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No spark, don’t know what else to try. 1974 CB360G

Avery_74cb360

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Avery joined to try to sort out the problems with his CB360G, and unfortunately his first post in this repair thread was wiped out during a simple edit (an issue affecting some since our server migration).

In short, his wiring was a mess and he had a few other issues crop up along the way to getting his wiring sorted out in the pages that follow. Our apologies to Avery, and unfortunately his first post wasn't quoted by me when I responded so the content is lost forever.

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Moved to 360 Electrical section.

First, did you download the Honda FSM at the link I posted for you on Reddit? Aftermarket manuals are well known for errors and omissions so the FSM is the way to go. And when you encounter anything that you don't understand, post the question with plenty of pictures here before you try something you're either not sure of or totally unfamiliar with.

As I mentioned on Reddit, the Pamco could be bad, many of them failed due to the factory charging system components allowing voltage spikes to damage them. The lack of power to the appropriate areas of your electrical system could be many things from the way the harness is connected to the battery to the ignition switch's internal contacts being corroded so again, pictures of what you're working with always help us see what might be wrong. And, be very careful with YT videos, they're often made by people who assume they know more than they really do, including Common Motor despite the slick production in theirs.
 
Good to see you on here as well. I’ve been trying to upload some pictures, but i only have my phone as i’m on vacation and it’s not working out very well.
I downloaded the FSM a couple weeks ago and i’ve been reading through it with the clymer as well. It seems like the FSM has a little more information on testing if stuff works or not. I’ll upload any pictures that’ll help, i’m not sure what’s needed. I tested my solenoid and it clicks as it should. I’ll test my starter switch when i get back but i can’t imagine it being the issue, it’s brand new. It does kick over and i put fuel in the carbs the last time i tried to start it. Could the wires in the harness somehow not be working? Not sure how to test that
 
Good to see you on here as well.

I better be here, I'm one of the administrators. :)

I’ve been trying to upload some pictures, but i only have my phone as i’m on vacation and it’s not working out very well.

Here's a link to our "Welcome Package", a bunch of helpful stuff for this forum format including posting pictures. If you plan to use a mobile device regularly, you can either look for and select "desktop mode" for the forum or use the free Tapatalk app, either way helps.

I’ll upload any pictures that’ll help, i’m not sure what’s needed. I tested my solenoid and it clicks as it should. I’ll test my starter switch when i get back but i can’t imagine it being the issue, it’s brand new. It does kick over and i put fuel in the carbs the last time i tried to start it. Could the wires in the harness somehow not be working? Not sure how to test that

For now, let's concentrate on strictly the ignition and let the starter solenoid, etc and charging system wait until the engine is running. Since we can't be sure of anything at this point, let's focus on you putting the points and coils back on the bike, get them connected and then post pics of it all so we can see just how things are set up. It might be something really simple so lets start there.
 
It appears the 4 pin connector on the new harness i got did not match the regulator rectifier, leading to it not being grounded. It didn’t get put out instantly, so the shielding on a few wires got pretty torched. I took the ruined parts and replaced them with some heat shrink and electrical tape. I rebuilt the connector in the right order so it’s not a problem anymore, i put a stock rectifier on there and i haven’t had anything out of the ordinary.
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I didn’t get any pictures of the points system when it was installed, only some videos of us trying to start it, so i’ll put it back on when i get home and go from there. Is there a way to remove the spark plug wires from the stock coils to test them? They seem to be permanently in there from what i can see.


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I didn’t get any pictures of the points system when it was installed, only some videos of us trying to start it, so i’ll put it back on when i get home and go from there. Is there a way to remove the spark plug wires from the stock coils to test them? They seem to be permanently in there from what i can see.


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I moved these pictures above from your introduction since they're about this thread and effort to get it running.

Yes, the coil wires are permanent in the stock coils. The caps can go bad as they are resistor types but they're easily replaceable if necessary. So when you get the points plate back in, take some pics of it and we'll go from there.
 
Okay cool, my coils and caps are both reading around 5 ohms, that’s correct right? And the ngk wires i CAN take off from the non stock coils read very low, but i couldn’t find any info on what they should be.


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I think around 5 Ohms is good between the two small leads, but it should be on the kilo Ohm scale (10-15 kOhms) for the resistance from one of the small leads to the spark plug cap.

Did you verify that 12V is reaching the coils when the key is on? (Black w/white on the stock harness)
 
No fire reached close to them at all, so on the outside they were fine, as well as the pamco wires. They all seem to read the correct ohms, not sure other than that

If it was an electrical fire, I would be worried that high current could have fried various components, even if the they don't show external damage.
 
