• Don't overlook our Welcome Package, it contains many links to important and helpful information about functions at VHT like posting pictures and sending PMs (private messages), as well as finding the parts you need.

    AD

Mousetown, my own 73 CL350

Ooh, I like those, and, about $45.00 cheaper than they were 10~15 years ago
They're not Akronts or Campagnolo, for sure.
I think they're a bit old stock, Sun rims from Asia somewhere. I bought some skinny 17 and 18's for my C200 and CB160 but haven't got round to building those. Need more winters :ROFLMAO: . They seem pretty decent for the price especially. Might need rim washers for the thinner spoke nipples on these.
 
Ah, if holes are for 8mm nipples they are MX rims.
Not a problem, I made some tools to dome and drill washers long time ago when I was building wheels pretty regular
Could be. ICR for sure now, the 160 spokes/nipples might be good but the little 90's bikes got even smaller nipples, 5mm I think, or less. Dome-ing washers on a snowy evening sounds relaxing.
 
Ahem, the wider rim improves handling on a stock width tire.
Looks like Buchanan’s may be the way to go.
Thanks RR for kindly pointing out my erroneous rim width understanding. I'm now contemplating options while looking at my front wheel with a very fat (almost 3 5/8"overall) IRC GS11, 3.25-19 on a 1.60 rim. To me it looks more overstuffed than waistlines at a 50 year high school reunion. It's just not right.
CppCASJl.jpg


I'm trying to ignore it but it bugs me.

There is just one 1.85-19 DID steel rim on ebay for about $165 shipped. I could keep my tire then.
There are no, none IRC GS11's in 3.00, only Metzler and Mitas. Just not excited about them.
I almost wish I'd gone with Shinko 241 GoldenBoy trials type in 2.75 front and 3.50 Rear.
 
I bought a 10 pack of these 3 1/2" O-rings to replace the rubber gauge cushion surrounds. They are 1/8" thick but maybe the 3/16" might fit better. $10 versus around $80 for OEM is more my speed, on a non-critical part. The gauge at the top has one in it. The old rubber is lower right and it's mate crumbled when removed.

9Uibwov.jpg



These OEM plug caps survived because they were wrapped like a mummy in electrical tape. Glad to have useable non-resistor caps.

XX99lDq.jpg



Now, if I can remember how to test the coils...
 
Aren’t the OEM plug caps about 5k ohm resistance? Easy enough to check I suppose.
When I accidentally ran zero resistance after the coils, I had hard start and rich running issues.

And I would just roll with the tire you’ve already got on there now and just deal until it’s time for a new one. With the flexy frames and crappy forks, they’ll never handle as well as modern bikes anyway. I’d also much rather change the tire than the rim. But I definitely would NOT pay $165 for a steel rim. Sounds like you want the best possible handling, so go aluminum if you’re already going through all that trouble. Just me $0.02.
 
Aren’t the OEM plug caps about 5k ohm resistance? Easy enough to check I suppose.
When I accidentally ran zero resistance after the coils, I had hard start and rich running issues.

And I would just roll with the tire you’ve already got on there now and just deal until it’s time for a new one. With the flexy frames and crappy forks, they’ll never handle as well as modern bikes anyway. I’d also much rather change the tire than the rim. But I definitely would NOT pay $165 for a steel rim. Sounds like you want the best possible handling, so go aluminum if you’re already going through all that trouble. Just me $0.02.
Actually worse, closer to 10 ohm, but they are old. Some NGK were 5 ohm, so I think my cheapo HF meter is close to right. An aftermarket cap from a coil set was best at 1.2.

Thanks for talking me down off the ledge on the front wheel situation. I just wasn't expecting to go round and round with a wheel like this one. :ROFLMAO:
 
That seems low or perhaps a failing non-resistor cap meant to be used with modern R type spark plugs.

Check this for how to test your ignition:
Stan's post was what I was using. Thank you, Stan.

Ah, me. I did mean K ohms for the old OEM caps. Actually 12K and 8K, so I averaged to 10K, Probably too much, even with non-resistor plugs, huh? The used NGK LB05F caps were 5.8K and 4.8K. These would be ok with non-resistor plugs?

The Chinese generic cap was actual 1.2 ohm (meter set lowest, 200ohm). I'm guessing you mean these should be run with R type plugs?

You're saying, then that some resistance is needed, either in cap or plugs, like 5K ohm, as specified. Thanks, I didn't know that.


I'm using Stan's coil test now. Amazingly, I'm getting readings like Stan's on the original OEM coils.
 
Personally, I would get alloy rims on both ends (oh, I already do :cool:)
When I get outobie's pretty red K0 up and running, that does sound dandy.

This bike, a CL was bought kinda cheap with title but I suppose it might get sold at some point anyway. It's main purpose was to learn 350's on, as this is the first one that I really got into.
Oh, there's more in the box trailer too, plus Charles gave me his 350G, so I got to use both hands now to count em all!
 
Stan's post was what I was using. Thank you, Stan.

Ah, me. I did mean K ohms for the old OEM caps. Actually 12K and 8K, so I averaged to 10K, Probably too much, even with non-resistor plugs, huh? The used NGK LB05F caps were 5.8K and 4.8K. These would be ok with non-resistor plugs?

The Chinese generic cap was actual 1.2 ohm (meter set lowest, 200ohm). I'm guessing you mean these should be run with R type plugs?

You're saying, then that some resistance is needed, either in cap or plugs, like 5K ohm, as specified. Thanks, I didn't know that.


I'm using Stan's coil test now. Amazingly, I'm getting readings like Stan's on the original OEM coils.
Yes, the old caps have a bit too much resistance, probably from degrading over time. A lot depends on the state of your coils, but I’d use the NGK plugs (as they seem to have the correct resistance range) with original B8ES plugs (non resistance type). They’re discontinued though and superseded by BR8ES (R=resistance). If that’s all you can find (then you may as well use a better iridium plug), I’d go with non-resistance plug caps. That said, it’s probably better to have double the resistance from stock (assuming healthy coils) than none. If you have none, you get shorter spark duration which may (in my case it did) cause incomplete burn. This wasted gas, fouled the plugs, and caused hard starts and less power.
 
Yes, the old caps have a bit too much resistance, probably from degrading over time. A lot depends on the state of your coils, but I’d use the NGK plugs (as they seem to have the correct resistance range) with original B8ES plugs (non resistance type). They’re discontinued though and superseded by BR8ES (R=resistance). If that’s all you can find (then you may as well use a better iridium plug), I’d go with non-resistance plug caps. That said, it’s probably better to have double the resistance from stock (assuming healthy coils) than none. If you have none, you get shorter spark duration which may (in my case it did) cause incomplete burn. This wasted gas, fouled the plugs, and caused hard starts and less power.
Interesting, a too short spark duration. In Stan's 3rd test, he measured the secondary through the primary adding them together and got 9.6K ohm, as did mine at 10K. Would this then still be called a 5K ohm coil? Since subtracting the primary would, indeed leave 5K ohm.
I'm not sure I understand the relationship between the resistance of the plug/cap combo and the coil rating. I did see some Magna coils on 4into1 that were rated at 3K ohm, as well as the usual 5K. I don't know what that would do.
Am I to assume that the plug/cap value should be matched to the coil value? I think I understand what needs to be for our bikes to work well but the why, or theory behind it is not comprehended.
Thanks for taking the time to share with me.
 
The resistance in plug cap (or wire in automotive applications) prevents voltage 'leaking' until it has built up enough to jump the gap.
Seems you need around 13~15,000 volts to jump 0.025" under normal compression so any extra voltage delivered by coil gives a longer duration spark. (and why modern 50KV+ use 0.040" or more gap even with resistor wires and caps)
I remember reading Honda used 10K caps with copper core plug wires, until late 1970's, lower resistance only came in in 78 with resistor plugs
 
The resistance in plug cap (or wire in automotive applications) prevents voltage 'leaking' until it has built up enough to jump the gap.
Seems you need around 13~15,000 volts to jump 0.025" under normal compression so any extra voltage delivered by coil gives a longer duration spark. (and why modern 50KV+ use 0.040" or more gap even with resistor wires and caps)
I remember reading Honda used 10K caps with copper core plug wires, until late 1970's, lower resistance only came in in 78 with resistor plugs
Interesting. So those old black OEM caps that measured about 10K ohm, had not really degraded to that but were still close to then new spec, and to be used with copper wires and non-resistor plugs.
Stan cut one those old ones in half that had gone to about 30K ohm though.
 
Lots of bits getting cleaned, polished, painted and back on the bike. I used just a couple drops of Triflow on the drivers to the speedo and tach.
EA02nwcm.jpg



Also used the Triflow on the detents and slide contacts in the control switches, instead of dielectric grease this time. The last few switches and sockets I did seemed to build up a non-conductive pastiness using the grease.
The clutch and brake cables are just placed to check lengths are ok, so now time to hang em and oil em.

ZOfj38o.jpg
 
The hanging clutch cable finally started dripping oil on the floor so, in it went to the lifter. Also a new 16 tooth sprocket and the new 'Volar' chain (never heard of it but looked good) that I got in the new parts box with the Black Hole parts bike back when. Several of the plated parts looked dingy so they got sprayed with the Rustoleum silver engine paint, like the rear sprocket guard and the passenger footpegs. Looks good enough to me.
azW2evu.jpg



Scrambler had some 42mm signal stalks for a good price and the 65mm originals were pretty pitted so it's a bit narrower there than stock but it's a CL not a CB with the big wings of the 105mm stalks. The K0 had no comment.
VMDX7Dy.jpg



Scrambler's affordable replacement signals are great, not OEM Stanley, but all metal and with gaskets.
I had to make some rubber insulators for the K4 type mounts from some fuel line. No K5 grab bar with signal mounts on this one.
7Km6Mts.jpg



The wretched upside down footbar bolts that were partially stripped got re-tapped to M10x 1.25 thread (same pitch as the original 8mm) and some flanged cap bolts used. I didn't even have much enlarging of the holes in the footbar.
h5VcpcS.jpg



This is the fun part of the build IMO. I do look happy, don't I?
 
I just noticed that there are differences between models concerning the shifter types and the footpeg (footbar) position.
Here is my 73 CL K5, Mousetown, with a direct shifter and original footbar. The footpeg is directly inline with the shifter shaft on the engine. The tip of the shifter falls about center to the stator cover. Note those 3 points of reference: tip, shaft, footpeg.
hiT0Xt2.jpg



Now here is a 68-69 K0-K1 with a linkage type shifter. The tip of shifter now falls at rear edge of stator cover and the footpeg is now further back from the shaft by a couple inches.
QL2iCcf.jpg


Again, the K5's with a direct shifter have the footpeg even with the shaft. This is a K5 '73 CB350G that has the same front to back positioning, with the tip near center of stator, not at rear edge of stator. This is enough room here, because of the pipes, to remove the shifter for sprocket cover removal.
M9Uy2Ew.jpg




The '73 CL K5 is a pain to remove the sprocket cover because one must also drop the footbar to be able to then remove the shifter first.

Putting a direct shifter on an older footbar that has the footpeg to the rear of the shaft would mean the tip of the shifter might be a big stretch, unless you have big big feet or ride with swim fins.

So, the K5 s (CL or CB) footbars put the peg forward, in line with the shaft. If one then uses a linkage shifter, with it's tip further back, one will need very tiny feet or toes amputated. This may be more uncommon because most want to ditch the linkage shifters, and keep their toes.
 
Last edited:
I just noticed that there are differences between models concerning the shifter types and the footpeg (footbar) position.
Here is my 73 CL K5, Mousetown, with a direct shifter and original footbar. The footpeg is directly inline with the shifter shaft on the engine. The tip of the shifter falls about center to the stator cover. Note those 3 points of reference: tip, shaft, footpeg.
hiT0Xt2.jpg



Now here is a 68-69 K0-K1 with a linkage type shifter. The tip of shifter now falls at rear edge of stator cover and the footpeg is now further back from the shaft by a couple inches.
QL2iCcf.jpg


Again, the K5's with a direct shifter have the footpeg even with the shaft. This is a K5 '73 CB350G that has the same front to back positioning, with the tip near center of stator, not at rear edge of stator. This is enough room here, because of the pipes, to remove the shifter for sprocket cover removal.
M9Uy2Ew.jpg




The '73 CL K5 is a pain to remove the sprocket cover because one must also drop the footbar to be able to then remove the shifter first.

Putting a direct shifter on an older footbar that has the footpeg to the rear of the shaft would mean the tip of the shifter might be a big stretch, unless you have big big feet or ride with swim fins.

So, the K5 s (CL or CB) footbars put the peg forward, in line with the shaft. If one then uses a linkage shifter, with it's tip further back, one will need very tiny feet or toes amputated. This may be more uncommon because most want to ditch the linkage shifters, and keep their toes.
Actually, you can’t use the linkage shifter with that K5 peg bar because it won’t clear it. I’ve tried.

@stl360+450 Mystery solved! The peg bar you sent me must’ve been from a K5 then, which is why I couldn’t use it. I much prefer the linkage shifter (visually and functionally) and foot pegs a little further back, so they’re directly under my butt. For the CL models before K5, it’s still a PITA to remove the sprocket cover, for the same reasons. Still easier than getting to the left carb tho :)

The more you know! I had no idea that the K5s did away with the linkage type shifter and used a more cruisy peg bar.
 
Agreed and I ordered a linkage style shifter this morning.
I'm glad to have been able to share some useful info. And timely too, as I just reviewed your 350 build and realized the footbar is getting swapped.

Thank goodness Honda did not mess with the location of the welded bracket on the frame. So far, they all seem to be identical. I'm going to make a separate post on repairing that bracket and straightening the damaged frame you brought me.
 
What should I do with this now unused yellow regulator female connector? Just leave it? Do I assume the new rec/reg combo unit will regulate the AC from this yellow from the stator too, without it being connected?
XGrN4CL.jpg



The original harness was in really good shape except for just coated with dirt, so I gave it a bath in hot soapy water. The original 3 wire stator seemed ok too, no shorts or breaks.
Heck, the separate regulator and original rectifier probably works too, but I had a combo unit in the box of new parts from the PO of the Black Hole parts bike, so why not upgrade a bit?
 
It’s not used. I just folded it back on itself and taped it up and pushed it up inside the harness cover on my 450.
 
Something I forgot to mention, when changing rims 'on the cheap', check size of rear rim, (usually 1.85)
Put that on front and get 2.15 rim for rear (XS650 WM3 x18 if you want flanged, little difficult to find but some were chromed steel (Mikes XS maybe?)
I did it on Brendon's bike around 2008 or 9 while he was searching for alloy rims he liked, said it made a noticeablr difference to handling.
Changed to black alloy rims around a year later. This is from 2016 before it went to Ace Cafe in Orlando
I can't filBrendon 360 in 2016.jpg
 
That makes sense even with steel rims and stock tyre sizes. Pretty slim pickens on rims in 36 hole 2.15x18, none at 4into1.
Maybe I'm starting to get an eye for race wheels, that bike above looks good wheel-wise.
I was listening to this Dutch guy talking about his 50cc racer and they go for the skinniest tyre/rim they can find but hey, it's just a notch or two above bicycle speeds. :D
 
CMC is Brenden or Brendan Macalouso (I think, I could look it up as I did make parts for him when he was starting)
Can't remember how many hundred carb sync adapters and throttle shaft plugs.
I offered to critique his video's due to my years of working on small CB's but he just went ahead.
One of his friends (on Facebook, DTT or You Tube?) said his degree wasn't in film and photography but I remember him telling me it was (or something very similar)
Anyway, nope, Brendon Dumas.
I'll do a write up as it's kinda interesting story
Oh, I still have the Yamaha rear rim but it's been painted black.
Cant remember if the chrome was any good, Brendon wanted black wheels
 
