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update: I tore my engine apart

Re: the shift mechanism bolt, I haven’t had much luck getting that snug but also secure.

You might have some luck adding a washer behind the stand-off that the bolt passes through, right against the case.

I re-machined mine to have more space to let everything move.


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Thanks so much, I'll try that. Is this the correct location for the black ball?
IMG_3227_result.jpg
Side note, I will be replacing that gasket
 
Nope - that’ll clog up your oil system like nobody’s business.

The proper spot is in the lower case half. See the below fiche. When in doubt use partzilla:

63e3bf3dd449dcf3b75e97108d2cf90e.png


When you pull the cases back apart, the crank bearing will come up with the upper case.

Look where the bearing sits in the lower case and you’ll see a hole that’s black rubber-ball sized. It goes there.


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Not sure what you're trying to show here, you really can't tell much of anything about it without the transmission shafts in place to keep the shift forks aligned.
 
Sorry, I was trying to show how the shifter paw moves a little different in gear 3. I will check again when I have everything else installed.
 
You need to get the star over that protruding pin. There should only be one pin protruding and it mates with a detent in the back of the star.

Installing the mechanism (stopper and Star and spring and everything else) is a bit of a hassle, but there’s only one way to get it on right.

I think the way I got everything together was to put the bolt assembly (6x25 bolt, washer, stopper, spacer) all together and put a few threads into the case while getting the spring in, then index the star onto the shift drum and put the Philips countersunk screw in by only a thread or two and hand tighten them back and forth until everything sits together.

It’s a hassle.


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I think that’s the same video.

If the stopper is seating in the star and on neutral when it’s supposed to, you’ll be good.


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Ok, I am on to the top end, hopefully. I have a few things I just want to check in on.

As suggested I am going to use first oversize rings on my stock pistons, as I was having compression problems. I will file the gaps to .008". When installing, I will rotate the rings 120 degrees from each other.

Does that sounds correct? Also, does anyone know where these gaskets go? They are very small.

Capture.JPG

Thanks again guys. Hoping to get the top end on tonight, It's been a full two day job but It would be a millions times longer without help from this forum.
 
Gasket kits often come with extras. On the left looks like the stud seals that are on the 360s and later 450s (?).

You won’t be using it.

I can’t tell what that o-ring might be for. No real context.

Is it alone in the packaging? Or are there others of a similar size?


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I thought they might be extras. As for the right one, they are around 12mm in diameter and the kit came with 4 of them
 
Although I haven't seen kits with them those o-rings could go on the rocker arm shafts. I have always bought them from Honda.

7.7 x 2.3 is the Honda size. Inside diameter and thickness of the ring so it will be around 12mm if we are measuring the same way.
 
Thanks so much. I got NOS rings from Honda, gonna go with .008 all around FSM says .006-.014 is standard value. Also, can anyone tell me which is the top and which is the second ring?
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I am installing the cam sprocket. I know it needs to be aligned when the engine is on the LT mark.

IMG_3257_result.jpg

Can anyone confirm this is where it should be? It looks right with the FSM but wanted to ask here just to be sure.

Also, for the sprocket bolts torque, I am thinking of doing 7 ft pounds. 6mm bolts should be around 6-8, and last time it was apparently over torqued which may have been why the bolts snapped. I am also thinking of putting a little loctite on it, I only have standard blue. Says the maximum heat is 300 F, so it should be good, I believe.
 
Looks good so far, get the cam in and sprocket mounted to set the cam timing. Take a picture and post so we can see the horizontal line on the cam gear.
Blue LocTite is good for the bolts as is the 7#'s
 
Ok, cam is on:


IMG_3265_result.jpg
I made sure to put the right cam bolts into the correct holes. The one you see is the full-threaded bolt, as that is the one supposed to be next to the L. The rotor is on LT and the sprocket L mark is on the top. The governance pin is also facing up.
Is that all there is to cam timing?

