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Clutch feels very light CB200

Smudger

Smudger

Well-known Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2021
Total Posts
91
Total likes
1
Location
Troon, Scotland, United Kingdom
Hi Chaps

I have my cb200, it's got just over 12000 miles.

It did run and ride when I first got it

It has sat idle for almost 16 years.

Clutch was stuck, so I had disassembled. Cleaned at the plates and reassembled.
Cleaned oil filter etc
New points,plugs etc
Engine starts and runs without issue

So I was ready to put on new front sprocket and new chain and was just going to adjust clutch first.

I have put on brand new clutch cable, definitely Honda OEM.

When I go to adjust, I get the idea that either there is something wrong with clutch OR the cable is too long.

I have adjusted the clutch actuator arm so that you can just feel resistance, but even when I have taken up all the cable slack with the adjustment screw on crankcase and even using the screw on the lever. There is absolutely no tension on the lever, so not able to disengage clutch.

Has anyone else experienced such an issue?

I am not sure where to go with this at the moment

Any suggestions would be appreciated


Thanks

David



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Have you taken off the left cover recently and is it possible the little ball bearing in the actuator is missing?
 
The CB200 doesn't have the same clutch lifter mechanism as the 175, it's in the right crankcase cover. It's possible the mechanism was not correctly reassembled when he cleaned and reinstalled the clutch plates.

honda-cb200t-1975-usa-right-crankcase-cover_bighu0046e9106_5e4d.jpg
 
You can see clutch as reassembly just before case goes back on, and you can see case with clutch lifter still in place.

Looks OK to me, but???

No parts left over either

I am going to try starting engine and easing into gear just in case that will rotate clutch lifter and perhaps position it in case it's stuck at high point.
2837e2d992de061ef28230d41e9b6eea.jpg
d4b663274ceb12173ab5fb08e9a9929b.jpg


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It's the mechanism in the cover that I wonder about. I can't tell if that's a dirty rag in the cover or what, but it is covering part of the mechanism so all of it can't be seen. Did you test the movement of the arm and internal parts before putting the cover on? I'm wondering if #13, 14 and 16 aren't positioned properly, or maybe the short rod (#15) got left out?

TTcwUdp.jpg
 
ancientdad said:
It's the mechanism in the cover that I wonder about. I can't tell if that's a dirty rag in the cover or what, but it is covering part of the mechanism so all of it can't be seen. Did you test the movement of the arm and internal parts before putting the cover on? I'm wondering if #13, 14 and 16 aren't positioned properly, or maybe the short rod (#15) got left out?

TTcwUdp.jpg
Click to expand...
Hi Ancientdad

It's a rag in the cover.

I suspect you are correct about the position of 13,14 and 15.

I stupidly did not test the movement properly. I was overconfident from having done the exact same job on the other bike very recently.

Like I say, I think I will try again after engine run. It will be tiresome to disassemble again but would not take long, as I am certain that the basket and plates is assembled correctly, and if it was wrong clutch would slide, but you would not get the engage/disengage issue I have at the moment.

I should be able to do the actual adjustment with minimal reassembly ie just a couple of screws in case cover, and not having to fill with oil.

I think this is going to be lesson to self, test before putting back together, and being bold isn't always a winner.

I will let you all know how it all goes.


Thanks

David


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There are more than one clutch cable for the CB/CL200's.....DEPENDING on year/model.....
They are different, and while they can work, you need all the correct parts for that cable where they enter the right side cover.....
Pics to be added .......

For CB 200 "England" model:

cable-clutch_medium22870354010-01_c50a.jpg

For CB 200 USA

cable-compclutch_medium22870354020-01_bff2_2.jpg
Just in these two examples there is an obvious difference in free length......Plus, there was a difference in adjustment screw length, and IIRC, one version of the cable came with the adjuster as a non removable part of the cable itself....
 
Last edited:
I think my initial guess/comments that the cable is too long is a bit of a kipper rouge.

The cable only needs to move the arm about 30 degrees, which it is doing without issue.

Will have better idea by end of week, will whip the RHS case off again

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Hi chaps

Clutch update.

Case off and much faffing and checking.

My initial adjustment must have jammed the clutch lifter against the three bearing thing, however that happens in something that is meant to move.

Yes part 19 is in place.

What I have found, now know, is that you don't need to take whole right hand side off to "level up" the lifter. Completely removing the pivot arm that cable goes onto is enough to allow adjustment, and you can feel it going onto the wee hills to get movement into clutch.

I found with how I have adjusted it so far is that the adjustment is almost all the way in see picture. That probably isn't quite correct, but I will revisit later in week when I have more patience. I can probably refill with oil and actually try gear change.

I am certain that the other cb200 did not have the adjuster so far in.

