Handlebar Options/Suggestions, Please

[tomeben]

I’ve decided to replace the stock “buckhorn” handlebars on my CM450E, and looking for some background info in fitment- to me, as opposed to the bike. The current bars are comfortable, and have me seated fairly well upright at 6’ tall, so I’m concerned about leaning too far forward for comfort.





Selfies aren’t easy one-handed! I’m seated on the bike with my feet on the pegs.

I like both the 400f and 550f bars that 4into1 has, and the Renthal Street bars which are similar to the StreetFighter bar Jim (LDR) uses. My stock bars are about 7” inside rise, with almost 12” of pull back! Of these three, the 400f (1-1/2”, 2-1/2”) bars would be lowest, then the 550f (2-3/4”, 3”), then Renthal at highest with 4.72” height and 4.13” pull back. All of them are close in width to 28”, and I don’t want to go wider.

My first thought is the Renthal bars since the change may not be so drastic, and I’m curious about the vibration damping aluminum (?), but the 550f replica bars are about half the price. I wasn’t uncomfortable on my Seca 750, nor my VT500 Ascot, which both had bars similar to what I’m looking at - and narrower as I recall. My body, however, no longer flexes as easily as it once did!

What do you think? I won’t be touring on multi-hour/day rides, nor do I want to feel like I’m riding a crotch rocket. Granted this is a lot of personal preference, but I’m curious to hear your thoughts, suggestions, experiences, etc. Thanks!


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[ancientdad]

It's an ongoing "debate" as to comfort and your personal taste/body requirements. I have the 400F bars on my 450 and they're literally perfect for the bike and my needs, but my tank is shorter and I'm closer to the bars than on most bikes so the reach is easy without really leaning. Keep in mind that wind pressure will help with bars that are slightly lower once you're up to speed, but if your rides will be more in traffic like commuting then the lower bars might not be the best for you. Considering the drastic difference between the stock buckhorn bars (which IMO are hideous) and the 400F bars, I'd be inclined to go with the middle choice. The price of Renthals has always caused me to look elsewhere

[Clutch Cargo]

(which IMO are hideous)

Thanks for saying that out loud. Thought I might be the only one.

[ancientdad]

Thanks for saying that out loud. Thought I might be the only one.

Nope, I'm the guy who hates buckhorn bars and forward mounted controls/pegs. It's one big reason (other than a lot of cash profit) I didn't want to keep the garage-find Harley.

[Alan F.]

On my CM400C I ran Bikemaster Daytona bars with cheap 30mm risers and cheap bar end weights. It was a fairly aggressive riding position compared to stock but still comfy enough. I'll find some photos....

[tomeben]

Nope, I'm the guy who hates buckhorn bars and forward mounted controls/pegs.

I’ve never liked the stock bars, or the seat, but I like the motorcycle; perfect overall size and displacement to get me riding again.

(I will say, living in the land of Harley as I do, only an 883r in orange with factory mid-controls, and 2-1 exhaust, has tempted me.)

I’m leaning towards the 550f bars; most of my riding is rural, with very occasional in-town, and rarely ever heavy traffic. I think I’d be ok with the 400f bars, but my brain keeps saying split the difference.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[tomeben]

I'll find some photos....

Thanks, Alan!


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[tomeben]

(which IMO are hideous)

Thanks for saying that out loud. Thought I might be the only one.

You’re not... they’re hideous.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[ancientdad]

I’ve never liked the stock bars, or the seat, but I like the motorcycle; perfect overall size and displacement to get me riding again.

(I will say, living in the land of Harley as I do, only an 883r in orange with factory mid-controls, and 2-1 exhaust, has tempted me.)

I’m leaning towards the 550f bars; most of my riding is rural, with very occasional in-town, and rarely ever heavy traffic. I think I’d be ok with the 400f bars, but my brain keeps saying split the difference.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

Yeah, it's not the bike at all, for me it's just the crazy choice of bars Honda put on some of them. And I hear you on the other Harleys with mid-mounted controls (V-Rod comes to mind as well) but I've never been a Sportster guy at all. I've ridden the now-vintage XLCR back in the day when it was current and the owner (the service manager at the local Harley dealer we bought parts from when I worked at the City of Tampa) thought it would run with my '79 CBX. We went out for a ride and I gave him a 1 bike running start, caught him in 2nd gear and played with the throttle after that, then we stopped and switched bikes. It was fun and pretty fast, but it wasn't stock either, he had Sifton cams in it and a few other things done to it and it was still not overly impressive though it was nimble and light compared to my 625 lb 6 cylinder. To me, the real Harley is the big twin and if I had one I'd find a way to put mid-mounted pegs and controls on it.

But I digress. I agree, for your thinking I think the 550F bars would be the right choice.

[ancientdad]

I'd forgotten about this site, discovered while I was at the other forum by someone there at the time (maybe LDR, outobie, J-T or frogman). Doesn't seem to have your CM450 but it does have the CM400 though I didn't look too deeply into the site setup

http://cycle-ergo.com/

[AndrewJK]

I’ve decided to replace the stock “buckhorn” handlebars on my CM450E, and looking for some background info in fitment- to me, as opposed to the bike. The current bars are comfortable, and have me seated fairly well upright at 6’ tall, so I’m concerned about leaning too far forward for comfort.