CMC is Brenden or Brendan Macalouso (I think, I could look it up as I did make parts for him when he was starting)
Can't remember how many hundred carb sync adapters and throttle shaft plugs.
I offered to critique his video's due to my years of working on small CB's but he just went ahead.
One of his friends (on Facebook, DTT or You Tube?) said his degree wasn't in film and photography but I remember him telling me it was (or something very similar)
Anyway, nope, Brendon Dumas.
I'll do a write up as it's kinda interesting story
Oh, I still have the Yamaha rear rim but it's been painted black.
Cant remember if the chrome was any good, Brendon wanted black wheels
Those carbs look CV type ?
 
CMC is Brenden or Brendan Macalouso (I think, I could look it up as I did make parts for him when he was starting)
Can't remember how many hundred carb sync adapters and throttle shaft plugs.
I offered to critique his video's due to my years of working on small CB's but he just went ahead.
One of his friends (on Facebook, DTT or You Tube?) said his degree wasn't in film and photography but I remember him telling me it was (or something very similar)
Anyway, nope, Brendon Dumas.
I'll do a write up as it's kinda interesting story
Oh, I still have the Yamaha rear rim but it's been painted black.
Cant remember if the chrome was any good, Brendon wanted black wheels
I was curious because I knew you did a lot of stuff for him early on. Interesting that he never mentions those who helped him get his little empire started. Thanks for the clarification PJ
 
Those carbs look CV type ?
Yep, modified stock carbs and stock cam. K&N filters (RU18)
I forget if I cleaned up ports a bit but probably did.
I've had a bit of practice with modifying bikes since the 70's :ROFLMAO:
He never took it over 110~115, got a bit scared as that was the fastest he had ever been on any bike at the time.
 
Yep, modified stock carbs and stock cam. K&N filters (RU18)
I forget if I cleaned up ports a bit but probably did.
I've had a bit of practice with modifying bikes since the 70's :ROFLMAO:
He never took it over 110~115, got a bit scared as that was the fastest he had ever been on any bike at the time.
What fun that must've been. I doubt I'll ever DTT, never did.
 
What fun that must've been. I doubt I'll ever DTT, never did.
Your 400 should do it, but it might require laying down out of the wind. My 450 will almost do it with me sitting upright but falls about 5 to 8 mph short. And when you shift to 5th it doesn't go any faster sitting up, just lowers the rpm to just under the original redline.
 
Your 400 should do it, but it might require laying down out of the wind. My 450 will almost do it with me sitting upright but falls about 5 to 8 mph short. And when you shift to 5th it doesn't go any faster sitting up, just lowers the rpm to just under the original redline.
It might, that tiny fairing helps a lot, and I just got some 400F bars for it. Since I put that triangular screen (pretty laid back) on the GS750L, I caught me at 95 a couple times not really trying. Being a sole caretaker at home is likely my biggest obstacle.
 
It might, that tiny fairing helps a lot, and I just got some 400F bars for it. Since I put that triangular screen (pretty laid back) on the GS750L, I caught me at 95 a couple times not really trying. Being a sole caretaker at home is likely my biggest obstacle.
Yeah, you do have someone counting on you coming home.
 
Yeah, you do have someone counting on you coming home.
Yeah, a long walk would be bad enough. Yesterday I redlined Greenjeans in 4th and felt a loss (soft seize, valve float?), backed off in 5th, noticed coming down from 80+ mph. it was better but it got me thinking.
 
Lots of details done, like wiring and the last cables. Ready to hook up the battery and check the circuits. It will be fun just to light it up but the carbs are the next thing towards hearing it run. I had to go to Dave Swanson's build from last fall to see how both cables ran through the rubber fender loop and to be inspired by that sweet bike that is exactly the same as this one....well almost.
1SlqpQK.jpg



I'm getting tired of taking the same type pics in the same place. but as Joe Walsh said, "I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far....". :p
 
Back
Top Bottom