Home stretch 68 CB350 K0 plus....

ballbearian

ballbearian

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Outobie parked his build 8 years ago with a couple issues. Now it's me to get it across the finish line.

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Randy Marbles did the paint and tank liner so not sure what liner it is, but I need to clean the tank. Paint damage is not an option.


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I'm thinking the BiltHamber Deox-C, unless a better suggestion.
The 722 carbs need it too.

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30 inch bars on it, instead of 28 like my K5. This headlamp may be bigger too.

I'm just numb with it sitting in my garage with good, bad and ugly all around it. I guess the neighborhood is changing.
 
Shore is purdy... :) since it isn't a complete K0, one thing I'd do just for the improvement it brings is find the later kickstart lever that pivots at the bottom, they tuck away so much better. And as far as I can tell from the pics, that headlight is original.
 
ancientdad said:
Shore is purdy... :) since it isn't a complete K0, one thing I'd do just for the improvement it brings is find the later kickstart lever that pivots at the bottom, they tuck away so much better. And as far as I can tell from the pics, that headlight is original.
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It's a K4 motor so... That's an idea though.
I wasn't sure if the headlight was a 'best of' liberty. 'Best of' is cool with me.

This is Ashimoto's photo reference

www.dropbox.com

CB350K0 Prototype

Shared with Dropbox
www.dropbox.com www.dropbox.com
 
I'm glad to see you got it home alright. It will be interesting to follow as you investigate and correct the oiling issue.

I see that the inside of the tank has collected some junk, but the liner could still be fine. Are you planning to remove the liner or just rinse out the crud?
 
stl360+450 said:
I'm glad to see you got it home alright. It will be interesting to follow as you investigate and correct the oiling issue.

I see that the inside of the tank has collected some junk, but the liner could still be fine. Are you planning to remove the liner or just rinse out the crud?
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An 8 year mystery liner test with a half tank of ethanol. We'll see, I suppose.
 
I'm working with Deox-C now and like it but I know that Evapo Rust will look after fuel deposits so if I was doing it I would use the Evapo. It also works on fuel deposits inside float bowls but just fill the float bowl, no immersion.

The cap will rust quickly after cleaning it, I have taken apart the later hinged cap and floated a coat of solder over it but those caps are avaialable and replacement may be best.
 
Deox-C won't hurt the paint or chrome. For the cap use Atom-Mac after the Deox and it should be good.
For the carbs it's worth a shot to see if the Deox will handle it, I haven't tried that.
 
I'll be following this one! Are those mufflers HM344 or HM317 and are they clamped or welded to the headers?
 
ballbearian said:
Outobie parked his build 8 years ago with a couple issues. Now it's me to get it across the finish line.

bAcQnx3.jpg


Randy Marbles did the paint and tank liner so not sure what liner it is, but I need to clean the tank. Paint damage is not an option.


IjBmHnn.jpg

FUjfvlW.jpg


I'm thinking the BiltHamber Deox-C, unless a better suggestion.
The 722 carbs need it too.

7ZwB5Ub.jpg


30 inch bars on it, instead of 28 like my K5. This headlamp may be bigger too.

I'm just numb with it sitting in my garage with good, bad and ugly all around it. I guess the neighborhood is changing.
Click to expand...


I wonder if that gas cap is specific to the '68 tank? I have a couple of '69 caps and they are not domed internally like the one above.
 
ausman1000 said:
I wonder if that gas cap is specific to the '68 tank? I have a couple of '69 caps and they are not domed internally like the one above.
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He said it was one of the NOS items (not now). Yours looks like one of the thinner grip edge types, like the Dreams (flat inside also).