Yeah i’ve been worried about that. I don’t know how to check wether or not the wires work, but i did find how to test some things, like the condenser for example. And in regards to your other question, i’m not sure if 12 volts reaches through from the battery. That wire is the one that needs to be twisted in with one of the wires from the pamco, so the original connector is not on there but i think what i did works, but like i said not sure how to test.


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Does the 4-into-1 harness use the same basic wiring diagram as the OEM harness? It might help if you could make a diagram to show what you have wired up with whatever colors your harness is using. For example, the coils won't get power if the kill switch is in the off position, but we don't even know if your kill switch is connected and/or working. It sounds like you need to trace power throughout the harness to see where it's going and where it's not. (key switch, kill switch, coils, neutral light, etc.)
 
Yeah the diagram is basically the exact same, they use the original diagram and just change a couple colors. The horn is purple and not light green, and a couple little things like that, but most of the stuff is the same. I was actually gonna ask a question about the neutral switch. On the og and 4into1 harness, i’ve got a green and red w a blue and red wire coming out near the coils, do these go to the neutral switch? I can’t find any real description on any diagram


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On the stock harness it's light green with the red stripe and it's one of the four wires in the 4-pin connector with the stator. Could have burned. Have you tested the stator resistances since the fire?

You can find the neutral switch near the alternator in the attached diagram.


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Yeah i see it on all my diagrams, but i don’t know where it connects to. This is a picture of the two wires i’m talking about on the old harness, they’re the same on the new one

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That one shouldn't connect to anything - I believe it is used with a clutch lever switch on later models. LG/R should also find it's way to the neutral light. (At least, my 74 360G is not equipped with a clutch switch.)
 
Okay cool, i’ve got the red and green ones in the headlight bucket hooked up, so i wasn’t sure why that one was there as well.
There’s a few wires in the headlight bucket that don’t connect to anything either i think, i’ll have to check if they’re missing on the stock harness and it’s just a 4into1 thing.


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How about checking the stator resistances at the four -pin connector: pink-white, pink-yellow, white-yellow?

Have you checked the bulbs (neutral indicator, in particular)?
 
My initial goal was for him to get power to the coils and spark with the points, get it running and then work on other stuff but he can certainly do some tests along the way. I'm thinking since he's a beginner he should take it a step at a time and absorb the process.
 
Have you checked the bulbs (neutral indicator, in particular)?


I’ve been planning to, once i got it to at least start i was gonna look at figuring out how to take that apart. I didn’t think that every bulb on my bike is bad, so i figured taking a look at the rest of it is a better first step


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get power to the coils and spark with the points, get it running and then work on other stuff but he can certainly do some tests along the way.

I’m definitely enjoying the process, as painful and annoying as it may be. My dad mentioned something to me about testing the starter motor itself, is that something i should look into? If it’s broken or something that’s not the end of the world for me, i was considering going kickstart only at some point


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My initial goal was for him to get power to the coils and spark with the points, get it running and then work on other stuff but he can certainly do some tests along the way. I'm thinking since he's a beginner he should take it a step at a time and absorb the process.

That makes good sense. Getting the neutral light to work is probably a good step along that path.

I was worried that the electrical fire may have damaged the stator, but it's obviously not needed to get the bike running [off the battery].
 
I’m definitely enjoying the process, as painful and annoying as it may be. My dad mentioned something to me about testing the starter motor itself, is that something i should look into? If it’s broken or something that’s not the end of the world for me, i was considering going kickstart only at some point


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You're welcome to go e-starter delete, but the starter motors aren't often the problem. Let's get spark and the engine running with the kickstarter and then branch out to other things.
 
Okay sounds like a plan. I might be able to do a little work on sunday night and i’ll have a full day to mess with it on tuesday.


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Good, and report back as you go with pics too. Remember, sometimes an experienced eye can spot something simple but easy to miss, so get plenty of different views to share with all the eyes here.
 
Alright, so here are some pictures of the pamco wiring (included the diagram) as i have it before i revert back to points. Also, there are pictures of the reading from the coil wires. The left coil reads 5.4, and the right coil reads 5,4. Switching to points now, just checking those they are working
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Here i have the points all put back together and wired up. You’ll see the black and white kill switch wire is orange at the end, that’s just a double female bullet connector, the original was taken off. I installed my new motobatt battery, not sure what my next steps should be
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Is it just me, or did you change the coils when you put the points plate back on? Changing too many possible variables will make this more difficult to track down. The brown coils do not have removable wires but earlier you had a removable plug wire in your hand.
 
Yes I did. These are the original coils. The black coils are from the previous owner to use with the electronic ignition. They do not have connections on any of the wires, they didn’t need them because they’re supposed to be spliced with the pamco system. That is why i used them, because they can be plugged into the points system. Should i try to put connectors on the black coils?