Thanks for patience with a duff motor mechanic

David
eb4e86affd53748d2e545ed6b5f8bd02.jpg


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Hi Chaps

Update....

Absolutely no progress.

The parts 7,8,9 on manual. Cam plate,ball retainer and clutch lifter are all in place. However the whole lot will move easily in and out, as if they are not leaning on the clutch lifter plate.

I have now spent in excess of 30 hours on this, which I think is quite a lot for a relatively simple thing.

Should the assembly be as free as that. I can't recall exactly on the other bike but I did the adjustment on that in about half an hour.

Even if I had mixed up the plates when reassembling the whole basket, it would still take up the same gap.

Any more suggestions before I take executive action with a box of swan vestas and a can of 4 star. (A joke btw)

Thanks

David

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Having never been in the clutch side of a CB200 engine I can't really be of any help other than the parts diagrams, but it certainly seems like something is missing or out of place. I've found that staring at something over and over sometimes blinds us from the simple issue right in front of us, "can't see the forest for the trees" if you will.

Smudger said:
Any more suggestions before I take executive action with a box of swan vestas and a can of 4 star. (A joke btw)
Click to expand...

I'd be curious to hear the backstory on that.
 
ancientdad said:
Having never been in the clutch side of a CB200 engine I can't really be of any help other than the parts diagrams, but it certainly seems like something is missing or out of place. I've found that staring at something over and over sometimes blinds us from the simple issue right in front of us, "can't see the forest for the trees" if you will.



I'd be curious to hear the backstory on that.
Click to expand...
Swan vestas is a brand of matches
4 star is top octane leaded petrol

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Might be completely off here, but what about the lever side of the clutch cable? I only say that because I once made the mistake of assembling a clutch lever without the stopping thing (the one you can screw in and out) and the whole cable was going in and out with the lever...I doubt that might be the issue, but as ancientdad says, sometimes you can focus so much on something that you miss something obvious

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Pitzky said:
Might be completely off here, but what about the lever side of the clutch cable? I only say that because I once made the mistake of assembling a clutch lever without the stopping thing (the one you can screw in and out) and the whole cable was going in and out with the lever...I doubt that might be the issue, but as ancientdad says, sometimes you can focus so much on something that you miss something obvious

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Click to expand...
Nevermind, you said you adjusted the screw on the lever...sorry I already forgot [emoji38]

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Smudger said:
Swan vestas is a brand of matches
4 star is top octane leaded petrol

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Click to expand...

I suspected it was along those lines, I could find the brand of matches but not the 4 star reference. I get it.
 
I am very very slow with trying to get this bike to work, weather plays it's part. I am now going to take clutch apart yet again, and this time actually check all the plates for tolerance both friction and metal, I also will check the springs too. On the workshop manual I can find tolerance for the springs and for friction plates, but for the metal plates I can only see something referring to warp. Am I yet again just being a dumpling. I have also sourced a NOS clutch cable to no excuses for reproduction not being accurate.

I also have a confession. I bought a 2008 KTM 690 which is on the road so I can at least get back out on the road whilst I still work on the Honda. Please forgive me

Cheers

David

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Smudger said:
I am very very slow with trying to get this bike to work, weather plays it's part. I am now going to take clutch apart yet again, and this time actually check all the plates for tolerance both friction and metal, I also will check the springs too. On the workshop manual I can find tolerance for the springs and for friction plates, but for the metal plates I can only see something referring to warp. Am I yet again just being a dumpling. I have also sourced a NOS clutch cable to no excuses for reproduction not being accurate.

I also have a confession. I bought a 2008 KTM 690 which is on the road so I can at least get back out on the road whilst I still work on the Honda. Please forgive me

Cheers

David

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I can't speak to your "dumplingness" :) but you are entitled to work on your vintage Honda twin at whatever pace you see fit. The fact that you have another bike to ride certainly could play a part.

The steel plates rarely warp and if there is any possibility you'll likely see they've been blued a bit from heat causing it. If they look clean and sit flat on a known flat surface you should be fine. With a NOS cable, all the proper parts present and correctly assembled and the clutch adjusted correctly, it should work as designed. We'll be here when you get to it.
 
Smudger said:
I am very very slow with trying to get this bike to work, weather plays it's part. I am now going to take clutch apart yet again, and this time actually check all the plates for tolerance both friction and metal, I also will check the springs too. On the workshop manual I can find tolerance for the springs and for friction plates, but for the metal plates I can only see something referring to warp. Am I yet again just being a dumpling. I have also sourced a NOS clutch cable to no excuses for reproduction not being accurate.

I also have a confession. I bought a 2008 KTM 690 which is on the road so I can at least get back out on the road whilst I still work on the Honda. Please forgive me

Cheers

David

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Any updates Smudger? We currently have my Honda CB200 Olive completely stripped down, so can compare our clutch to yours, if needed.

Irene
 
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