Blue Dream CA78

The 350 FSM calls for silicone grease. I used plumber's grease from Ace Hardware on my CL350 sprag clutch. Just recently, I used Dielectric grease, which is also silicone grease, for my SL350. Yeah, like I ever read a manual unless I absolutely have to... :lol: so I've never seen that passage...
www.vintagehondatwins.com www.vintagehondatwins.com
 
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ancientdad said:
Shore is purdy... :) since it isn't a complete K0, one thing I'd do just for the improvement it brings is find the later kickstart lever that pivots at the bottom, they tuck away so much better. And as far as I can tell from the pics, that headlight is original.
Click to expand...
He put a NOS kicker on but I have a nice later one from my parts motor that would be good on it. The OEM sure do stick out a bunch.
Also saw that headlamp has a removable bulb (P15D-25-1 base), I would have thought all the US market bikes had sealed beams.
 
ausman1000 said:
...and yes that is the original cork gasket!
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I've used compressed air to blow apart these types (be careful, wrap in towel) then can clean out the rubber sealing cup inside. Surprising how much crap is inside these and a total cleanout was the only way to prevent repeated plugging the vent.

post #573 from Blue Dream build

Blue Dream CA78

The 350 FSM calls for silicone grease. I used plumber's grease from Ace Hardware on my CL350 sprag clutch. Just recently, I used Dielectric grease, which is also silicone grease, for my SL350. Yeah, like I ever read a manual unless I absolutely have to... :lol: so I've never seen that passage...
www.vintagehondatwins.com www.vintagehondatwins.com
 
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More pics of stuff that was included.
The tool kit had 3 Honda wrenches and a blue bag. Also 3 spark plug wrenches that don't fit anything, an 18mm folder and 2 5/8" with 10mm male hex drives ??? and a pair of worn old pliers. 4 out 8, Ok.

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Side cover gasket kit, screws for same, seal kit, NOS side cover and a used one. Rubber sealing ball and NOS 19mm late oil pump, hmmm...
I don't know why the pair of shift mech stops are there.

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Original K0 hubs (with the extra blind holes). A project 450 drum front wheel that hit a snag due to 40 hole rim nipple angle issues. A wheels worth of misc. spokes (not sure if useable sizes), A modified 19" NOS front fender, maybe later 450 ???...
A NOS speedo cable for this project wheel.

I'll probably just rebuild the wheels that are on the bike with the K0 hubs and spokes and brakes stuff.

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Oh, and 3 owner's manuals, all have the big wiring diagram, a CL K4, a CB K3 and a SL350 K1 (which is up for grabs).

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Never hurts to have spare pizza cutters, especially with a garage full of various CB and CL350 projects. Lots of nice spares — I expect the pump and ball were acquired after the oiling issue was encountered. Nice of outobie to set you up for the potential repair!
 
I've seen much nastier gas, it wasn't gag worthy at least, and did drain through the petcock, which is ex-NOS now for sure.
The carbs were dry at the drains but surprised to find a steel JIS 6x1 with an Oring on one bowl. Maybe he did drain the carbs before bedtime.
Maybe I'll hang the test tank and see if they flush and fill Ok.

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I unplugged the mystery coils and pulled the plugs, also unplugged the Pamco ignition.

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The Pamco ignition

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Lastly pulled the oil filter cover and the kickstart produced a squirt from the lower hole in the case. The oil pump must work but is it sending up to the upper end?

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Next is to jumper the starter and watch the tell tale hole near the points end cam support bearing.
I'll try to remember to ask John if he has heard of CrazyPJ's oil transfer mod.
 
stl360+450 said:
Never hurts to have spare pizza cutters, especially with a garage full of various CB and CL350 projects. Lots of nice spares — I expect the pump and ball were acquired after the oiling issue was encountered. Nice of outobie to set you up for the potential repair!
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The parts and especially the info he provided are greatly appreciated. After an 8 year hiatus, I'm surprised at how much detail he remembered. The pump and the ball would be an engine out job, I think, and might have been his buzz-kill then. He also asked if I had an extra engine I could swap, hmmm...

I'll stick with Gump here, "Life's a bowl of cherries..."

I do have an extra engine..... I may as well stick it in here. (Warning- may not be fit for some viewers, contains evidence of adolescent Teret's syndrome rehab (long story there))

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Early one bush kickstart shaft and lower case.

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Not sure of cam or rocker type here, but definite damage to left exhaust lobe and some on R Ex lobe too. Rockers seem better.
 