I am starting to second guess myself on the torque of the sprocket bolts.
This if from a youtube video on the 350 top end building process (not sure which manual as the FSM does not specify torque)

ddddddddd.JPG

That seems like a lot of torque for these bolts, I don't want them to snap. Also, the shouldered knock bolt has like half the threads of the other one, can it really handle that much torque?
I think loctite and 7 ft/lb may still be the better option.
 
I'mm 99.9% that O-Ring you said you won't be needing is used on the Valve Adjusters.
Goes between the Cam Case and the Cam End Cap Bearing.
There is a recess where it goes to seal the Adjuster shafts.
 
Cam timing is as you described. LT on the rotor, cam pin at 12 o'clock. Lower cam gear hole takes the shoulder bolt, upper is fully threaded.
I used 8 ft. lbs. with Blue LocTite on mine. 15#'s is too much for a 6mm bolt even though these are hardened bolts.
Once you have everything set you check the cam timing by looking for the line on the left side cam gear to be parallel with the top of the cam case
RIMG0380.jpg
 
Thanks so much, looking good! Also, valve tappets are the same for intake and exhaust, correct? I have them sorted by side of the engine but not by intake or exhaust.
 
Right - remember you’re using steel on steel here.

You can torque them more, but that combined with loctite (blue or orange) and the German torque spec of Gutentight will kee them in place.

I usually just crank down with a 1/4” ratchet and it’s fine.

Easiest way to mount the end caps is with the cam at 90 degrees after left top dead center. No load on any valves. The rockers and pins need to be in before you put the end caps on, obviously. Set the pins to 12 o clock for the most wiggle room.

Set the cam chain tension at 90Degrees after left top dead center, then rotate through to LTDC again and check the cam position again.

Use a good high pressure assembly lube on the cam journals, lobes, and rockers.


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Thanks so much. I had two shims come on my camshaft, I put them back on when doing the end caps. But how do I check for axial play? At 90 degress after LT the cam doesnt seems to want to move at all.
 
Two ways - you can set up a dial indicator or a dial test indicator if you have one - this gives you a real measurement.

The alternative is to use feeler gauges.

There is play back and forth, not much, but it’s there. You can press on the cam sprocket from one side to the other to get the camshaft to move.

The correct measurement from the manual is escaping me right now.
 
Nice. Pop the valve cover on, get the tach drive and points on, set the valve lash and point gap and start it up.

Don’t forget to Mount the engine somewhere in between that, but you get the point [emoji6]


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Oh - not totally necessary, but I like to prime the oil passageways via the test port on the left side of the engine once it’s all assembled.

Not strictly necessary, but I’ve convinced myself the oil gets there quicker after a rebuild.


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How do you prime them? Just squirt lube through the test port? one of my biggest worries is that an oil passageway will be clogged. I was careful with the gaskets though.
 
Yeah, once everything is torqued I just popped some oil into the test port with a little pump oiler.


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So the top end is done. I already did full clutch plates and everything behind them, and I threw my gear shifter on to test it out before I put on the side cover. While I was briefly testing it, the shifter paw unattached itself. I think its called the shifter paw, its the piece that is attatched to the shift shaft that actually moves the gears. So I pulled off the clutch plates and gears.

IMG_3266_result.jpg

I reconnected it, as seen above. I think what happened was the long piece with the visible spring backed out slightly, and then when I changed gears it caused the paw to come out as well. Do you guys think that when I put it together, it will somehow keep it in place? Like I said the clutch plates were fully installed and the side cover was ready to go back on when it happened. Not sure what to do now, the FSM isn't much help and I'm trying not to open this in a few days. Could there be a piece to keep the bottom of the shift shaft piece in place that I am missing?

Edit: here is a video of the problem
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zVo8meJCjQxUQ8iy8
 
Thank you so much!! I am so sorry I feel like I asked a stupid question now. I guess I've started to rely on the forums a little too much, gotta do some more detective work before always asking
 
a tooth just snapped off of my clutch basket...**** my life. I tried welding it, didn't want to take. Gotta order a new one.
 
