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Speedometer Question CB 450 K1

Tracks450

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2022
Total Posts
267
Total likes
11
Location
Timmins Ontario Canada
I want a new speedometer and tach for my 68 restoration project. I notice that some early bikes do not have a trip meter. What year did this change? Were trip meters offered in different years in different markets?
If I used similar (metal) guages with a trip meter, would it devalue my bike much?
 
Thanks for moving it to the right section dad.
As I evaluate my bike I'm looking at all my options for restoring this bike to an acceptable level without overspending. I know the chrome will clean up to a nice level but will never be "show quality. I'm sure there will be many more questions as I learn about these beautiful machines.
 
The differences between the older plastic-bodied gauges and the later metal-bodied versions are significant in visual, and the mounting bracket may have changed as well so it might require some adaptation if you choose to go with later gauges.
 
The trip odometer appeared on the 350 for the 1971 (K3) model year, so I’d guess that’s when the 450 got one too.
 
I do not believe those are original. I owned a brand new CL450K4 in high school and it had those metal-bodied gauges. The earlier models looked like this, finally found a good picture of them. Note yet another redline for the 450, 9750 rpm

https://www.bike-urious.com/ending-soon-1968-honda-cb450-k1/


The speedo definitely isn't but I wasn't sure about the Tach. they don't match either.

And are those (in the link) the plastic ones you mentioned?
 
For about a grand Canadian CMSNL has the correct NOS CB450 K1 parts in stock if your willing to spend to make it correct. That is actually a decent price, as an EBay seller wanted $1200.00 Canadian for a NOS speedo for the 1966 CL77 I am restoring presently. I paid a Dutch company about $550 Canadian to restore my 1972 CB350F gauges earlier this year and a US company did my CL77 speedo without replacing the gauge face, since it was NLA, so just a rebuild of the interior for close to $600.00 Canadian all in.

If your doing a frame up it will cost you to do it correctly, yet that bike has many original parts, so it all depends on how much your willing to spend. Chroming is another option, if you cannot find replacement chrome parts. I can recommend a shop in the GTA or Cambridge that does good work, if there isn't a Northern Ontario option.
 
Yes, the outer black plastic shell with the clear lens was held onto the gauge internals by melting the edge of the plastic over the metal frame underneath.


How did the plastic hold up to sun damage over time?
Are the plastic ones easy to take apart to rebuild? (I've restored a number of speedos and guages in my time, I just did a 1969 Kawasaki C2ss speedometer a few weeks ago)
View attachment 18190
 
For about a grand Canadian CMSNL has the correct NOS CB450 K1 parts in stock if your willing to spend to make it correct. That is actually a decent price, as an EBay seller wanted $1200.00 Canadian for a NOS speedo for the 1966 CL77 I am restoring presently. I paid a Dutch company about $550 Canadian to restore my 1972 CB350F gauges earlier this year and a US company did my CL77 speedo without replacing the gauge face, since it was NLA, so just a rebuild of the interior for close to $600.00 Canadian all in.

If your doing a frame up it will cost you to do it correctly, yet that bike has many original parts, so it all depends on how much your willing to spend. Chroming is another option, if you cannot find replacement chrome parts. I can recommend a shop in the GTA or Cambridge that does good work, if there isn't a Northern Ontario option.

Still in the assessment stage, I set up a spreadsheet to keep track of available parts prices (and part numbers). Gauges are something that if I found a nice clean set that are not correct but close, I can put them on and upgrade to correct very easily if my budget allows towards the end of the project.
As for chroming, none in Northern Ontario so on the bike I did last winter, I tried to get a few shops in Southern Ontario to give me quotes but all 3 said to look elsewhere as it would be too expensive. I know my exhaust down pipes are probably too rusty to re-chrome so if newer pipes can easily be adapted I'll look for a good set to clamp to my original mufflers.
 
I've been doing some research on Speedometers on (of all places) EBay. Without actual part numbers listed, I've downloaded photos of many speedos all listed under CB450. (as well as other bikes) I don't have the years for these and some might be wrong but it would be nice to start a new thread for comparison sake and pin it to the menu.

First the plastic ones. They seem to have a textured finish on the black outer ring. The outer case is melted to the base. They also have a completely different frame around the top where it meets the bezel.
h.jpg g.jpg m.jpg n.jpg s-l16sd00.jpg

And the steel ones. They have a smooth finish, are crimped to the bottom and a crimped formed top ring around the bezel.

s-l16b00.jpg s-l1600.jpg s-l16e00.jpg
 
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Though I have not gone through every page of it, there is a section in the back of the 450 FSM detailing the differences between older and newer models.
 