(...)

What do you think? I won’t be touring on multi-hour/day rides, nor do I want to feel like I’m riding a crotch rocket. Granted this is a lot of personal preference, but I’m curious to hear your thoughts, suggestions, experiences, etc. Thanks!

Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

Tom, You look quite symetric from Your sideselfie, but usually we are all more unique, thus we all share some level of asymetry. Thus, despite of height and angle of the handlebar, even left/right position can influence this.

Take a look on Dave Moss advices for ergonomic handle bar and controls placement.

[Alan F.]

Here are a few with the Daytona bars, then the 2 with the fairing have risers.
photo.jpgphoto-1.jpgphoto-2.jpgIMG_2524.jpgIMG_2525.jpg

[tomeben]

I've ridden the now-vintage XLCR back in the day when it was current and the owner (the service manager at the local Harley dealer we bought parts from when I worked at the City of Tampa) thought it would run with my '79 CBX.

I had to look up the XLCR; pretty decent looking bike. Though I’m not surprised your CBX walked away from it.

To me, the real Harley is the big twin and if I had one I'd find a way to put mid-mounted pegs and controls on it.

I direct you to the rare FXDXT Dyna Super Glide T Sport; also came with factory mid-controls, or HD’s version of mid.

But I digress. I agree, for your thinking I think the 550F bars would be the right choice.

And now back to our original programming... thanks for that about the 550f bars.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[tomeben]

Take a look on Dave Moss advices for ergonomic handle bar and controls placement.

Thanks! I watched a video of his while researching all of this yesterday; I especially liked “fitting” the levers/controls. It’s what got me thinking I should check into all of this further, instead of just buying the bars I thought looked good.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[tomeben]

Here are a few with the Daytona bars, then the 2 with the fairing have risers.

Thanks for the pics! I like them better with the risers, but can’t tell if they are wider than I prefer; I’ll look up the specs... right now:

Comparable to the Renthal Street bars; 6” high, 32” wide, 4-1/2” pull back, and online for less than half the cost. I think 4into1 sells a Daytona bar also.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[tomeben]

http://cycle-ergo.com/

Thanks, Tom! think I tried this while I was searching info here. It didn’t play well using a mobile device, I’ll try it on the laptop.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[1969 CL350]

I think you’ll be happier with the 550F bars - you’ll have better control than with the buckhorns and feel like you’re riding a real motorcycle...lol. The 400F bars would be a pretty drastic change. As for Sportsters, I have a vintage one and it’s a fun bike, fairly standard riding position with mid pegs and XLX (flat track style) handlebars.

[Alan F.]

Thanks for the pics! I like them better with the risers, but can’t tell if they are wider than I prefer; I’ll look up the specs... right now:

Comparable to the Renthal Street bars; 6” high, 32” wide, 4-1/2” pull back, and online for less than half the cost. I think 4into1 sells a Daytona bar also.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

Yup, and you can find them on ebay at ~$25, I paid $18.99 for the black bars in the pic back in 2001.

[tomeben]

I think you’ll be happier with the 550F bars - you’ll have better control than with the buckhorns and feel like you’re riding a real motorcycle...lol. The 400F bars would be a pretty drastic change. As for Sportsters, I have a vintage one and it’s a fun bike, fairly standard riding position with mid pegs and XLX (flat track style) handlebars.

Thanks, and good to hear it seems I’m thinking about this the right way.

(BONUS: That’s a great looking bike, I’m saving the photo!)


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[ancientdad]

And now back to our original programming... thanks for that about the 550f bars.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

You're getting good at this forum stuff... LOL

And yeah, "their version" of mid-mounted controls. Still forward of where I'd put them, even if not rearset. Besides, I can't afford one of those beasts anyway, my best opportunity was the one that just made me a bunch of money. And the money was a lot more attractive than the bike.

[LongDistanceRider]

Using the Cycle-ergo site it looks like you should lose 8" of pull back and 2" of rise from the stock bars.
Spread: Sit on the bike on the center stand and reach forward in the most comfortable manner for shoulders, arms slightly bent and wrists straight. Measure the spread and done.
Rise: with you hands in the same position measure the height from the bar mount center to center of your palms
Pull back: same as above
Important things: You want your back tipped forward 10-20 degrees from the straight up vertical, known as the Sit and Pray position. You want your elbows to be slightly bent to absorb road shock. You want your wrists to be in the natural straight forward position aligned with your arm.
My Renthal Streetfighter bars get rotated in the mounts depending on riding style, I loosen the clamps and reposition forward or back as needed. Forward for aggressive riding in tight twisty roads where I might scrape a peg and back for easy cruising or rolling around town.

[tomeben]

You're getting good at this forum stuff... LOL

And yeah, "their version" of mid-mounted controls. Still forward of where I'd put them, even if not rearset. Besides, I can't afford one of those beasts anyway, my best opportunity was the one that just made me a bunch of money. And the money was a lot more attractive than the bike.