That's an overdose of blue silicone. You might try turning the engine over with the oil filter cover off to see if the pump brings oil to the hole that goes to the cover and then to the filter cup before you button it up to check flow to the top end.
 
ancientdad said:
That's an overdose of blue silicone. You might try turning the engine over with the oil filter cover off to see if the pump brings oil to the hole that goes to the cover and then to the filter cup before you button it up to check flow to the top end.
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I did with the kicker. See the oil that came from that visible hole.
 
ballbearian said:
I did with the kicker. See the oil that came from that visible hole.
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Good, so it seems the pump has output. And with the 350 you don't have the little tangs on the valve that can be assembled incorrectly by a longtime Honda mechanic who isn't paying complete attention... :ROFLMAO:
 
ancientdad said:
Good, so it seems the pump has output. And with the 350 you don't have the little tangs on the valve that can be assembled incorrectly by a longtime Honda mechanic who isn't paying complete attention... :ROFLMAO:
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Or newb rubes like me. I wonder if I should put air pressure up the hole you can't see, the upper hole to everything.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
Definitely a Fat cam. The rockers should NOT have 312 markings, just blank with a casting number. Also a raised bump above the cam pad
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A few minutes were spent with John explaining " he wasn't a fat cam guy", because he likes more mid range, even for his racers, I guess.

This ugly motor is from my parts bike (donor frame for Mousetown), it's a CL350E-205xxxx botched seizure fix by youth (hence blackout everything).
 
That cam is worth fixing as are the rockers. I think a lot of the fat cam being better is folklore rather than fact. Honda was actively making changes to produce a better rideable engine with this engine series.
I'll take the SL350K1 owners manual off your hands, PM how much to send.
 
LongDistanceRider said:
That cam is worth fixing as are the rockers. I think a lot of the fat cam being better is folklore rather than fact. Honda was actively making changes to produce a better rideable engine with this engine series.
I'll take the SL350K1 owners manual off your hands, PM how much to send.
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Thanks for the assessment, it's just spare at this point. I broke it down as a tutorial on 350 before I get into Mousetown's motor.

My Grandad said," Your money's useless here", I say, " what goes around comes around". I'll get it in the mail.
 
Boomer343 said:
I would pull the rhs cover and use a dental probe to check if the ball is in place and look for other debris. You could also probe the hole that goes up to the head.
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Since it's still got oil and cover on, I was wondering if anything could be learned from cranking with starter and or compressed air in the upper cover hole.
I still might not know exactly where or how to put the ball in.
 
To put the ball in you have to split the cases ...

Using air won't show much at either end since the same galleries feed the transmission and cam. Blowing in the cover bolt hole the air will just go into the cam area.

You could pull the LHS cover and using a syringe push oil into the cover bolt hole see if any flows down to the case.

On both side covers I have seen torn gaskets that caused low oil flow to the head.
 
stl360+450 said:
What's up with the spokes on that wheel? They look kinked at the end where they go through the rim.

Owner's Manuals are cool. I can't believe you would put the SL350 manual up for grabs when you should really be looking for an SL350 to go with it.
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That wheel is a custom build using a large DLS drum from a CB450 laced to a 1.60 width rim (standard CB350 width). All 350's use 36 spoke patterns but the 450 has 40 holes. It was difficult to source a 40 hole in 1.60x18 and this rim was drilled for smaller diameter spool hubs, like for disc brakes, thus the holes are closer to radii of wheel center than angled.
I think the nipple hole angle could be corrected with a small diamond straight burr from a dremel without damaging the chrome much (this was John's concern) but I've got other issues on the bike for now, so it's wall art till then.
 
If John is Outobie then I would certainly not put myself in league with him. Thanks, but I’m a total noob with exactly 1 cb350 rebuild under my belt lol. And it’s no beautiful restoration like many on here. It’s a (b)rat bike ha!

Edit:meant to quote ballbarian
 
Boomer343 said:
To put the ball in you have to split the cases ...

Using air won't show much at either end since the same galleries feed the transmission and cam. Blowing in the cover bolt hole the air will just go into the cam area.

You could pull the LHS cover and using a syringe push oil into the cover bolt hole see if any flows down to the case.