Still in the assessment stage, I set up a spreadsheet to keep track of available parts prices (and part numbers). Gauges are something that if I found a nice clean set that are not correct but close, I can put them on and upgrade to correct very easily if my budget allows towards the end of the project.
As for chroming, none in Northern Ontario so on the bike I did last winter, I tried to get a few shops in Southern Ontario to give me quotes but all 3 said to look elsewhere as it would be too expensive. I know my exhaust down pipes are probably too rusty to re-chrome so if newer pipes can easily be adapted I'll look for a good set to clamp to my original mufflers.
Old exhaust systems and re-chroming are generally not done because the carbon build up in the pipes/mufflers contaminate the chrome bath. The solution to that I think would be to braze/solder caps or plugs on the ends that after they are chromed get melted off. Something like copper with plumbers solder I think would work.
 
Back to the speedometers. I see some from early 350's and 450's.
Here is a couple sets on EBay seeing the Redline at 10500 I'm thinking its for a 350. But if the physical size is the same then it might be an easy option until I can find correct, affordable gauges.
d.jpg
or these, but they are steel ones
t.jpg
 
The first pair would work fine and would be more period-correct for your bike (aside from the redline) but the mounting might require some modification based on the angle of the studs on the bottom of the gauges. Not sure the bracket attached to them in the picture would work, the width of the forks is probably different between the 350s of the era and your 450 though the design of the forks is similar (bolt-through top bridge instead of the later style clamp-type). The second pair of gauges actually look like early 450 versions, I recall the bluish face color and 9750 redline
 
The first pail look like 1970 (K2) CB/CL350 units - speedometer goes to 110 and redline is 10,500. They have flat mounts and cable connections, not angled.
 
These come off a '71 450, look clean enough to repaint and polish, are located here in Canada and come at a real good price. For now I think I will buy them and once I can get correct ones maybe resell them.
IMG-3218.jpg
 
Nice pair, but why on earth would someone switch odo and speedo placing ? To my knowledge, Canadian speedo's are in km/hr, this one is in mls/hr ?
 
Nice pair, but why on earth would someone switch odo and speedo placing ? To my knowledge, Canadian speedo's are in km/hr, this one is in mls/hr ?

Canadian speedos only became kilometers in the late 70's around 1978, or thereabouts. Prior to that we were in MPH, so all motorcycle gauges from prior to 1978 were in MPH. It was also less common I believe to have the speedo and tack as shown, which is the reverse of the layout as we know it. Either that or PO's did the switch, as I have seen a number of gauges with the tack on the left and speedo on the right.

It seems those are reversed, as the trip meter is on the inside. The ones I have seen in that configuration have no trip meter, so possibly a Honda set up on earlier gauges, or a PO did the reversal.
 
I believe Canada went metric for vehicle speedometers and road signes n 1977. But I was only 14 at the time.
As for the placement of the tach and speedo, I have seen them in both locations but not sure what the factory sent to Canada in 1968.
 
The first pair would work fine and would be more period-correct for your bike (aside from the redline) but the mounting might require some modification based on the angle of the studs on the bottom of the gauges. Not sure the bracket attached to them in the picture would work, the width of the forks is probably different between the 350s of the era and your 450 though the design of the forks is similar (bolt-through top bridge instead of the later style clamp-type). The second pair of gauges actually look like early 450 versions, I recall the bluish face color and 9750 redline

That second set would be a great choice, as it is the style I have seen with the reversed tach and speedo and no trip meter. Low miles too. I just found them on EBay and the seller notes they both work (big bonus) and given the lack of face fade and good redline colour, also with a chance to offer a lower price than the listing HMMM???

The Canadian set has higher miles and I would confirm they work, because if they don't.... no price is a good deal.
I have rebuilt many gauges over the years for my builds, yet these smaller style are for me more difficult to do than the larger later style ones. I find it hit and miss in taking them apart to reface and still have them work afterwards.
 
Now I have sourced a NOS plastic tachometer. ??????
Looking at plastic NOS speedometers on EBay I have found a few listed as for cb450 and cl 350 but without part numbers, how can I make sure that what I am buying will be correct enough for my bike? If they are the same casing size but have different top speed, I would be ok with that. But if I fork out a couple hundred $ and find it is a smaller diameter, not as deep, or has a non changeable non matching chrome ring, then I might have a hard time reselling it.
Any thoughts?
 
