• Don't overlook our Welcome Package, it contains many links to important and helpful information about functions at VHT like posting pictures and sending PMs (private messages), as well as finding the parts you need.

    AD

Which of these three is your favorite quick reference repair manual?

ausman1000

ausman1000

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2022
Total Posts
1,098
Total likes
192
Location
SoCal
Which of these three is your favorite quick reference goto manual?

All three are fairly new acquisitions for me so I have no favorite yet. I do see my son grabbing the Glenns manual most frequently though.
Me, I like the color coded wiring diagram in the Clymer's.

manuals.jpg
 
I'll stick to Factory Service Manuals for their accuracy. Aftermarket manuals are notorious for their inaccuracies although some are better than others. I meant no personal offense.
 
ausman1000 said:
All three are fairly new acquisitions for me so I have no favorite yet. I do see my son grabbing the Glenns manual most frequently though.
Me, I like the color coded wiring diagram in the Clymer's.
Click to expand...

I've heard that the Chilton's 350/360 Twins book is nice and it seems to be hard to come by, but I've never had my hands on one so I don't know why it is held in high regard (by some). I've never heard of the Glenn's manual. The first manual I found for my dohc 450 was a Clymer's and it was useful to me at the time.

That said, I think the senior members here at VHT put the FSM ahead of any and all aftermarket sources because it is the original source. The aftermarket books are viewed as derivative and potentially suspect. Often the illustrations in the aftermarket manuals are even lifted from the FSM.

After about six months of VHT membership, my indoctrination is almost complete and I only look at the Clymer's if something is really unclear in the FSM.

If you pay attention, you'll see the coaster joke all over the forum. It's one of the ways us newcomers become indoctrinated.
 
Not doubting the factory service manual is the holy grail, but as stated "quick reference goto".

But if they actually really are all beer coasters then I have three new beer coasters. But yea, color wiring diagram. But yea, better than monochrome.
 
Beer coasters at best.
Click to expand...

Then you didn't study them hard enough. Every single book mentioned above has some very valuable information, you have to know what to look for in what manual. Most early Honda FSM's are based on pre-production models where the pictures give a wrong idea of what it looks like at your bike. Take for example the FSM for the CB450 K0, they show pictures of different !! pre-production bikes, all in one manual. It's even worse in the manuals of earlier bikes, such as the CB72/ CB77 or the early dreams. A CB72'61 is a different bike in many details then the later ones, but most pictures show the pre-production model of the CB72'61. Don't get me started on early dreams, it's even worse.

But yeah, color wiring diagram.
Click to expand...

The electrics on these bike are very basic, you really don't need one if you understand why things work, but most electrical questions come from people who don't know the physics behind it, they just want to know how to connect to what. When it comes down to cable routing you need all the pictures you can get out of these manuals, including the FSM, and yes sometimes they conflict, and sometimes the FSM is right, and sometimes it's wrong.

I hardly ask a question on any forum, including this one. Asking questions means you just want a quick answer without going through the process of analysing it yourself, not learning anything on the why question, only the how question.

Many people could benefit by reading in, for example on Glenn's Honda two cylinder repair and tune-up guide, but also Honda Motorcycle Common Service Manual, before asking questions about the basics.
 
jensen said:
Many people could benefit by reading in... ...Honda Motorcycle Common Service Manual, before asking questions about the basics.
Click to expand...

THIS I agree with.

My experience with aftermarket manuals has been in finding more typos/errors than the FSM has, and as mentioned above they often use illustrations taken directly from the FSM so no enhanced or improved views despite the printing date being after the bike was available to document those functions with newer and better color pictures.
 
I have the FSM and Clymer. I printed the FSM and put it in page protectors and a binder. So it's as accessible as any other. I only rarely reference Clymer these days. Sometime the wording is slightly different and it helps.

I have read the common service manual, and the common tools. Also the carburetor one. These are partly helpful, but mainly because I have some car experience. And I reference the parts diagrams. This last one is really helpful because I can't rely on the current state of the bike to know what is correct. There have been missing parts and different parts (like extra washers, or parts from other motorcycles) and the parts manuals and diagrams let me know how it's supposed to be.

On search... This forum is like most I've used. Search is hit or miss. I've searched for stuff I KNOW I've posted and it didn't find it. I've searched for things I KNOW others have posted and come up blank ("Uni-Syn"). So...

I ask here, possibly too quickly, because I have no point of reference. I've never even heard a vintage Honda twin run. I've never, until this forum, had access to someone who has actually worked on one. I wonder how many mechanics would have been successful if they were discouraged from asking questions of the mechanic next to them, or being shown how.
 
A certain level of reading in before asking questions is mandatory, every teacher would go nuts if students didn't self-study before asking questions. And if a students asks a question where the answer is literary described in the for example FSM, the teacher would ask him politely to study it harder.

For example, Glenn's Honda two cylinder repair and tune-up guide starts with a general chapter "trouble shooting". Many questions on FB, and also this forum could be avoided when taking the time to just study the first chapter. The same for Chilton's Honda repair and tune-up guide, as for the trouble shooting part in the FSM.
 
jensen said:
A certain level of reading in before asking questions is mandatory, every teacher would go nuts if students didn't self-study before asking questions. And if a students asks a question where the answer is literary described in the for example FSM, the teacher would ask him politely to study it harder.

For example, Glenn's Honda two cylinder repair and tune-up guide starts with a general chapter "trouble shooting". Many questions on FB, and also this forum could be avoided when taking the time to just study the first chapter. The same for Chilton's Honda repair and tune-up guide, as for the trouble shooting part in the FSM.
Click to expand...

I don't really disagree with this. I run into this a lot in my day job. The answer should be a pointer to that. Personally, I can't imagine troubleshooting an engine issue if one doesn't even know how to set timing.

The FSM is quite good. Not perfect, but better than most manuals I've encountered. It reminds me of the manual for my dad's first PC. Like one of the first PC's ever. It had everything in it. Schematics and all. If one understood electronics, they could build it.
 
All books have at least some value in their content. I refer everyone to the FSM's because they're produced by the manufacturer for the people working on their product so accuracy is more important. Yeah, even Honda messes up on some of the stuff. We don't have any aftermarket manuals in the library because HT.net made that mistake and Chilton was ready to sue if they didn't remove any links.
I learned the value of reading and studying the FSM's 50+ years ago during my sometimes brutal apprenticeship. I was allowed 1 dumb question per day, a 2nd one earned a slap upside the head and "what does the book say?" answer. My saving quality was I was the only person that could actually fit inside a Lotus Europa, MG Midget and Mini without weird body contortions, if they could even fit. Europa's were designed for anyone thin, 5' 8" or shorter and I was the only short person in the shop at that height. Everyone else was @6 foot and 250#'s plus.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
All books have at least some value in their content. I refer everyone to the FSM's because they're produced by the manufacturer for the people working on their product so accuracy is more important. Yeah, even Honda messes up on some of the stuff. We don't have any aftermarket manuals in the library because HT.net made that mistake and Chilton was ready to sue if they didn't remove any links.
I learned the value of reading and studying the FSM's 50+ years ago during my sometimes brutal apprenticeship. I was allowed 1 dumb question per day, a 2nd one earned a slap upside the head and "what does the book say?" answer. My saving quality was I was the only person that could actually fit inside a Lotus Europa, MG Midget and Mini without weird body contortions, if they could even fit. Europa's were designed for anyone thin, 5' 8" or shorter and I was the only short person in the shop at that height. Everyone else was @6 foot and 250#'s plus.
Click to expand...

I'm 5'4" and I was the guy who was sitting fetal position in Mazda Miata trunks to check for water leaks as I was the only person who could fit in it. Good thing I'm not claustrophobic :lol:
 
LongDistanceRider said:
I was the only person that could actually fit inside a Lotus Europa without weird body contortions. Europa's were designed for anyone thin, 5' 8" or shorter and I was the only short person in the shop at that height. Everyone else was @6 foot and 250#'s plus.
Click to expand...

I was/am 5'10" and (was) thin. I loved my little Lotus back in the day:

Europa_1978.jpg

Cheers,

Dennis

PS it was much easier with a smaller Momo steering wheel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom