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'Clunk clunk clunk' somewhere in the front end

Ribrickulous

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Total Posts
1,698
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Location
Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posting this here but may need to go in wheels?

I've been noticing a clunking sound from my front end, I haven't been able to pinpoint it yet because it only happens when I'm moving the bike, and is much more rapid when the wheel is turned.

When the bars are straight, it's maybe once a wheel rotation, but I wasn't measuring by any pace. When the bars are turned, it's more rapid, can get a few in quick succession, and you feel them in the bars.

There's a similar clunking noise when I go over a speed bump or a manhole thats a little too deep too fast, but I assumed that's normal for the bike.

I could post a phone video, but I don't believe it would help pinpoint any more than the description. Will upload if it's helpful.

Any ideas where to start looking here? Both the front wheel bearing and the steering bearings were replaced by the shop I garage at. Going to give them a chance to look at it tomorrow as well...
 
So wheel rotation has nothing to do with the sound?

I couldn’t pick up a correlation between the wheel rotating and the clunk. It does show up with the bars straight, which is what’s throwing me somewhat.

It’s much more pronounced with the bars turned.

Gotta be the steering bearing, right?


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
I couldn’t pick up a correlation between the wheel rotating and the clunk. It does show up with the bars straight, which is what’s throwing me somewhat.

It’s much more pronounced with the bars turned.

Gotta be the steering bearing, right?


Ed
1972 Honda CL350

It really depends on how the noise manifests itself. You mentioned going over bumps, which might point to the steering head bearings. If they've come loose a bit, the forks would move the slack in the bearings over bumps. But if the bike makes the noise while moving it in the garage with no bumps involved, but magnified with the bars turned one way or the other... that could be somewhere else, like maybe wheel bearings. Do the front brakes still feel the same? No change there?
 
No change in the brakes since I put them in >1,000 miles ago.

I don’t think the clunk from the bumps and this clunk (gotta differentiate your clunks) are related, but that’s just me spitballing. The bump clunk has always been there. Could something with the brakes cause that?

The bars turned clunk is fairly new, but not getting worse.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
PS - I know this is a pain in the butt problem to troubleshoot over the internet, a lot of work planned this weekend, just looking for ideas where to start.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
It's a tough one. I'd put it on the centerstand and, with the front wheel straight, get in front of the front wheel and try to push the wheel backwards straight toward the bike. If the neck is loose you'll feel the movement. Check the fork caps to be sure they're tight and you don't have movement in the axle/wheel complete within the forks. Just keep stirring the gray matter for ideas of what in the front end can come loose.

And maybe get a video of it
 
I traced a noise I thought was my front wheel, to a tight spot in my chain making a little noise every time it went around.
 
Turning the wheel changing/speeding up the sound makes me initially think cable issues of some kind. Is a cable bumping the tire somehow (someone else was having rubbing issues at some point)? Is the speedo cable securely in the brake cover? Missing a tooth in the speedo gears? Weird one...
 
I would start with the stem bearings, IIRC you used the tapered bearings so a simple preload adjustment may take care of it. If I'm wrong and you're using the original ball bearings you should disassemble to clean and inspect each ball and the races for any damage.
If the clunk is still present after that then I would be taking a hard look at the wheel bearings followed by the forks.
 
"Clunk clunk clunk" somewhere in the front end

Looks like the axle was a little loose - it has some lateral play in it when on the center stand and a buddy of mine is pressing down on the rear of the bike.

Yikes.

I assume the fender held the forks together to prevent it from going any further, but still.

Will be looking at a fix tomorrow in addition to the top end work I have planned.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
If the axle is loose, know that as long as the fork caps are bolted on tight, the wheel can't go anywhere as both ends of the axle are clamped. Still the looseness is a bit disconcerting.
 
There should be NO lateral play wheel on axle.....
IF you correctly inserted the axle from the wheel's right side, the wheel spacer should prevent any movement to the right.....
On the left side, the washer built into the axle "nut"and against the brake-plate spaces/centers the wheel.....
With axle correctly torqued, both sides should be tight against the inner flats at the bottom of the fork sliders.....
IF NOT, your forks are splayed or bent......
 
I would have loved to see the look on your face when you found that.
 
Loose axle was my first though but decided to look through replys before jumping in. I've seen wheel bumping into fork legs because axle was loose (one guy on a CBR900 even forgot to tighten up brake caliper bolts, and it was his bike :rolleyes:)
On CB350, make sure axle is fitted from correct side and fully torqued then make sure end caps are fitted properly
 
Would the wheel had to have come off if the steering bearing was replaced?

Trying to figure out how this happened. The last time I had it off I remember the axle was overtorqued, and I had to go back to back it off somewhat.

I did have the garage replace the steering bearing recently.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Wheel was likely pulled, but axle was not necessarily touched or removed......
Garage or motorcycle shop?
Were fork bottom caps reinstalled correctly? (gaps to rear?)
 
Motorcycle shop. Good point, axle likely wasn’t removed. Didn’t check fork caps, will check today.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Wheel was likely pulled, but axle was not necessarily touched or removed......
Garage or motorcycle shop?
Were fork bottom caps reinstalled correctly? (gaps to rear?)

Sprint ...I do not want to hijack this thread but what do you mean by "gaps to rear" ?? Just had my front wheel off and is back on and i did not notice any difference in symmetry of caps.
 
They’re different. It’s subtle, though some have arrows stamped on them indicating which direction is the front.

If I had to
Guess it like 1/16” gap at the rear.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
33e4e83bbda565e66cdd2149b8c2d350.jpg


Gap toward the rear [emoji1303]


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Sprint ...I do not want to hijack this thread but what do you mean by "gaps to rear" ?? Just had my front wheel off and is back on and i did not notice any difference in symmetry of caps.

This is what he's talking about, just as they are on Ribrickulous' forks above, short side of cap to the rear

axle cap.png
 
Got it!!!! Thanks everyone! Steve thanks for speaking to me by phone! One of mine is on wrong and I will fix it. Didn't mean to hijack.:lol:
 
I've always taught techs to remove wheel.
Leaving it in fork legs when doing steering bearings looks like it saves time but the chance of wheel rolling and damaging something is too high in my opinion plus, it takes longer to line everything up on re-assembly. You also have to lift front end much higher to get steering stem out of frame with wheel in place, very difficult without some sort of overhead lifting gear
 
Alright, well the clunk is back with a vengeance.

I want to be clear - the wheel feels stable (no wobble back and forth), and rotates freely. Here are the data points I’ve gathered, and some videos and photos:

- this clunk is there all the time, but is most noticeable when I’m coasting to a stop with the clutch in (lowest engine noise and vibration).
- it’s noticeable in the handlebars as a slight tick
- I can reproduce it by locking the bars and forcing the wheel right to left
- after noticing it, I had the wheel apart, cleaned and relubed the axle
- I’m missing one of the two speedometer gear washers - could this be the cause? Number three indicated by the blue arrow below
- axle torqued to 45 ft-lbs using a crowfoot (90 degrees to the wrench). While doing this I engaged the brakes with a zip tie to center everything.
- the clunk goes away while coasting to a stop if I apply the front brake gently (or hard)
- axle cushions and front brake stay torqued to spec (I can’t recall what it is, 18 ft-lbs maybe?)
- front nut on the cushions were torqued first
- after pulling away from the garage, it was back within a block


63ce477f965b427cf71c8c8875e8a105.plist

3a188cbd0e4e3e78d8756a6a4faa3dd7.jpg

87afc4b22151a1ef35ece07fecd32ec9.jpg

1e1c92ce72e0e62680f3a66ee796e29f.jpg



https://vimeo.com/461187718


https://vimeo.com/461187821

I feel like the bike is safe to ride, but it’s concerning to say the least.

One of the mechanics did mention one of the spokes sounded slightly loose, but didn’t make much of a deal of it.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Maybe it's just the video, but it sounds like more than just a clunk to me, it sounds like something that should be pretty easy to isolate and identify. And I've never heard one spoke make that much noise ever, not repeatedly. Bearing? Again, I think I asked you before. It just sounds like that to me. And what's up with the torque strap bolt lock tab, the tab is supposed to go in the first hole in the strap... dude. :rolleyes:
 
"Clunk clunk clunk" somewhere in the front end

I know I know. I realized what I did when I got home.

Re: bearings - what would cause a bearing to go bad so fast? They were installed in Mid-June.

Maybe all of 3-400 miles ago?

Edit: I don’t think the spoke has anything to do with it either, just something that was mentioned, figured I’d include it.

Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
While you're looking at things, unscrew the fork caps and make sure the upper end of the damper rods are still attached.

Worth a look I suppose, but the front brake causing the sound to Go away has me thinking it’s something in the wheel.

Maybe fork tubes are slightly bent?

Visually they look fine, but I suppose a small bend wouldn’t be noticeable but could effect something “down-tube”?


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
I'll make my guess that it's a bearing that isn't sitting secure in the hub. Maybe the seat is distorted and there is a little play?
 
To my fairly ignorant ear it sounds like a spoke issue. It has that spoke "twang". Nipple popping in/out of its seat a bit maybe as you move the rim right and left. Maybe it goes away when you brake because you are first slowing down the hub, which is then applying twisting force on the spokes, tightening up the trailing ones (and loosening the leading ones). I've seen spokes wear into each other where they cross; could be a spoke popping in/out of the valley it's made in its buddy.

I didn't wager in the T-shirt-to-AD thread but this seems like a pretty good bet to me.
 
Just an unrelated comment, but your front brake cams (or arms) look way out of alignment. Does your brake work well? Normally the linkage would be adjusted so the arms would be parallel when both cam flats are resting equally on the brake shoe ends.

10536ECB-1032-43CD-A174-2AE3E59D8DC9.jpg
 
The shim missing from speedo gear shouldn't cause that - unless the drive arms are damaged and 'sticking' on the drive dog then letting go? Have you tried removing the gear completely? (I don't remember if you have to remove oil seal first, been a long time since I did one)
Wathed the video's, it's a weird noise.
The fact it isn't completely rythmic when your pushing bike along does make it a bit more challenging.
Could also be a bearing damaged , spacer between bearings missing or not fitted the right way around?
Definitely has a spoke/spring sound to it though. Have you checked hub for any cracks?
The brake torque arm lock 'washer' isn't fitted properly but I guess you knew that after having wheel on and off so frequently.
The front brake adjuster rod is easiest to adjust by first loosening locknut and making sure everything turns free then wrapping a bungee around grip/lever and using a large adjustable (or pipe wrench with rag wrapped around jaws) to move the 'short 'arm so brake show contacts drum. Adjust link rod so it's just nipped up and re-lock lock nuts
 
Just an unrelated comment, but your front brake cams (or arms) look way out of alignment. Does your brake work well? Normally the linkage would be adjusted so the arms would be parallel when both cam flats are resting equally on the brake shoe ends.]

You know, I noticed this when putting the hub back together. When I took it apart they were parallel, but when re-assembling I had to loosen the linkage to get the tick marks to line back up where they were.

I’ll take a closer look on Saturday. And yes, the brakes do work fine.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
The shim missing from speedo gear shouldn't cause that - unless the drive arms are damaged and 'sticking' on the drive dog then letting go? Have you tried removing the gear completely? (I don't remember if you have to remove oil seal first, been a long time since I did one)
Wathed the video's, it's a weird noise.
The fact it isn't completely rythmic when your pushing bike along does make it a bit more challenging.
Could also be a bearing damaged , spacer between bearings missing or not fitted the right way around?
Definitely has a spoke/spring sound to it though. Have you checked hub for any cracks?
The brake torque arm lock 'washer' isn't fitted properly but I guess you knew that after having wheel on and off so frequently.
The front brake adjuster rod is easiest to adjust by first loosening locknut and making sure everything turns free then wrapping a bungee around grip/lever and using a large adjustable (or pipe wrench with rag wrapped around jaws) to move the 'short 'arm so brake show contacts drum. Adjust link rod so it's just nipped up and re-lock lock nuts

PJ, thanks for the response.

I didn’t try removing the gear completely, but will come Saturday. Just start changing things until the noise goes away. The speedo works fine, so I assume that gear isn’t contributing - if there was a broken tooth or something rattling around I think the sound would be less rythmic.

I watched the video again, it’s pretty regular until the bike straightens out, in other words, if the bike isn’t completely flat on the wheel, the sound shows up. Maybe it’s the bearing slipping around on the seat as Pepper mentions above.

What do you mean about the bearing spacer not fitted the right way around? I didn’t do the bearing job last time, but put a new set on order in case I need to. From right to left I have: axle, axle collar, seal, r bearing, spacer, l bearing, hub, axle sleeve/nut.

Can that spacer between bearings be put in backwards?

Thanks for the tip on install.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Worth a look I suppose, but the front brake causing the sound to Go away has me thinking it’s something in the wheel.

Maybe fork tubes are slightly bent?

Visually they look fine, but I suppose a small bend wouldn’t be noticeable but could effect something “down-tube”?



Ed
1972 Honda CL350


Might as well pull the drain screws also and drain the mud out of the fork legs so you can get fresh oil in there.
 
...When I took it apart they were parallel, but when re-assembling I had to loosen the linkage to get the tick marks to line back up where they were.

If the tick marks are lined up and the brake arms are that far off parallel, something's got to be up with your brakes; the springs on the pads should hold those cams in the correct position when there's no braking force applied. I'm changing my wager from a spoke issue to a brake issue. I'm suspecting something spring related... That noise is too loud for a spoke twang, it's a spring twang. Good luck.
 
Thanks. Prize for the correct answer is not my lost 10mm socket, because I haven’t lost it. Yet.

Will come up with something for the winner.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
If it's at all useful, here're some pics from when I replaced my front pads. Unfortunately, I didn't seem to get any of the hub.

bf3e4d9cba68ca05d0571aedd0f9af23.jpg

0cdf93c5d2fbffa8c8a6fc85406432fe.jpg

127fad5d39410139f27e978c669153d3.jpg
 
From your pictures it all looks good, brake arms are parallel but link is too loose although you can't really judge it without pressure on operating cams
Brake may appear to work fine but could well be operating on one shoe only, it will be obvious when you pull wheel apart on weekend as contact of brake will be less on rear shoe. Look inside hub as well, looking for 'witness marks' where something is catching. If dapmer rod bolts in fork are loose, you'll know as there will be an oil leak (unless all the oil already leaked out)
You could also try adjusting brake as you wouldn't need to dismantle anything plus it needs checking anyway.
 
I guess I didn't completely understand what is going on... I thought this happened when the wheel was turning, but I hear the noise and the wheel isn't turning at all.
 
I found that I can generate some kind of noise by moving the wheel side to side.

It’s gripped in a lift in the video, and I’m pressing the bike side to side gently.


Ed
1972 Honda CL350
 
Pull that wheel off and see what's what. Something is at least goofy with your brakes. I'm ready to see a [Solved] on this one (as I'm sure you are) :)
 
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