I have good teachers.
Agreed, there’s very few I’d be tempted to hold on to vs a quick sale in a similar situation.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[tomeben]

Using the Cycle-ergo site it looks like you should lose 8" of pull back and 2" of rise from the stock bars.

(Scroll above for LDR’s entire reply if you’re reading here, great info!)

Perfect, Jim, thank you! You beat me to the cycle-ergo site, but it sounds like something between the Daytona and Renthal would suit me well... maybe the Daytona with some lopped off of each end - I’m sure I don’t want 32” wide bars.

Your point about rotating the bars in their clamps for fit, or riding style, makes sense, too. I was curious about that. Regardless, I’ll do some more sitting and measuring before I order anything new.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[LongDistanceRider]

While we're on this subject let's add bar grip. Most people initially hold the grips WAY too tight (death grip), there's no need to do that since you're not going to fall off.
Proper grip is just enough for control. Sit on the bike and grab the grips, have someone slap your wrist upwards. Your hand should come off. This will allow you to ride for any length time and not have muscle aches.
The too tight of grip affects your hands, forearms, shoulder and neck muscles directly and lower back indirectly. I learned a lot from Harry Wong about this stuff, take a look at this and look up his videos. If you're in the SF Bay Area(CA) then signup for one of his in person classes in Redwood City. http://www.docwong.com/st-clinc/

[tomeben]

While we're on this subject let's add bar grip. Most people initially hold the grips WAY too tight (death grip), there's no need to do that since you're not going to fall off.

Thanks again, and also, for all of this! White knuckles = too tight per Dave Moss.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[ancientdad]

Just as an addendum to that thought, when I had my '75 Gold Wing it was prone to shake its head (wobble) at around 80 mph at times and the solution was to lighten the grip on the bars, though anyone's initial reaction would be the opposite. I told a few others to do it and when they did they reported the same positive results.

[AndrewJK]

If You are planning to run only around, than there is another solution (biker no 5):

[ancientdad]

THAT is some crazy stuff. I found this on Reddit after doing a search, had to know something about the weird handlebar bike.

"Number 2 is Nobatsu Aoki with a GSX-R, an EX-GP500 and MOTOGP rider. Number 5 is Haruchika Aoki, Nabatsu's younger brother who's an ex GP-125 rider. Normally, 8 bikes like Haruchika's 125cc race the same track for 6 laps. Its a betting sport in Japan like horse racing. The bike only has two years (gears, assumedly), one for the start and the other for the rest of the race. Engine comes as one piece from Suzuki. No mechanic allowed in the league to ensure its just the rider's skill. Riders wear an iron slipper on their left foot, which you can see in the video."

[tomeben]

Damn! He’s sure got that thing figured out.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[MechE_13]

That’s hilarious looking. Yellow looks so out of place but cleans house.

[HerrDeacon]

That was pretty wild. If you just saw the bikes lined up at the start you'd never give him a chance of even keeping up, but he was a beast. Such a weird bike and riding style but it works. Skinny little tires too. Felt like I was watching a Monty Python skit.

[Clutch Cargo]

Completely opposing theory to knee dragging, weight inside, lower center of gravity approach! On skinny tires and a hard-tail frame none the less. Maybe MotoGP has it all wrong.

[ancientdad]

Maybe MotoGP has it all wrong.

Oh I don't know about that... when you see them sliding out of corners with the front wheel a few inches off the ground, I'd say they're getting as much out of their frame geometry, horsepower, tires and cojones as you could ever expect. Since this thread has been reasonably solved already, here's an old (2007), low-def compilation of ridiculous riding ability (and if you don't like Nickelback, get ready to mute once it gets going)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPou2w_m4g4

[Clutch Cargo]

...here's an old (2007), low-def compilation of ridiculous riding ability...

Despite getting a bit long in the tooth, these days, you still gotta love Vale! 46

[ancientdad]

Despite getting a bit long in the tooth, these days, you still gotta love Vale! 46

I don't really follow it, I'll watch it for a while if it's on, but yeah... they're all stupid-talented. I'm always amazed to see how ragged the edge is that they ride on.

[tomeben]

Felt like I was watching a Monty Python skit.

As he was passing the last one to take the lead I was half expecting him to reach out and topple the other rider.


Tom - 1982 CM450E
“Noob”, but learning fast.

[HerrDeacon]

As he was passing the last one to take the lead I was half expecting him to reach out and topple the other rider.

[birdland]

I think you’ll be happier with the 550F bars - you’ll have better control than with the buckhorns and feel like you’re riding a real motorcycle...lol. The 400F bars would be a pretty drastic change. As for Sportsters, I have a vintage one and it’s a fun bike, fairly standard riding position with mid pegs and XLX (flat track style) handlebars.

That is beautiful.

[Richard Pitman]

I fitted some Renthal Medium bars to my Hornet some years ago, but soon swapped them for the Ultralows, seen perched on top of the Mediums in this picture. On the Hornet, the Mediums had me sitting too upright, not ideal over 80 mph.

The Mediums ended up on my monkey bike.

[ancientdad]

...not ideal over 80 mph.

You go over 80 mph?? Daredevil !