2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S Daily driver
    1968 CB450 K1 Hellcat - Restoration Started
    1981 Kawasaki KZ440C - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1974 Kawasaki H1E 500 - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1973 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restomod - Driven - Sold
    1972 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restoration - Driven - Sold

  25. #25
    Senior Member Flyin900's Avatar
    Join Date
    11.27.20
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    575
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    95
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    239
    Thanked in
    176 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientdad View Post
    The first pair would work fine and would be more period-correct for your bike (aside from the redline) but the mounting might require some modification based on the angle of the studs on the bottom of the gauges. Not sure the bracket attached to them in the picture would work, the width of the forks is probably different between the 350s of the era and your 450 though the design of the forks is similar (bolt-through top bridge instead of the later style clamp-type). The second pair of gauges actually look like early 450 versions, I recall the bluish face color and 9750 redline
    That second set would be a great choice, as it is the style I have seen with the reversed tach and speedo and no trip meter. Low miles too. I just found them on EBay and the seller notes they both work (big bonus) and given the lack of face fade and good redline colour, also with a chance to offer a lower price than the listing HMMM???

    The Canadian set has higher miles and I would confirm they work, because if they don't.... no price is a good deal.
    I have rebuilt many gauges over the years for my builds, yet these smaller style are for me more difficult to do than the larger later style ones. I find it hit and miss in taking them apart to reface and still have them work afterwards.
    1966 CL77 - 305cc - Gentleman's Scrambler
    1967 CL175K0 - Scrambler #802 engine
    1972 CB350F - Candy Bacchus Olive - Super Sport
    1973 CB350F - Flake Matador Red - Super Sport
    1975 CB400F - Parakeet Yellow - Super Sport
    1976 GL1000 - Goldwing Standard
    1978 CB550K - Super Sport

  26. #26
    Member Tracks450's Avatar
    Join Date
    10.20.22
    Location
    Timmins Ontario Canada
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    12
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    Now I have sourced a NOS plastic tachometer.
    Looking at plastic NOS speedometers on EBay I have found a few listed as for cb450 and cl 350 but without part numbers, how can I make sure that what I am buying will be correct enough for my bike? If they are the same casing size but have different top speed, I would be ok with that. But if I fork out a couple hundred $ and find it is a smaller diameter, not as deep, or has a non changeable non matching chrome ring, then I might have a hard time reselling it.
    Any thoughts?
    Doug
    2015 Kawasaki Vulcan S Daily driver
    1968 CB450 K1 Hellcat - Restoration Started
    1981 Kawasaki KZ440C - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1974 Kawasaki H1E 500 - Restored - Driven - Sold
    1973 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restomod - Driven - Sold
    1972 Porsche 914 - Frame up Restoration - Driven - Sold

  27. #27
    Benevolent Dictator ancientdad's Avatar
    Join Date
    05.21.20
    Location
    Nature Coast, FL
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,659
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,042
    Thanked in
    3,175 Posts
    In comparing the two there seems to be little difference between them. It appears the chrome ring has tabs on both mounting studs on the 450 version but otherwise (along with the lower maximum mph face) they seem to be similar enough. I do know the ratio is the same between them so the road speed would read the same

    CB450K1 unit

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/204005408919

    CB350K0/K1 unit

    https://motomike.ca/products/genuine...-scuffed-cb350
    (move along, nothing to see here)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •