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CA160 EV Conversion

Good stuff, that's a cool little bolt of electricity design. Now you should backlight it with a soft LED color of your choice when the bike is on.
 
I'm loving the fabrication, can't get enough. wish it were as easy as snapping my fingers though, lol.

I'll have to try it after lunch and see if it works for me.
 
Yup, I was itching to use this new laser cutting service called SendCutSend, so I drew up a lightning bolt in Adobe Illustrator and sent it over. A week later I had the piece, I cut it to the shape, and welded it in. Looks awesome!

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Onto the wiring! Finally! No more putting it off

First thing I did was add the necessary pre-charge resistor and protection diode to the main contactor (it's like a super huge relay for switching the power on/off between battery and motor controller, and it works exactly like the starter solenoid under you car's hood). The precharge resistor goes between the main lugs and is required by the motor controller, and the protection diode goes between the coil lugs and it prevents a voltage spike when the contactor is turned off and the magnetic field is collapsed.

PXL_20220407_224045901.jpg


Before I could any further, I needed a wiring diagram. Duh! I was going to work off of this one from another builder with very similar parts as mine: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=109761&p=1610494#p1610612

But when I was looking closer, I saw that the full 72v was applied to the contactor's smaller lugs, and not 12v as I was expected. And that got me thinking...

It turns out that the 72v contactor that I bought from Kelly (KZJ400A) doesn't mean that the main lugs are rated for 72v - it means that the coil is rated for 72v. I confirmed this myself by trying to open it with a 12v lead acid battery (didn't open) and then my 72 battery pack (opened with a nice kick!).

Only problem with that is that I really don't want to run 72v through my kill switch and my ignition (key) switch. I've seen from a few people that they were able to run the 72 volts (it's only drawing an amp or less) through the OEM switch without problems. But my ignition switch was actually made for a 6v circuit! And then there's the kill switch, which has an interal LED that would go up in smoke if given 72 volts.

So I ordered a different contactor. I got this TE LEV200 but off Ebay for only $70 including shipping, and is shipped from within my country and not from overseas. I thought that was a fair price, EVwest has similar style contactors selling for $169. It arrived in the mail today.

Here's my wiring diagram for the 12v contactor:

72v-wiring-diagram.png


While I was waiting for the new part to get in the mail, I started wiring the throttle. There's 6 wiring coming out of the throttle, three for the throttle itself and three for the switch that I'm planning on using for the turn signals. And holy hell are the wires tiny!

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Working with wires this small really sucks. The wires that I bought to build the wiring harness are 16 gauge, and these tiny wires must be like 24 gauge. So making a connection between the two sizes is tricky.

The first connector I tried was a crimp on connector with a heat-shrink layer around it. I think I got it connected fairly well, but I really needed to squeeze hard on the side with the smaller wire. And then when I used a heat gun to shrink the heat-shrink, it exposed cuts that I accidentally made with the pliers.

PXL_20220408_020058911.jpg


And you REALLY don't want these wires to short out, because if they do then the motor controller will see the full 5v which is WIDE OPEN THROTTLE! (This is also why the kill switch is important).

So I cut off those connectors and tried another one: a heat shrink tube with a low-temp solder ring. This worked really well.

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My next challenge is to get the other end of the wire into the connector that plugs into the motor controller. They gave me all the little parts so assemble it myself. Going to be fun. :rolleyes:

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So that is as far as I got. Not very far!
 
It's been a while but last April I got the motor controller programmed and the motor/wheel is spinning great! Video. But it shows a new problem I will have to deal with in the future: balance the wheel. The normal way to do that won't work with the hub motor.

Last night I started working on the battery enclosure. I think it's going to look really good!

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I should have used a shrinking die to put a rounded edge instead of a sharp 90 degree angle. But at least I put a step bead around the perimeter.

I'm going to paint the battery enclosure black, fill in the center of the sides of the enclosure with some aluminum with a pattern cut into it, and I'll have sendcutsend.com make them. It should look pretty sharp when it's all done.

I have by the end of the month to get this bike ready for a big car show that I attend every year. It's the Rev-It-Up Hot Rod Hubalu in Lawrence, KS, if anyone wants to see the bike in person :)
 
What's the reason normal methods of wheel balancing won't work?

I think that the normal procedure is to take the wheel off the bike, put it on the balancing stand or something similar, and give it a little spin. The wheel will freely rotate thanks to the wheel bearings, and will naturally stop spinning when the heavy side is on bottom. But this won't work for me because instead of wheel bearing inside the hub, their are large magnets and coils and brushes and all that stuff inside an electric motor, and it's doesn't spin without a little force given to it.

Another possible way to balance the wheel is to buy a tool that is shaped like a cone, pointy side up, with a spring or something below it. The wheel sits on it horizontally by placing the hub's axle hole onto the cone. If the wheel wobbles to one side or the other then it's not balanced. This again won't work with my hub because the axle cannot be removed.

That's looking good.
Sounds like your rear wheel is a candidate for the Dyna Beads https://www.innovativebalancing.com/

I'm glad you brought this up because I saw that stuff but was a little skeptical. But a personal recommendation goes a long way!
 
You don't need to remove wheel to measure trueness, measure at the swing arm. I assume it's within 2mm up and down and side to side. If not, that is the first priority.
 
You don't need to remove wheel to measure trueness, measure at the swing arm. I assume it's within 2mm up and down and side to side. If not, that is the first priority.

The discussion was about wheel balance, not truing the rim, hence the suggestion of the Dyna Beads.
 
True,:) sorry to distract.

No worries or distraction, just wanted you to know the actual focus. This project has gone on longer than I'm sure he expected and he's been keeping us in suspense for a while now during a new baby late last year as well as a new garage addition in his backyard before that... so hopefully he'll wrap this thing up one day soon so we can see another cool video from him - of it going down the road.
 
No worries or distraction, just wanted you to know the actual focus. This project has gone on longer than I'm sure he expected and he's been keeping us in suspense for a while now during a new baby late last year as well as a new garage addition in his backyard before that... so hopefully he'll wrap this thing up one day soon so we can see another cool video from him - of it going down the road.

Agreed. There is an artist at work. Lovely shapes.
 
Here's the progress on the battery enclosure. It's now ready for paint!



I used a bead roller to create the step bead.





I also used the bead roller to create an overlap so that the two halves could fit together and also be water tight. And I welded in nuts, there are 17 bolts altogether, to keep it strong and to spread out the load.





I used 18ga sheet steel, so before I welded on the brackets that would bolt to the frame, I wanted to add a little more meat for welding onto. So I made these 16ga pieces ("fish" plates?). In hind sight, it looks a little ugly, not sure what I could have done differently though.





I bolted the bracket pieces to the frame, then put the metal encluse in place and where I wanted, then put a few tack welds on, then removed it and finish welded everything off the bike.







I think it looks really good and I'm very happy with it, can't wait to put on the paint! Will probably need to do a little bondo first, though. 16 days until the car show that I'm trying to get this bike ready for!
 
Looks good, have you decided on paint colors.

After looking at it for a minute it dawned on my why it looks so familliar. Honda Navi has a weather resistant cargo box in that spot.

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I'd leave a brushed/polished/ clear coated border edge. Show off that fine craftsmanship. Nice low center of gravity. Awaiting your footpeg reveal.
 
I painted the battery enclosure with the same paint as the bike frame, black 2-part urethane single-stage paint from Eastwood. I then wet sanded and buffed. I may add something to the enclosure's sides, such as laser cut aluminum, or decals, some silver paint, or something. But I'm not sure yet, I'm just letting the black paint do its job.



I used these "dinse" style connectors, like what you see on a TIG welding machine, to act as bulkheads for the enclosure. I haven't seen another builder use these before, but it should work pretty well. And I used this socket for the charge port.



Here is a closeup of the connector. I slipped terminal covers over the connectors' metal bolts for added protection on the inside of the enclosure.



And here it is all bolted to the frame and looking great!



More to come very soon!
 
Time to wire everything together!!



Here is my final version of the wiring diagram:



This is excluding anything that is not required to get the wheel spinning. So, no headlight, taillight, horn, etc. (I still wired up the headlight, tail light, and brake light, just didn't need to see a diagram for that. No turn signals and horn, yet.)

Then I re-arranged the diagram to organize it into the sections of the bikes where the wires would go, this helped me to visualize it while I was doing the wiring, and this is the diagram I kept open while wiring the bike:



The contactor is located deep into the frame, under the seat. I connected all the wires to it before bolting it into place, and there were many of them because I used one of the  large lugs as a distribution terminal for the 72v circuit.



I didn't want to do this at first, but I finally accepted what had to be done. I had to cut and drill holes in the top of the gas tank for some of the components. But I must say, it does look good! (I ended up not keeping the label bellow the rocker switch and LED).





I had access to the back of the motor controller via the hole in the other side of the frame, that made it easy to access the wire lugs. I then covered the hole with a re-purposed chrome Honda clutch cover that I found in a parts bin.



Almost done now!!



Now it was time to put it all to the test, go through the first-startup procedure, and then program the Kelly controller.

Here are the steps I followed to get the wheel spinning and get the controller programmed correctly:



  • * Wire up everything but have the contactor switched off
    * connect the battery ground to B-
    * switch on the contactor
    * ensure that the motor turns when the throttle is lightly applied, in either direction
    * open the program and connect to the controller (will take a few tries?)
    * set all the motor parameters (# of poles, etc)
    * set the identification angle to 170
    * save:

    • * write
      * read again and check that its still there
      * quit the program
      * disconnect the battery
      * wait 3+ seconds
      * connect the battery again


    * the motor should begin moving, this is the identification angle function working
    * wait about three minutes and wait until you hear a beeping noise from the control. This is the "reset error" telling you that it needs to be reset again. You can connect to the bluetooth adapter with the app to verify this error code.
    * disconnect the battery from the controller and wait 3+ seconds
    * reconnect battery
    * open config program
    * read the parameters
    * check that the identification angle has been changed to 85
    * check that the motor turns when given throttle
    * check full speed!
    * set all the vehicle parameters in the config software, save, reset, etc.


I found that when I got to step 4, the throttle would not cause the motor to spin. This worried me, but I discovered that it was because the "three way switch" option was enabled. And neither pins for reverse or forward were getting 12v, so it assumed neutral and therefor did not spin the motor.

How to use the bluetooth adapter and Kelly's AC Aduser android app:



  • * scan for bluetooth devices before powering up the controller
    * power up the controller
    * scan for bluetooth devices again and look for a new one, it might be labelled 20102202 or something
    * the PIN is 1234
    * open the AC Aduser app
    * select Bluetooth com
    * connect by pressing the leftmost black button, then tap the numbers
    * press the 3rd button from the left, to read
    * change the parameters where needed
    * press the rightmost button for write
    * press the 2nd to left button, to disconnect


Here are some of my parameters that I configured:



  • * set the nominal motor current to 90 (this is used by the angle identification function).
    * set the battery current limit to 60%. My battery can do 60 amps continuous, the controller can do 100 amps continuous. The rest of the math is pretty simple.
    * max speed can be set to 1140 - because that’s max rpm of my motor. FYI 1140rpm for a ~23 inch diameter wheel will give me a theoretical top speed of 78 mph. I'll want to balance the rear wheel before I do anything near that!
    * accell time should be 10 (thousands of a second)
    * keep these as set up from factory: torque speed kp, torque speed kj, speed error limit
 
After the wiring was finished, there was nothing more I could do with the bike still on the table I built for it.

Down on the ground at last! It sat on the table for nearly two years, and once it was on the ground, holy cow! It was suddenly so low looking.







I charged it for just a few minutes (first time ever, even while the batteries sat for nearly two years, which is not good) and then I went on a quick test ride. Everything seemed to work just fine, only there was a little noise coming from the front wheel because, in my haste, I hadn't attached the front brake linkage and this caused a lot of noise to come from the front hub. I secured the front brake to the fork but that was all I had time for that night.



The test drive was extremely short but very promising. It was completely silent except for a little tire noise, some wind noise, and the clanking coming from the front hub. I only got up to about 30mph, but to my surprise I didn't experience any strange effects from having worn out shocks and an extremely heavy rear wheel that is also badly out of balance.

The next morning I took it to the big car & motorcycle show I was working so hard to get it ready for. Thankfully the show was only three blocks from my house because the bike didn't have any foot pegs yet!



When I was leaving the show, I got on the road and once I was clear of the spectators, I goosed the throttle pretty good. Wow it was fast! Much faster than my 200cc Honda CL200, and I wasn't even all the way on the throttle. But immidiatly after that the power started to cut out and the motor shut off, the analog voltmeter was reading zero, and I coasted to a stop. I had to push the bike the two remaining blocks home.

The next day I plugged in the charger and after a few minutes I turned on the bike and it was acting like everything was normal again. But I couldn't charge it for long as I had meet my folks for lunch, and I don't yet want to charge it unattended.

What I believe happened is that the batteries where too low and when I gave it full throttle, it caused a large voltage sag that was enough to trip the battery management system and it shut down the battery. I could have proven this if I had thought to check the battery pack voltage, and if it was reading zero than this theory should be correct.

I need to charge it for a many hours and then give it another test drive. But I want to get some foot pegs before I do any more testing. Gotta walk before you can run, I guess.

When the bike was at the show, the analog gauge was saying the battery was at 50%. The gauge is not a typical voltmeter, it is volt charge meter and the manufacturer (Kelly) says it "indicates from ~80% peak voltage to peak voltage of the battery, corresponding to 0%-100%." I bought the 72v meter because I believed that was what I needed, but now I think I should have bought the 84v meter because that is the peak voltage of my pack, 72v is only the nominal voltage. 80% of 72 is 57, so when the battery is at 57 volts, it will say it is 0%. And when the pack is at 72v, it will say it's at 100%, but the below chart says it's more like 10% charge. (?!)



If I bought the 84v charge meter, 0% would indicate 67v. A difference of 10 volts. I believe I need to order the 84v meter to replace the 72v meter.
 
And 65v would indicate 50% on the 72v charge meter (.9 x 72), and the chart above says that is less than 5%. So the battery pack was nearly dead when I thought it was at 50%! Yeah, I'm definitely going to order the 84v charge meter.
 
Awaiting your footpeg reveal.

Me too! I thought about it all day today and went back and forth several times about how I want to do it, but I think I've settled on hacking up the original footpegs and welding them to brackets that will get bolted to the muffler hangers. I wish I thought ahead a little while constructing the battery enclosure, I could easy bolt it to the bottom of it but now it's too late for that.
 
Minor complications considering the journey and the extent to which you've modified the original bike's design. The overall result is really nice Danny, I must admit I had my doubts about the project initially but you've done a really good job on it especially considering the uncharted territory you've gone into. (y)
 
I'm slowly taking the bike further from home and at faster speeds. 40 mph and the rear wheel and suspension is still very smooth! I can't believe it .

Yesterday I did find a gremlin, the plastic connector for the dc-dc converter came loose, causing the contactor to open and the bike lost power. It was because the connector is located between the tank and the headlight bucket, so turning the front fork tugged on the wires and caused it to come loose. I fixed it with a zip tie.

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Looks great! Watched some of your you tubes to learn more about parts you used. Thanks for sharing your fun here. Nice that the back wheel doesn't even look like a motor, and it's got spokes and keep it looking old school. That was very daring of you to make your own battery pack! I've been tinkering with some of the small lithium 18550 rechargable batteries and they are nice to work with. I just recently picked up 2 100W solar panels from harbor freight on a whim. Then I found 2 100AH 12v deep discharge lead acid batteries on craigslist for $100, I guess they were from a electric riding mower or something. Those batteries weigh a ton compared to lithium and I have learned they have 100's of cycles compared to 1000's for lithium. But price was right for something to just learn and experiment with. I picked up a newer $40 300W sine inverter and that along with one of those batteries was able to run an old freezer in the garage. Some people at work are driving some electric bikes this summer. And my youngest son has a hybrid car. So, yes, got to keep up with the times ;)
 
New video is on youtube!


A few things I'm working on:

- I'm working on adding turn signals. Makes me too nervous to ride around the city without turn signals at all.
- I think I want to put an aluminum rim on the front wheel to match the rear wheel.
- the front drum brakes are terrible.
 
Question! Should the aluminum part that houses the speedometer gear in the center of the hub be able to spin freely around the axle (if not for the speedo cable), or should it be tightened down somehow?

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The speedo cable is now too long because the new handlebars are much lower. When I hit bumps in the road, the change in suspension can cause the wheel to tug on the speedo cable, since it is loose. And on one occasion, after going down an extremely bumpy road, the extra length in the speedo cable got wrapped up and jammed between the rim and the fork.

Some is true for the brake cable on the other side but it doesn't cause as much problems for some reason.

Anybody know of a similar Honda model but with shorter brake and speedo cables?
 
And I have another question: once the speed gets up to about 30mph, the speedo jumps up to 40mph, and starts making a lot more noise. If the bike wasn't totally silent, the noise wouldn't be an issue or even audible, but it's pretty annoying on this electric bike. I never oiled the speedo cable because the seller said it was pre-oiled. Should I take it off and add some lub? What should I use? I rebuilt the speedometer itself so I'm hoping that it is not the source of the noise.
 
Danny, The speedo drive is held from rotating by the axle torque......You have too many bends in it.....
Run it more like this earlier picture, rotating the drive to give a "soft" bow under the fork's rockers and take up the "extra" slack.....
It could end up with the cable pointing straight down at the drive, but that will be OK......Then re-tighten the axle.....
Handlebar height has nothing to do with the speedo cable......

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Danny, The speedo drive is held from rotating by the axle torque...... re-tighten the axle.....

It was finger tight... OOPS. I found that right after posting my questions. I guess I was a little excited to get the front wheel on and get the bike on the ground and go for a spin around the block. But thankfully the axle was never in danger of slipping off the fork because of the bolts clamping it to the front suspension.

You have too many bends in it.....
Run it more like this earlier picture, rotating the drive to give a "soft" bow under the fork's rockers and take up the "extra" slack.....
It could end up with the cable pointing straight down at the drive, but that will be OK...

I did just that and it is much quieter now! BTW the reason it had that sharp bend in it was because I didn't want it to get sucked up into the fender again, because the axle nut was not torqued. But now that is not a problem anymore.

Handlebar height has nothing to do with the speedo cable......

I feel so stupid lol
 
Danny, I know I've already said it but this whole project turned out really well. For someone who previously had no experience with the conversion, you've done a great job of gathering and utilizing the components necessary to make it happen, and you've done a great job putting it all together. It's really nice to see it all come to fruition.
 
This project is unbelievable, amazing work. It's so nice that you were able to maintain the bike's original look and seamlessly incorporate the electrical magic. This is the model of how to do this for anyone planning on doing it to theirs.
 
Truly an exceptional project. Well conceived and well executed.
 
Photos

I always finish my projects like this by going out and taking some glamor shots.

But first lets get to what everyone has been asking for:


  • top speed: 55mph (88kph)
  • range: 20 miles (32 kilometers)
    • without regen braking activated
    • thats on used, old batteries, new batteries would probably get 30 to 40 miles.
I need to program the motor controller again and activate the regen mode so I can see how many more miles that would add to the range, but my wife is learning how to ride it (the bike is for her) and that would just make it more complicated I think.

Ok now for the photos!























Riding it is really a joy! It's so smooth a silent, it's honestly like a really heavy bicycle that is magically self-propelled. Riding it just puts a smile on my face, it's a very pleasant experience. It's also much faster and quicker than my 200cc bike, but without any of the drama. You just hit the throttle and you're suddenly faster than traffic and there was no quake from the engine and roar from the exhaust. So the thrill is very different than that of a conventional bike with a gas engine.

Another big difference is, when someone sees it in a parking lot, instead of asking the usual "what year is it?" they ask "how fast can it go?"

My favorite is when someone sees it, someone who knows nothing about motorcycles, and they just look at it and see a nicely restored but otherwise normal, classic motorcycle. They don't even realize that it doesn't have a gasoline engine. And I guess that affirms that my design goal was met: make it look like Honda made an electric motorcycle in 1967.
 
Well done! You have achieved your goal -- it is an work of art.
 
Yup, definitely a work of art, got to love black and chrome. You must get some interesting looks and comments. Your wife will love the attention.
 
Gonna sound like an echo but Danny, you did do a great job on it all the way around. The bike looks fabulous.
 
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