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Did you test these coils (besides the meter readings)? Unless there is a significant difference in ohms readings from the coils used with the Pamco (which does not require different coils, BTW) and the stock coils are in good working order, you should stick with one set or the other until we get this situation figured out. Changing too many things at a time leads to no diagnosis at all since you have no idea what worked or didn't. Also, did you check to see if the points show 12v when open, and set the gaps on the points as well? this needs to go back to the very basics to get proper answers.
 
I don’t know another way to test them other than the multimeter. I’ll search for some spare connectors on the old harness and splice them with the black coils so i can be sure they’re the control set. They don’t have the original brackets on them or anything so i’ll have to find a way to ground the condenser. How do i test the points for power?


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Simplest way is a test light, there should be 12v at the points when the key and kill switch is on and the points are open. When the points are closed there will be no power there to light a test light because the circuit to power the coils to generate a spark when the points open is complete, but you can't leave them closed for too long or the coil will overheat.
 
Okay i do have a continuity light. I don’t see in the manuals how to test the points though. Do I connect it to the positive of the battery and put the light in the holes near the points? The left one is open now but the right isn’t


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Okay i just had a bit of a close call lol. I put my continuity light on positive and touched the test light to the negative to ensure my battery had power. When i did that, A a spark come off the positive terminal and the bike seemed to try to start, for the split second that my light was on it. Is this a good sign or a bad sign i really don’t know


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You ground the test light (typically it has an alligator clip on the end of the wire and the probe with bulb inside the handle on the other end) and touch the probe tip to the small bolt where the wires attach to the points, one at a time. If the key in on and the points are open there should be 12v.
 
Okay i just had a bit of a close call lol. I put my continuity light on positive and touched the test light to the negative to ensure my battery had power. When i did that, A a spark come off the positive terminal and the bike seemed to try to start, for the split second that my light was on it. Is this a good sign or a bad sign i really don’t know


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That sounds like you have bigger problems than just ignition. You really need to call Steve as he's offered many times already.
 
Who is steve? Is that 66Sprint? I’d definitely give him a call


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Yep, he can walk you through testing everything from the beginning. I haven't seen him on yet today but it wouldn't hurt to call him. Text him your username before calling so he knows you're not a robocaller
 
That sounds like you have bigger problems than just ignition. You really need to call Steve as he's offered many times already.

Can you take a picture of your starter solenoid? It seems that it may be wired incorrectly based on what happened with the test light. Try to compare your wiring with the diagram to see if anything is amiss.
 
Here’s a couple pictures of the solenoid. It’s tough to see in the picture but i’ve got the red and yellow connected to the red and yellow and the black connected to the black multi connector, and then of course the orange goes to the battery
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As long as the surfaces touching the frame, as well as the spot on the frame itself, are clean metal (what I see is somewhat clean but could be cleaner) then it should work for the condenser, but you should put a terminal on the green ground wire and not just sandwich it behind a bracket. Did you connect power and ground to the original coils to see if they produced a spark? testing them with a meter is one thing but it's easy to test them with a battery, connect the positive to one terminal and touch the other terminal to ground for a second, it should spark when you remove the ground wire (with a spark plug in the cap, grounded to the same ground connected to the battery).
 
There is a terminal, it’s just hard to see, it’s a ring terminal. Idk what i did differently, but i have power in the bike for the first time. The turn signals turn on with the key on standby (not in start however), and they turn off when i go to signal, don’t relay to the rear, and turn off when the headlight is in high wan, but regardless they have power for the first time. I’ll grab my other battery and test the coils so i don’t have to talk them all the way off. So i put positive to positive and the other wire to the frame? And what should spark exactly? The wires or the plug boots?


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You should have some jumper wires handy, lengths of wires stripped on both ends so you can check the coils away from the bike using the battery. Even a pair of jumper cables will do in a pinch if that's all you have. This picture describes the process simpler than a lot of typing. You want the plug cap on the plug wire so you can attach a plug easily.

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Yes, to the negative terminal of the battery because the outer body of the plug is grounded when it's in the engine and the spark jumps from the center terminal of the plug (which is insulated by the ceramic core of the plug) to the ground electrode attached to the bottom of the plug. Just be sure to use a fully charged battery in good condition and in a well-ventilated area since a discharged or discharging battery can give off vapors that can explode if there is a spark.
 
This is why we ask for pictures.......:);)

Yep, and while I was answering so many posts earlier (we're at 130 today so far) I totally missed that original heavy lead not being connected to the battery. Good catch as always Steve
 
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