In comparing the two there seems to be little difference between them. It appears the chrome ring has tabs on both mounting studs on the 450 version but otherwise (along with the lower maximum mph face) they seem to be similar enough. I do know the ratio is the same between them so the road speed would read the same

CB450K1 unit

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204005408919

CB350K0/K1 unit

https://motomike.ca/products/genuin...70-speedometer-speedo-scratched-scuffed-cb350
Note the the glass lens on the 350 is raised while the 450 is recessed.
 
Nice pair, but why on earth would someone switch odo and speedo placing ? To my knowledge, Canadian speedo's are in km/hr, this one is in mls/hr ?

Apologies for the thread drift, but I often find out things that I had no idea about in these threads. In the UK we switched to the metric system in 1965 for weights and measures, but thankfully retained road distances in miles, and speed in miles per hour. And we still drive on the correct side of the road ....
 
Apologies for the thread drift, but I often find out things that I had no idea about in these threads. In the UK we switched to the metric system in 1965 for weights and measures, but thankfully retained road distances in miles, and speed in miles per hour. And we still drive on the wrong side of the road ....

Fixed it for you :lol:
 
I ended up buying this one on EvilBay. The face is scratched but the seller claims it's NOS. I can polish scratches.

s-l1r600.jpg
Now I will now need to source out the chrome ring for the bottom.
s-l1f600.jpg
 
I ended up buying this one on EvilBay. The face is scratched but the seller claims it's NOS. I can polish scratches.

Now I will now need to source out the chrome ring for the bottom.

So the speedometer came in. As I guessed, it wasn't really NOS, dam!
The seller "slicksalvage" (should have been a clue) didn't state that it had been bounced around in the back of a pick-up truck on a gravel road for a year. (he claimed bounced on the shelf) The wires were used and cracked. The front polished out good enough but the real problem is the studs on the back. When I went to remove the nuts, my 10mm wrench did not fit, but a 7/16" wrench did. It appears that (maybe from the dealer?) someone jammed SAE nuts onto the metric threads and *****ed them up pretty good.

PXL-20221212-165903361.jpg

With shipping and customs losses I don't really want to return it but I might have to.

Now my question, Has anyone "un-melted" the plastic gauges to take them apart in order to change the studs? I've un-crimped the metal ones before, no big deal, but I'm not sure about the plastic.
 
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My Dad and I did it a couple times back in the '70s but leaving enough plastic to re-melt back over to properly seal it up after reassembly is a crapshoot.

eBay sellers can't be trusted using the acronym "NOS" anymore, they loosely use it to describe "good used" and I'm quite sure they expect it gets their ads more attention by doing so.
 
Now my question, Has anyone "un-melted" the plastic gauges to take them apart in order to change the studs? I've un-crimped the metal ones before, no big deal, but I'm not sure about the plastic.

I have cut apart a similar plastic gauge from an XL350 before. It has been problem free now for around 8 years.

Using a cutoff wheel on a Dremel, cut around the base below where the chrome trim ring will be. It is probably smart beforehand to scribe a small witness mark across where the cut will be so that later you can precisely line up the two halves during reassembly. Separate the halves and make your repairs and then use a two part epoxy to glue the base back on the rest of the unit. You may have to sand any high points off the epoxy to get the chrome ring seated but if all goes well you will never see evidence of the surgery.
 
I have cut apart a similar plastic gauge from an XL350 before. It has been problem free now for around 8 years.

Using a cutoff wheel on a Dremel, cut around the base below where the chrome trim ring will be. It is probably smart beforehand to scribe a small witness mark across where the cut will be so that later you can precisely line up the two halves during reassembly. Separate the halves and make your repairs and then use a two part epoxy to glue the base back on the rest of the unit. You may have to sand any high points off the epoxy to get the chrome ring seated but if all goes well you will never see evidence of the surgery.

Not having cutoff wheels in the '70s, that sounds like a much better approach. We melted the plastic lower edge to get them apart then, not the most effective method.
 
I have cut apart a similar plastic gauge from an XL350 before. It has been problem free now for around 8 years.

Using a cutoff wheel on a Dremel, cut around the base below where the chrome trim ring will be. It is probably smart beforehand to scribe a small witness mark across where the cut will be so that later you can precisely line up the two halves during reassembly. Separate the halves and make your repairs and then use a two part epoxy to glue the base back on the rest of the unit. You may have to sand any high points off the epoxy to get the chrome ring seated but if all goes well you will never see evidence of the surgery.

I might just do that if I don't get a resolution from EBay.

If I keep it, my first attempt will be to hold the threads on the very end with tiny visegrips and use the existing nuts to "rethread" the old thread. Then move the visegrips to the bottom and continue to back off the 6mm nut. If that doesn't work then I'll just cut it apart and replace the studs. I'm hoping that if I can get the threads to work, the chances are that once it is reinstalled on the final restored bike, it will probably never come off again. In either case, putting the SAE nuts back on is NOT an option for me. That's not the way I do things.