IMG_3278_result.jpg
You can see where my ****ty welding ****ed up the gearing. I found a guy two hours from me who has a cb graveyard, says I can pull one off those. Hopefully then engine will be fully done today!!
 
Got the new clutch basket installed. So:
IMG_3279_result.jpg

The engine is done! This project was lot more complicated than I expected, but I cannot stress how grateful I am for this forum. Thank you to everyone who answered my stupid questions and concerns, all of your help made a huge difference, and I would have done so many things wrong otherwise. I said this in 3 pages ago in the beginning and I'll say it again, I hope one day I switch sides and go from the person asking a million questions to the person answering them. And I think your guys advice on projects like this is what is gonna get me there. You guys are the best. I'll post an update when I get it on the bike!
 
This project was lot more complicated than I expected, but I cannot stress how grateful I am for this forum. Thank you to everyone who answered my stupid questions and concerns, all of your help made a huge difference, and I would have done so many things wrong otherwise. I said this in 3 pages ago in the beginning and I'll say it again, I hope one day I switch sides and go from the person asking a million questions to the person answering them. And I think your guys advice on projects like this is what is gonna get me there. You guys are the best. I'll post an update when I get it on the bike!

Thanks for the kind words. It's what we do here, and it's why we chose to start our own forum when we got tired of the slowly declining environment at HT about 2.5 years ago. I believe we have an assemblage of some of the most well-informed former Honda techs and mechanics anywhere on the internet, and we enjoy helping those who are new to our vintage Honda addiction and/or to motorcycles in general. We're glad things went well for you, and we certainly look forward to when your knowledge level is such that you can add to the helpful responses on a regular basis as well. (y)
 
I was in your shoes in the knowledge department for a couple of years. AncientDad, LDR, and others got me through not one but two engine builds and a host of general bike issues.

I’m now absolutely confident that I know enough to get myself into trouble with these things - soon you will be too! [emoji14]


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any tips on breaking the engine in? I've seen some people say take it easy and some people say the opposite


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What’s worked for me is:

Using a good quality non-synthetic break in oil. I like Motul 10w40 mineral (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009I9BBU...aG9uZV9kZXRhaWw&smid=A3PB80S2HKEWEDp13NParams) - though you don’t need 12 =)

Run the engine in neutral at ~2,000 rpm to move oil for a few minutes (keep a fan on it) set idle speed/mix and timing.

Re-adjust valves when cool - they’ll need it because you just washed away all the assembly lube.

First hundred miles: stay below 5k rpm, constantly vary and shift gears around.

At 100: Change oil, clean filter, remove right side cover and clean oil pickup screen, re-torque stud nuts (one at a time). Reset cam chain tension, check/set valves and timing.

100-200: stay below 6k rpm, constantly vary and shift gears around.

200-300: stay below 7k rpm, constantly vary and shift gears around.

300-400: stay below 8k rpm, constantly vary and shift gears around.

400-500: stay below 9k rpm, constantly vary and shift gears around.

At 500: Change oil, clean filter, remove right side cover and clean oil pickup screen. Reset cam chain tension, check/set valves and timing.

After 500: go bananas, it’s broken in.

The other option is:

Ride it like you stole it for awhile.


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[video]https://photos.app.goo.gl/jkNMELqprmRfpbNWA[/video]

Put her together and started right up. I also pulled out the bolt in the head that shows if oil is getting to the cams, and oil poured out. So off to a good start! I did a short ride and the bike rode great, no problems at all. And Ribrick, thanks for the advice! The second option seems like more fun but I'll probably take it slow and do the first method.
 
A) sounds like it’s got a good strong idle

B) I dig the green backlighting in the gauges

C) idling on the kickstand has always made me uncomfortable, only because the oil pickup is alllll the way on the forward right side of the engine.

Enjoy it!


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