On both side covers I have seen torn gaskets that caused low oil flow to the head.
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I'm trying to do anything I can before pulling the motor. The compressed air in the upper side cover hole did make a small breeze. I then jumped the starter and after about a minute total, got a small oil flow pulsing out the tell tale hole near the points. The pulses advanced up my 1/8" clear tubing about an 1/8" at a time. I understand the oil feed branches off to tranny and crank before it's rise up the stud channel (I did study the FSM diagram), so perhaps the volume I saw was not deficient.
I will, now pull the side covers to probe for the sealing ball and to blow the right to left upper crankcase channel, as well as checking side cover gaskets for leaks at those junctions.
John supplied a NOS 19mm oil pump, So I will put that in. Hopefully the rubber ball is there already. It would be a shame to pull the motor just to put that in.
Lastly, I will pull the rocker screw in covers and observe and estimate if oil is flowing on each. I did this on my 305 build and it gave me great comfort.

Thanks, guys, for the helpful direction here!
 
RockReef said:
If John is Outobie then I would certainly not put myself in league with him. Thanks, but I’m a total noob with exactly 1 cb350 rebuild under my belt lol. And it’s no beautiful restoration like many on here. It’s a (b)rat bike ha!

Edit:meant to quote ballbarian
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Yes, John is outobie. I too, feel like I accidently enrolled in the smart kids class! My first 350 was supposed to be my Mousetown build but haven't opened her motor up yet. I did open the nasty parts bike motor (blackhole, new name) to learn the terrain.
My normal barn finds get the rattle can roustabout treatment so this will be a nail biter to clean the tank. I still think, I've lost my marbles on this Randy Marbles paint!
 
ballbearian said:
. . . John supplied a NOS 19mm oil pump, So I will put that in. Hopefully the rubber ball is there already. It would be a shame to pull the motor just to put that in.
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Just so you know, John (outobie) is the person from whom I first learned about the black ball, about 12 years ago. He was sort of fanatical about making sure it was in place on any build he did. It would have been a major oversight on his part to have left it out. The odds are well in your favor that it is installed as it should be.

In November, 2011, he said, "it's a small rubber ball that seals a casting hole in the oil feed passage casting...the only way to get to it is to split the cases. if you forget to install it, you will loose (sic) oil pressure as it bleeds out through that hole and reduces the volume of oil reaching the head. A racer I knew from my track days built fast motors that always blew up because he didn't know about this seal. ;) shhhh"

Oops! My bad. I just read outobie's sale ad for your bike, where he said that he was not the one who built the engine and that he suspects the black ball may be missing.
 
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Good news is that one can turn the entire engine upside down on the bench & split off the bottom case, right? Or does the crank have to come out?

Are there different size oil pumps for the 350? Asking because ballbearian specifically stated 19mm.
 
RockReef said:
Good news is that one can turn the entire engine upside down on the bench & split off the bottom case, right? Or does the crank have to come out?
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Yes, with the crankcase covers, clutch and oil pump removed you can flip the engine and remove the lower case.

RockReef said:
Are there different size oil pumps for the 350? Asking because ballbearian specifically stated 19mm.
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I'm wondering that myself because I know there was an early, smaller pump for the 450 but I was not aware of any size change in the 350 pumps. Haven't taken the time to look it up though.
 
ancientdad said:
Yes, with the crankcase covers, clutch and oil pump removed you can flip the engine and remove the lower case.


I'm wondering that myself because I know there was an early, smaller pump for the 450 but I was not aware of any size change in the 350 pumps. Haven't taken the time to look it up though.
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John said there was an early pump that was 17mm and also Honda changed from steel bodies and alloy plunger to alloy body with steel plunger, in addition to upping the volume/bore to 19mm.

RockReef is right on the flip and remove lower case only because the crank can stay in the upper to just put a rubber ball in.

I'll need to clear the deck in the shop and get a helper to remove the motor if it comes to that.

Sorry, fxray, on not being clear on the builder not actually being outobie. He bought another bike (which he sold) with this motor but knew the experienced Triumph guy who built it and felt confident that it was a good job, at the time. This K4 motor has ART pistons, 1st oversize and a stock cam that Megacycle re-welded and ground, unsure if the valves are stock, at this time.
 
ballbearian said:
John said there was an early pump that was 17mm and also Honda changed from steel bodies and alloy plunger to alloy body with steel plunger, in addition to upping the volume/bore to 19mm.
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Interesting, so the 350 went through the same thing the 450 engine did with an improved pump later.
 
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