Shame to pay close to $250CAN and then have to cut it apart to make it work.
 
Since I paid for a NOS, and it wasn't, I am returning it back to the seller. I'm just waiting for his prepaid shipping label.
I could have just used the speedo with the SAE nuts but that isn't the way I do things.
 
Since I paid for a NOS, and it wasn't, I am returning it back to the seller. I'm just waiting for his prepaid shipping label.
I could have just used the speedo with the SAE nuts but that isn't the way I do things.

And when you pay for NOS you expect NOS, I would do the same thing you're doing. The term is way too overused and sellers need to be held accountable when they misrepresent their parts listings.
 
This is going to cost the seller about $50 in shipping fees, but if it's a big enough business, he can write it off at tax time.
If he offered to refund 50% of what I paid, I would have kept it, but he wasn't interested. I'm sure I will see it back up on Ebay in January.
 
Well it likely is NOS given the mileage. Unless someone was devious enough to wind it back to that low level; which usually indicates testing at the manufacturer. It clearly had a hard shelf life though and someone doing something sketchy with the SAE nuts and bolt stubs.

For that money it is worth waiting and looking for your correct piece. They eventually show up it, just takes time and patience and possibly deep pockets on your part. A NOS speedo came up for the 1966 CL77 I am doing on EBay 6 months ago at $800.00 US. Which was over $1200.00 Canadian with shipping and taxes.

I was tempted, yet it wasn't perfect being a 55 year old NOS stored item, yet very close. I decided to send mine to a US speedo rebuilder, which was less money and came back in VGC, but not new.
 
I have not yet built a concours bike or car. All I try to do is get the best I can afford within my bike budget. VGC is what I aim for. I don't think I would spend $1000 on a BNIB speedometer unless all the chrome on the bike was totally rust free and I was going to aim for the concours final product. But the bikes and cars I've restored, are built to be driven and enjoyed. Although, the '81 KZ440 I did last year, the buyer stored it in his house for the winter because he didn't want to leave it in an unheated garage.
 
Update
After attempting a return on the Ebay NOS (Not Old Stock) speedo, the seller refused to send me a prepaid shipping label. He also blocked me from contacting him. Ebay took over and gave him 5 days to respond. He didn't, so as of this morning Ebay has refunded me my full purchase and shipping costs. They told me to keep the item and do not send it back. I do loose the customs and GST cost but for those costs I will repair the threads and look for a nice chrome ring.
So here is my set of "new" gauges.

PXL-20221228-153043909.jpg PXL-20221228-153057857.jpg
 
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Update
After attempting a return on the Ebay NOS (Not Old Stock) speedo, the seller refused to send me a prepaid shipping label. He also blocked me from contacting him. Ebay took over and gave him 5 days to respond. He didn't, so as of this morning Ebay has refunded me my full purchase and shipping costs. They told me to keep the item and do not send it back. I do loose the customs and GST cost but for those costs I will repair the threads and look for a nice chrome ring.
So here is my set of "new" gauges.

View attachment 19447 View attachment 19448

So my BNIB Tach and my Not Old Stock Speedo are not off a CB450. With the angle of the mounting bolts, It appears that they are both off of a CL350 or other bike. I looked at the bracket of the 350 and the mounts are offset, the 450 mounts are inline. For the cost of the gauges, I guess I'm going to have to modify my already modified (PO mounted newer gauges) gauge mount to fit 350 gauges ..... No big deal, just another deal.

CL350-Bracket.jpgssgfgf.jpg

One of these things are not like the other.....
But a hybrid of both will soon be made.....
 
The speedo appears to be a CB/CL350K0 unit. The lens is raised rather than recessed and no trip odometer. The tach is hard to say, lens appears recessed.
Definitely not SL350 because the speedo would have a tire speed warning on the face and the tach would be either a 10,500 or 9K redline
 
So I have solved my installation problem. The gauges are the same but the mounting position is different. Since the PO already modified the existing mount in order to install newer gauges, I figured why not adapt them to the original type gauges. So I welded on an extension (across the top) to properly orientate my NOS gauges.

PXL_20230216_164744375.jpg PXL_20230217_181519890.jpg

And you will notice my 2 steps forward and 1 step backward Steering Damper Knob and my home made cable guide.
PXL_20230217_181650679.jpg
Still waiting for a speedo chrome ring for my speedometer.
 
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Re-done damper knob turned out nice. Gauges look good, always makes a bike look better to see a bright red redline area.
 
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